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 Post subject: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150cm)
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Hey guys, I'm new to quiet computing and PC building in general. I'm looking to do my first build with the Lian Li PC-Q10, but I'm having trouble finding PSUs that are around 400-500 W, will fit the case (max length is 150 cm), are quiet, and are available in the US right now. I'm also hoping to find something that is modular and not fanless.

I was toying with the idea of trying to shove a Corsair RM550x (which is 160 cm long) in there, as this build shows you can fit a PSU of that length in this case, but I'd prefer not to take chances.

I checked out the recommended PSUs page but nothing I found fits the bill. If you guys could help me out that would be awesome.

(First post! Yay!)


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:00 pm 
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The Silverstone ST55F-G 550W is probably what you are looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:44 pm 
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pokedoll wrote:
Hey guys, I'm new to quiet computing and PC building in general. I'm looking to do my first build with the Lian Li PC-Q10, but I'm having trouble finding PSUs that are around 400-500 W, will fit the case (max length is 150 cm), are quiet, and are available in the US right now. I'm also hoping to find something that is modular and not fanless.

Did you mean not fanless or even not hybrid/semi-fanless too?
Because you may use the EVGA SuperNOVA 550GS (but the 650 has longer fanless operation), or go with compact units as either an SFX unit like the Corsair SF450, or an SFX-L PSU like the Silverstone SX500-LG.

BTW, seemingly you have room to grow of about 1cm from there:

Image


pokedoll wrote:
(First post! Yay!)

Welcome to SPCR!

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:41 am 
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lodestar wrote:
The Silverstone ST55F-G 550W is probably what you are looking for.

It *might* be not that quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:00 am 
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Ah yes, those TechPowerUp results "...obtained at 39-45°C ambient..." so hardly representative of normal use.

I think this graph from Silverstone is probably more helpful

Image

Silverstone obviously don't do semi-passive. Whether a 120mm PSU fan running at 800 rpm is an issue or not probably depends on your own definition of "quiet".


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:12 am 
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lodestar wrote:
Ah yes, those TechPowerUp results "...obtained at 39-45°C ambient..." so hardly representative of normal use.

Geez, the arrogance of your statement (how good are you at PSU testing?) is hardly on par with your ignorance: set aside you're talking about a possible Q10 mounting (19lt with no PSU intake), the noise graph is taken "...between 28 and 32°C...".

The only (more serious) doubts are about revised versions (though often Silverstone worsen rather than improve their later versions) and the smaller power rating (of the 550W model), which more than once affected fan rating (didn't check) and fan controller behaviour (cannot check).


lodestar wrote:
Whether a 120mm PSU fan running at 800 rpm is an issue or not probably depends on your own definition of "quiet".

No, it doesn't: even at those 800rpm, a 120mm fan IS noticeable (particularly THAT fan).

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:45 am 
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YMMV/
had that silverstone SFX PSU, sent it back due to its fan "rumbling" as it was constantly turning on and off every minute or 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:23 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
...how good are you at PSU testing?
Absolutely no good at all. But that's the point I buy and use PSUs so I need data that's relevant to me. Data obtained from ambient temperatures of 39 to 45C or even for that matter 28 to 32C for my purposes is useless. On the other hand the SPCR power supply reviews conducted at an ambient temperature of something like 21C are credible.
quest_for_silence wrote:
...No, it doesn't: even at those 800rpm, a 120mm fan IS noticeable (particularly THAT fan)..
Actually the minimum speed is 600 rpm, not 800 rpm. I don't know what you mean by THAT fan. I assume it would be one of the Adda ball bearing fans that is/was widely fitted to many different makes of PSU. You can say that it IS noticeable but that's just by your standards. Other people might say it's quiet or even silent. It's an issue of perception not fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:19 am 
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xan_user wrote:
had that silverstone SFX PSU.

Did you send it back for RMA procedure, or did you change it with another PSU?


lodestar wrote:
or even for that matter 28 to 32C for my purposes is useless.

...and how much hot do you think/know your rig is?


lodestar wrote:
On the other hand the SPCR power supply reviews conducted at an ambient temperature of something like 21C are credible.

SPCR performed two noise tests (as well as TPU, in some respects): inside the hotbox (really hot) and out of the hotbox.
And MikeC always pointed out the first set as more representative of some scenarios (like top mounted PSUs).


lodestar wrote:
Actually the minimum speed is 600 rpm, not 800 rpm.

Do you think you're teasing at the kindergarten, lodestar? If you ask about an 800rpm fan, I answer about an 800rpm fan. So what?

Set aside that, it doesn't even worth how much the minimum speed might be or not: a fact IS that unit WAS four (not one, not two, not three, but four) notches above the TPU noise floor, which was already highish.
Another fact IS that you didn't bring any measures/records of the fan speed, perhaps just some marketing printed/extrapolated on/from a cardboard box, or maybe even worst, from other PSUs with the same fan (note: I've seen a smidgen less than 1000rpm minimum speed for that Silverstone PSU even on another website).


lodestar wrote:
You can say that it IS noticeable but that's just by your standards. Other people might say it's quiet or even silent. It's an issue of perception not fact.

The only issue by my standard is that sometimes you're nattering just for shits and giggles, regardless of what you actually advice here on SPCR.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:04 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
xan_user wrote:
had that silverstone SFX PSU.

Did you send it back for RMA procedure, or did you change it with another PSU?

returned it and got;
http://www.highpower-tech.com/CA/produc ... 0707151110

fan stays on all the time (which i prefer) -not silent, but quiet enough for my noise floor.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:06 am 
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On the fanless/semi-passive question: I want to avoid fanless because it looks like having a passive PSU would affect the airflow in this case (correct me if I'm wrong!) I would consider semi-passive

Also I haven't looked much into the SFX supplies because I was under the impression that they tend to be louder.

I looked into the SuperNova GS but haven't heard much about it on the noise side. Is it quiet?

quest_for_silence wrote:
Welcome to SPCR!


Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:17 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
The only issue by my standard is that sometimes you're nattering just for shits and giggles, regardless of what you actually advice here on SPCR.
Absolutely not, I am just here to learn.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:23 am 
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lodestar wrote:
Absolutely not, I am just here to learn.

Then seemingly you forgot some basic SPCR lessons...

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:28 am 
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...which are?


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 9:20 am 
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xan_user wrote:
returned it

Ok: I asked because I was curious to know whether it was defective or not (there's a chance it was defective, because I noticed a similar odd behaviour on defective Super Flower and Seasonic units with semi-passive controllers).


xan_user wrote:
and got;
http://www.highpower-tech.com/CA/produc ... 0707151110

fan stays on all the time (which i prefer) -not silent, but quiet enough for my noise floor.

It should be the same unit, but without the semi-passive behaviour (as used by Chieftec and Sharkoon too).


lodestar wrote:
...which are?

Do you really want to fish for arguments that way? To not trust marketing claims? That one about the SPCR hot box PSU testing? Which is the SPL/RPM range to call something quiet? How noticeable are ball bearings? The different thermals of small and large enclosures? I guess something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:36 am 
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Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:45 am 
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You're welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:09 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Ok: I asked because I was curious to know whether it was defective or not (there's a chance it was defective, because I noticed a similar odd behaviour on defective Super Flower and Seasonic units with semi-passive controllers).

I found more than a few similar complaints about the noise of the fan cycling on and off with that semi passive silvestone.

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:51 am 
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pokedoll wrote:
On the fanless/semi-passive question: I want to avoid fanless because it looks like having a passive PSU would affect the airflow in this case (correct me if I'm wrong!) I would consider semi-passive

I'm not sure about what you meant, if you're thinking to heat evacuation, passive and semi-passive are almost the same, in this respect: when the fan is not spinning, the PSU cannot play an active exhaust role.

On the other hand, I don't think it's fully correct to force/let the PSU act as sort of an exhaust fan, at least because you're heating up the PSU that way: set aside reliability concerns, to not speed up its fan you have to rely upon heat-resilient PSUs, there are a few, and the quality ones usually are longer than 150mm.

If you were thinking to other aspects, feel free to explain them furtherly: take also note that the complete specs of your upcoming build would help to advice, a lot (we need to estimate the actual power draw and heat build up).


pokedoll wrote:
Also I haven't looked much into the SFX supplies because I was under the impression that they tend to be louder.

Broadly speaking, it's true: on the other hand, if you're going to comply to the specified clearance, lots of the available ATX PSUs are likely not the quietest ones, so YMMV. The new SF450 by Corsair might be worthwhile in this respect, but that's far from certain.

Among ATX shy casing units, come to mind the Cooler Master G450M / G550M and the Corsair CS-450M / CS-550M, which offer a rather heat-resilient but relaxed fan profile: the main drawback is their questionable parts selection (mainly low tier caps), which doesn't cope well with heath. Another questionable aspect is relevant availability in North America (you didn't stated your location, IIRC). The CM GM series is also noticeably less efficient than 80 Plus gold-rated competitors.
Another option is the Cooler Master V450S / V550S, which offer a modern topology and high efficiency, with better grade components and a slightly more conservative (aggressive) fan controller than the above mentioned PSUs. Relevant main drawback is they're EOL and (as above) north american market availability: they've been replaced by the new, fully modular, Cooler Master V550, with a similar fan profile at highish temperature.

On the other hand, with 160mm units like Corsair RM550x or Be Quiet E10 500W CM you should play a lot safer, noise wise.


pokedoll wrote:
I looked into the SuperNova GS but haven't heard much about it on the noise side. Is it quiet?

In your upcoming setup, it *might* be enough quiet: available data are not completely unambiguous in this respect.

According to JonnyGURU.com up to 31-32°C the GS lineup should warrant a fanless operation range of more than 150W for the 550W model (probably more than 200W), and of about 270W for the 650W unit; PC Perspective seems to support those data, with a very low noise increase up to 50% of the rated power and a consistent fanless operation range, particularly at lower internal temp (PC Perspective test PSU in the 23-40°C range). On the contrary Aris Mpitziopoulos reviews seemingly beg to differ: though at higher temperature he found the 550W to be enough quiet up to 220W, while rather quiet up to 260W was the 650W unit, differently from all the other reviewers at lower temperature he recorded a very short fanless operation range for both the 550W and the 650W units.
A last information source is KitGuru, which stated a very low noise (for their standards) up to about 270W for the 650W model: unfortunately their operating temperature to me is unclear, anything between 25°C and 35°C I suppose.

All in all, the best I can say about a GS inside a PC-Q10 is that "it might be quiet" (though it's expected to be quieter than a Silverstone Strider Gold 550W in most situations, even at 22°C).

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 9:53 am 
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Oops it wasn't really clear in the first post but I'm in the US.

My planed build:
CPU: Intel i5-6500
CPU Cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B
Mobo: ASRock H170M-ITX/ac
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 250GB
Graphics: MSI GeForce GTX 970
Case: Lian-Li PC-Q10
Fan: Scythe Slip Stream SY1225DB12M-P

It's gaming-oriented so I've got the heat and noise from that graphics card to worry about

quest_for_silence wrote:
I'm not sure about what you meant, if you're thinking to heat evacuation, passive and semi-passive are almost the same, in this respect: when the fan is not spinning, the PSU cannot play an active exhaust role.

On the other hand, I don't think it's fully correct to force/let the PSU act as sort of an exhaust fan, at least because you're heating up the PSU that way: set aside reliability concerns, to not speed up its fan you have to rely upon heat-resilient PSUs, there are a few, and the quality ones usually are longer than 150mm.


I suppose heat evacuation is what you'd call it. I was concerned about going fanless because of the blurb in SPCR's PSU recommendations page, specifically:

Quote:
Due to the reduced airflow not only in the PSU but also through the system, thermal management is a serious consideration for successful use of fanless PSUs.


And since the case I'm going for is pretty small I don't want to put any unnecessary restrictions on airflow. I'm less concerned about cooling at idle, but I don't want things overheating while gaming, which is why I'd be more interested in semi-passive than full passive PSUs.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Broadly speaking, it's true: on the other hand, if you're going to comply to the specified clearance, lots of the available ATX PSUs are likely not the quietest ones, so YMMV. The new SF450 by Corsair might be worthwhile in this respect, but that's far from certain.


That's about what I expected. I think I'll look into the Corsair SF450 and Cooler Master V550 since those sound promising. The EVGA GS series, on the other hand, I'm not comfortable with the uncertainty of how it'll sound outside its fanless range, so I think I'll pass

Thanks for all your help so far!


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 12:36 pm 
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pokedoll wrote:
CPU: Intel i5-6500
CPU Cooler: Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B

Why? That's an underdog in your scenario.
I'd look if something more substantial may fit.


pokedoll wrote:
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2133

A single channel setup doesn't look a smart move.


pokedoll wrote:
recommendations page, specifically:

Quote:
Due to the reduced airflow not only in the PSU but also through the system, thermal management is a serious consideration for successful use of fanless PSUs.


And since the case I'm going for is pretty small I don't want to put any unnecessary restrictions on airflow.

I guess there's a misunderstanding: as said in that section "...Before opting for a fanless PSU, we urge you to read all the fanless PSU reviews...", because those may give you a better point of view (or a least the http://www.silentpcreview.com/fanless-psu-build-guide ).

Moreover the PC-Q10 has not an ATX mount, but a 90 DEGREE ROTATED one. Providing it fits, either a 400/460/520W Seasonic/Silverstone/XFX or a 500W Rosewill looks like well suited for a compact, about 230W gaming rig like your planned one.


pokedoll wrote:
The EVGA GS series, on the other hand, I'm not comfortable with the uncertainty of how it'll sound outside its fanless range, so I think I'll pass

That looks like another possible misunderstanding. Outside the fanless range those GS are either better than other options, or about on par with them: did you actually checked the WORST fan speed for about 220-260W? 850-870rpm at 40-41°C: not that bad. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:43 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Why? That's an underdog in your scenario.
I'd look if something more substantial may fit.

Because the official cooler height limit on the case is 140 mm, and I'd like something under that to avoid bending the plexiglass outward as in SPCR's build. I might swap that out for one of the small Noctua towers if I decide to spend more money.

quest_for_silence wrote:
A single channel setup doesn't look a smart move.

Why's that? It doesn't seem like dual channel really impacts gaming that much, which is the intended purpose of this build, and single channel leaves room for more RAM later.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Moreover the PC-Q10 has not an ATX mount, but a 90 DEGREE ROTATED one. Providing it fits, either a 400/460/520W Seasonic/Silverstone/XFX or a 500W Rosewill looks like well suited for a compact, about 230W gaming rig like your planned one.

Okay I see what you're saying about the fanless PSUs, thanks. Out of curiosity, why does the 90 degree rotation matter for planning?

quest_for_silence wrote:
That looks like another possible misunderstanding. Outside the fanless range those GS are either better than other options, or about on par with them: did you actually checked the WORST fan speed for about 220-260W? 850-870rpm at 40-41°C: not that bad. :wink:

Alright I just took a better look at the speeds and noise levels for it, and it's not too bad. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that it wasn't the quietest, but that might be at heavier loads, which like you pointed out shouldn't be a problem with this build.


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 Post subject: Re: Quiet ~500W PSU that will fit the Lian Li PC-Q10? (≤150c
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 10:12 pm 
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pokedoll wrote:
Because the official cooler height limit on the case is 140 mm, and I'd like something under that to avoid bending the plexiglass outward as in SPCR's build.

Somehow I got the feeling that you're a bit too afraid of your first build: at least, often experienced builders are not that annoyed by a tough fit (as there's a small but important difference between "tough to fit" and "unfit"), and you may have to deal with at least two-three potential tight fits there (the PSU, the CPU cooler and the GPU).

Set aside that, do what you think best, but I will to point you out some considerations:

  1. I don't know if it's a language barrier/"false friend" but to me "to bulge" is not "to bend";
  2. from the SPCR review/photo is crystal clear that Lian Li wrongly declared the CPU cooler height clearance;
  3. how many better (than both the Big Shuriken and the 92mm Noctua towers) coolers are there, between the 161mm tall Kotetsu (which slightly presses) and the wrong 140mm official Lian Li clearance? Probably not a helluvalot, but there are some;
  4. the suggested Macho Direct (providing it clears the RAM, the rear fan and the GPU, I didn't actually checked) is about 3mm shorter than a Kotetsu, definitely an already decisive difference (to not press/bulge).



pokedoll wrote:
Why's that? It doesn't seem like dual channel really impacts gaming that much, which is the intended purpose of this build, and single channel leaves room for more RAM later.

It didn't look a smart move just because a dual-channel kit doubles the bandwidth between the CPU and RAM; said that, I can't help specifically about gaming: if you know it isn't important, I guess it's just a matter of costs. About expandability, though it's good to have room to grow, mixing up RAM more than once leaded to compatibility hiccups, so take care also of this aspect.


pokedoll wrote:
Out of curiosity, why does the 90 degree rotation matter for planning?

Because in an ATX tower the PSU mounting deals with a front to back forced flow (and the sentence you quoted was referring mostly to that scenario), and because in an ATX mounting all the major heat sources (GPU, CPU and PSU) are vertically adjacent along a straight natural convection path (an arrangement you don't have with a 90 degree rotation of the PSU mounting).


pokedoll wrote:
I remembered reading somewhere that it wasn't the quietest, but that might be at heavier loads

Any fanned, Seasonic-built PSU is loud when heavily taxed: Seasonic has a conservative cooling approach, for reliability reasons.

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