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 Post subject: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:19 am 
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My HX850 is now too noticeable since I've gone from 280X+7970 CFX to the 970

Features wanted:
  1. 650W+
  2. Fanless or extremely low noise during low loads
  3. High quality, long lasting

So far I'm considering:

  1. Corsair RMx50i
  2. Seasonic Snow Silent 1050W Main pro: Looks, fanless for longer
  3. EVGA Supernova P2 8/7/650W
  4. BeQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 8/7/650W Main Pro: quiet throughout

What other PSUs should I consider? Any differences between them that could help me compare? Will probably be going in an FT05 but length of the unit is not an issue.

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Last edited by nster on Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:04 am 
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The RM650i is a decent PSU and Corsair claims the spec the caps, coils and transformers for whine, but pricey for it's class. Looks like the fan doesn't spin until sometime after 325W load for jonnyguru, 260W load at eteknix, and 240W for technic3D. Alternatives are the RMx non-link version of this PSU. Also, the EVGA Supernova P2 650W. Or, the be quiet! Straight Power E10 or Dark Power Pro 11. All are decent PSUs.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:54 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
The RM650i is a decent PSU and Corsair claims the spec the caps, coils and transformers for whine, but pricey for it's class. Looks like the fan doesn't spin until sometime after 325W load for jonnyguru, 260W load at eteknix, and 240W for technic3D. Alternatives are the RMx non-link version of this PSU. Also, the EVGA Supernova P2 650W. Or, the be quiet! Straight Power E10 or Dark Power Pro 11. All are decent PSUs.


Thanks for all those suggestions! I'll educate myself of these other PSUs :) RMx is not available yet here in Canada, and I'd probably prefer the FDB fan over Rifle bearing if I had to guess. Do you have any thoughts on the Snow Silent? I like that, at least for the 1050W unit, JonnyGuru and TPU were able to keep it fanless to 500W

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Don't have any positive or negative thoughts on the Snow Silent. Seasonic had some issues with some builds for "coil" whine. Don't know if it has been definatively resolved with the Snow Silent architecture. Note: I own several Seasonic PSUs - none had issues. I'm iffy on recommending them just because there isn't much new data, yet.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:27 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Don't have any positive or negative thoughts on the Snow Silent. Seasonic had some issues with some builds for "coil" whine. Don't know if it has been definatively resolved with the Snow Silent architecture. Note: I own several Seasonic PSUs - none had issues. I'm iffy on recommending them just because there isn't much new data, yet.


Is that the kind of thing that is apparent at the beginning or can it develop over time?

Whoa that EVGA has some incredible reviews, just like the RMi!

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Last edited by nster on Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:17 pm 
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nster wrote:
Is that the kind of thing that is apparently at the beginning or can it develop over time?

Usually the former - or when you swap out mobo and/or gfx card.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:28 pm 
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nster wrote:
My HX850 is way too noticeable since I've gone from 280X+7970 CFX to the 970, the noise is so irritating I can't work!

Are your sure it's due to the PSU? The GTX 970 is somewhat notorious for coil whine problems.

Set aside that none of the quoted PSUs uses rifle/sleeve bearing fan (differently from RMx, they're either FDB or Ball Bearing ones), your assessment on RMi/RMx fanless operation is just wrong, eTeknix/technic3d data are the same from other source.

The FDB fan on the Snow Silent is a mediocre one, sound-wise, more a marketing gimnick than a real advancement over the usual Sanyo Denki ones, but the 1050W PSU may operate fanless under any condition up to about 450W DC, so that it should be perfectly up to the task (and a marvelous unit performance & reliability wise). The 750W Snow Silent, on the other hand, have a much shorter fanless operation, particularly over 27-28°C ambient temp, so apparently it isn't as quiet as any of the other quoted PSUs (neither it can be considered as loud, at least up to 300W DC, while above that mark its conservative controller makes the FDB fan noise signature clearly more noticeable).

Noise wise the best option is the overpriced Dark Power Pro 11 (the fan Hall IC costs by itself more than the Snow Silent whole fan), then the EVGA P2 comes second (thanks to its exceptional heath resiliency, given that its ball bearing fan isn't the best sounding one), with the RMi/RMx close to it. The three smaller Straight Power E10s are probably better than both up to 300W power draw (due to their fabolous fans), so definitely it depends of your actual power consumption.

With reference to coil whine risk, both the EVGA P2 and Corsair RMi/RMx should have a clear advantage over other mentioned units, but take note that there is not a coil-whine free platform.

All in all probably in North America the best value is from the EVGA P2 (providing that the optimal solution isn't swapping the GTX 970 with a GTX 980, often referred as less prone to whining than the smaller sibling).

Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:04 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Are your sure it's due to the PSU? The GTX 970 is somewhat notorious for coil whine problems.
Set aside that none of the quoted PSUs uses rifle/sleeve bearing fan (differently from RMx, they're either FDB or Ball Bearing ones), your assessment on RMi/RMx fanless operation is just wrong, eTeknix/technic3d data are the same from other source
I'll have to be more careful about listening to it, but it seemed like a lower pitched sound and there was some sort of pattern to it, so I'm pretty sure it's fan noise. I'll have to give it a good cleaning, perhaps it will help, however I'm getting used to the noise now so it's not nearly as bad to me as when I had just done the switch. Either way I still want a PSU change so I can use this HX850 in another environment

My comment about Rifle bearing was about RMi vs RMx, figuring I'd prefer the FDB fan

Good to know about the Seasonic, so the 1050W is still on my shortlist, simply because of looks and that I've always admired Seasonic PSUs. I guess the fan doesn't matter much in this case though as it will basically be a passive PSU in my case. I am looking for ultimate quality as well in this PSU, so I don't think I want to consider the Straight Power for this build, but I'm curious, how is it better than the DPP11 or EVGA P2? Do those two make noise during fanless operation somehow? Also is there any differences between 650, 750 or 850W versions of these PSUs? Specifically the fanless range. I'm willing to pay extra for quality etc, of course within reason, but it doesn't have to be "worth it" necessarily

Would any of these theoretically be able to be connected to / run 2 computers at the same time, assuming buying extra cables? Also, if I want to use CableMod cables, are they in any way better or worse than stock cables apart from looks?

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time! HX850 UNBEARABLE after GPU change
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:49 pm 
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nster wrote:
I don't think I want to consider the Straight Power for this build, but I'm curious, how is it better than the DPP11 or EVGA P2?

I was referring to both the EVGA P2 and Corsair RMi.
Set aside that any fanless electronics has some form of electronic noise, in my experience an high quality, low spinning fan may give a "better silence" or, if you rather, a better sound signature than passive operation, as a sort of sound masking effect (so, in my opinion, a 400/500/600W E10 may be somehow quieter than both the EVGA and Corsair 650-watter up to about 300W DC, though with extremely high ambient temp the EVGA's heath resiliency may matter).


nster wrote:
Also is there any differences between 650, 750 or 850W versions of these PSUs? Specifically the fanless range.

Are you referring to either the EVGAs or the Corsairs? As far as I know the two larger EVGAs mostly have a tad longer fanless operation particularly with high ambient temp (though also a faster/noisier fan), while the Corsair RMi are supposed to run fanless up to the 50% of the rated power.


nster wrote:
Would any of these theoretically be able to be connected to / run 2 computers at the same time, assuming buying extra cables?

I'm not sure to have understood you but: providing you know a reliable method to hook up two cabling sets to just one unit, the load will be unbalanced, with unpredictable effects, and both the computers should be powered on and off at the same time.


nster wrote:
Also, if I want to use CableMod cables, are they in any way better or worse than stock cables apart from looks?

With reference to the original cabling, as far as I know there are capacitors at the end connectors, so you likely worsen ripple/noise suppression by about 10-20mV with third-party cables (IIRC CableMod ones don't sport those caps).

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:03 am 
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I ended up going with the EVGA P2 750W :)

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:16 am 
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nster wrote:
I ended up going with the EVGA P2 750W :)


Is it quiet?


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:56 am 
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Koolpc wrote:
nster wrote:
I ended up going with the EVGA P2 750W :)


Is it quiet?


Yep! Definitively made a difference, and this PSU is great quality. The G2 isn't that far behind though, and 750W was overkill for me, so I could have considered the G2 650W for sure and probably wouldn't have noticed any difference at all. Alternatively, if money isn't important, I could have gone with a BeQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11.

One thing to know with the EVGA and DPP11 are that they aren't flat cables. I don't mind, but many do nowadays

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:48 am 
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EVGA partner with Superflower is netting some of the best PSU in the market.

For the US was harder to get holds on Superflower PSUs, specially their Leadex Platinium, but all this changing with the EVGA P2, and the 650/750/850 are almost as small as seasonics 160mm, just 5mm more. Their 1200W is the only PSU i seen Oklahomawolf from jonnyguru give a perfect score. Seems EVGA/Superflower have a winner on this series, would be great to see if SPCR could get some samples.

I have build a couple of pcs with EVGA 750W G2, and i have no regrets or bad remarks, but very eager to try or build with P2.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:34 am 
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Thanks for the feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:29 am 
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Abula wrote:
EVGA partner with Superflower is netting some of the best PSU in the market.

For the US was harder to get holds on Superflower PSUs, specially their Leadex Platinium, but all this changing with the EVGA P2, and the 650/750/850 are almost as small as seasonics 160mm, just 5mm more. Their 1200W is the only PSU i seen Oklahomawolf from jonnyguru give a perfect score. Seems EVGA/Superflower have a winner on this series, would be great to see if SPCR could get some samples.

I have build a couple of pcs with EVGA 750W G2, and i have no regrets or bad remarks, but very eager to try or build with P2.


I bought the EVGA P2 and never looked back, it is really overkill for my build but its so quiet almost nothing. Fan never turned on so far. I think the EVGA P2 is one of best PSU's ive had (I used a superflower 550w golden king before).


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:02 am 
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Hey there,

I am doing a little bump to this thread, beacause I am actually looking for a PSU with same features in the 650-750 W range.
The EVGA P2, the be quiet! Dark Power Pro and the Seasonic Snow Silent are within the same price in France (190-200 €).
From what I've read here and there, it's a tough call. Seasonic has the quality, be quiet! the silence, and EVGA in the middle and a little cheaper. Am i right?
Does EVGA still stand the better call?


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:38 pm 
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Neocray wrote:
I am actually looking for a PSU with same features in the 650-750 W range.

Why?


Neocray wrote:
Does EVGA still stand the better call?

It depends (mainly from your answer).

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:08 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Why?

Why 650-750 W or why same features?

As the components I am gathering would pump nearly 600 W in full load, it should answer the first question.
And for the second, the rig will be in the bedroom, so it needs to be quiet enough. A high quality PSU will cost more but last more as well, so it looks like a better investment.


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:02 am 
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Neocray wrote:
As the components I am gathering would pump nearly 600 W in full load


Are you sure? Overestimating sometimes doesn't help quietness.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:44 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Are you sure? Overestimating sometimes doesn't help quietness.

I've used this calculator.
With moderate overclocking, here are the results:
Load Wattage: 626 W
Recommended UPS rating: 1200 VA
Recommended PSU Wattage: 676 W

Considering that the full load is never reached in practical conditions and with room for improvements, I think 650 W is a bare minimum and 750 W the right spot.
Am I wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:51 am 
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Neocray wrote:
I've used this calculator.
With moderate overclocking, here are the results:
Load Wattage: 626 W
Recommended UPS rating: 1200 VA
Recommended PSU Wattage: 676 W

Considering that the full load is never reached in practical conditions and with room for improvements, I think 650 W is a bare minimum and 750 W the right spot.
Am I wrong?

I was somehow quite confident that you've used some online calculator.

Well, usually they're just random figures generators: you'd better to drill down your parts list, so that we may try to work out a possibly more educated guess.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:34 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
I was somehow quite confident that you've used some online calculator.

Well, usually they're just random figures generators: you'd better to drill down your parts list, so that we may try to work out a possibly more educated guess.

Well, I trusted this calculator, given you can choose the parts quite precisely and finely tune the overclocking.

Anyway here are the (overclocked) numbers I found in several reviews:
3770k + Asus MVF : 260-280 W
Gigabyte GTX 580 SOC : 300 W
Let's say 50 W for the rest, the calculator seems pretty accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:08 am 
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Neocray wrote:
Anyway here are the (overclocked) numbers I found in several reviews:
3770k + Asus MVF : 260-280 W
Gigabyte GTX 580 SOC : 300 W
Let's say 50 W for the rest, the calculator seems pretty accurate.

Well, I'd say quite the opposite: even with that inefficient GPU you shouldn't draw more than 350-400W DC in real life scenarios (actual gaming and overclock), and way less if you should jump onto the Pascal bandwagon after the end of may.

Probably the most sensible choice would be a Corsair RM550x.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:51 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Well, I'd say quite the opposite: even with that inefficient GPU you shouldn't draw more than 350-400W DC in real life scenarios (actual gaming and overclock), and way less if you should jump onto the Pascal bandwagon after the end of may.

Probably the most sensible choice would be a Corsair RM550x.

Hm, ok.
So why this one rather than the be quiet! 550 W ? The price ?


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:28 pm 
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Neocray wrote:
Hm, ok.

I'm sorry if you're disappointed, but there's more than a chance you somehow misunderstood or misinterpreted the reviews you were thinking of.


Neocray wrote:
So why this one rather than the be quiet! 550 W ? The price ?

Price is a strong factor, the be quiet costs +35-40% more on average, but performance/price ratio is the decisive one: the be quiet doesn't offer actual advantages to the vast majority of users (for vast majority I mean that if you had a SLI pair of GTX 980 passively cooled by external radiators, then the P11 550 *might* have a slight edge at full load, noise wise: otherwise, unlikely).

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Not sure how price work in euro, how about the g2 instead of p2?

In the US, dropping from 600w to 500w usually only save one 10 usd on a 70-80 PSU.

Personally, I wouldn't touch seasonic at high end, since it tend to whine here and there, even the latest revision. The chance maybe slim, but there is no reason to gamble.


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:55 pm 
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baii wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't touch seasonic at high end

That's a bit of FUD, I think: a reasonable guessestimate of whine risk might be around 10%, I guess a tad low to mark them as "avoid".
Following that kind of reasoning, then you shouldn't buy also EVGA G2s, because Super Flower is outsourcing lots of units to a questionable third party with less effective quality control, so there's a risk you won't get a PSU as good as it should be.

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:01 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
I'm sorry if you're disappointed, but there's more than a chance you somehow misunderstood or misinterpreted the reviews you were thinking of.

I'm not disappointed at all, just a little puzzled. It's actually good advice, since the other references in my first shortlist are about twice the price, but not double worth it.
I don't remember why I discarded the RMx in the first place, but it seems I made a confusion between the RM series and the RMx/RMi.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Price is a strong factor, the be quiet costs +35-40% more on average, but performance/price ratio is the decisive one: the be quiet doesn't offer actual advantages to the vast majority of users (for vast majority I mean that if you had a SLI pair of GTX 980 passively cooled by external radiators, then the P11 550 *might* have a slight edge at full load, noise wise: otherwise, unlikely).

OK, it's just that the P11 seems to be very high regarded for its silence.
Well, the RM550x is found at just 100 €. About the baii's suggestion, the eVGA G2 550W is found at 85 €.
And there is an arguable challenger in the place of a near-perfect clone of the P-660 unit, sold in the French-speaking countries by LDLC under its own brand. I can buy it for 110 €.


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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:05 am 
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Neocray wrote:
I'm not disappointed at all, just a little puzzled.

Your GTX-580 draws likely 40-60W more (peak) than a good GTX-970 (the real difference is under FurMark/OCCT, as your card doesn't have current limiters, so that it would draw 100-120W more). You might look at a good GTX-970 review (like ths one: those were gaming AC figures, inclusive of conversion losses, actual DC ones are 10-13% even lower) to get a better power consumption estimate than the flawed Outervision's one.


Neocray wrote:
OK, it's just that the P11 seems to be very high regarded for its silence.

And it deserves so: probably the best options around at that wattage level (500-550W) are (noise wise) the P11 550, the P2 550 and the RM550x: perhaps the Enermax Platimax 500 is still competitive, but performance-wise is a notch behind them.

But, as any be quiet, the P11 is overpriced: to say, it sports one of the best fans seen in a PSU (the Silent Wings 3), but it offers a just 5 years warranty, as well as the RMx with its inferior, cheaper fan (despite of fan and caps are the most prone to failure components in a PSU). Another marginally better aspect is the P11 load efficiency, but the RMx is rather close to Platinum levels. All in all the only "rational" aspect I see to favour the P11 is whether you wanted right a full-on fan PSU for some reason.


Neocray wrote:
Well, the RM550x is found at just 100 €. About the baii's suggestion, the eVGA G2 550W is found at 85 €.
And there is an arguable challenger in the place of a near-perfect clone of the P-660 unit, sold in the French-speaking countries by LDLC under its own brand. I can buy it for 110 €.

The G2 550 is not on par with the P2 550 sibling: though not really loud, it's more noticeable due to a more conservative fan profile, so that you should opt for either the P2 550 or the G2 650.

I can't say anything about LDLC, though I doubt they may sell a P-660 clone at that price, maybe is it an X-650 one?
At any rate, personally I'd use a Seasonic PSU whether I were pretty sure about a conveniently low ambient temp (the P-660 fanless range is strongly ambient temperature dependant, at high temp that fanless operation is rather smaller/shorter than the best competition), and a customer support who don't put objections to replace the PSU just because I say it whines (like the Amazon EU's one usually does).

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 Post subject: Re: New PSU time!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:35 am 
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Location: France
quest_for_silence wrote:
Your GTX-580 draws likely 40-60W more (peak) than a good GTX-970 (the real difference is under FurMark/OCCT, as your card doesn't have current limiters, so that it would draw 100-120W more). You might look at a good GTX-970 review (like ths one: those were gaming AC figures, inclusive of conversion losses, actual DC ones are 10-13% even lower) to get a better power consumption estimate than the flawed Outervision's one.

I've found a couple reviews for this specific model (Gigabyte GTX 580 SOC) with ingame tests (mostly Crysis 2). The GPU pumps up to 270-280 W, or even almost 300 W with extra OC.
The kit CPU + mobo has been reviewed alone between 250-280 W (not ingame though, mostly CPU-intensive programs, some of which I plan to use). That's where my calculation come from.

quest_for_silence wrote:
But, as any be quiet, the P11 is overpriced: to say, it sports one of the best fans seen in a PSU (the Silent Wings 3), but it offers a just 5 years warranty, as well as the RMx with its inferior, cheaper fan (despite of fan and caps are the most prone to failure components in a PSU). Another marginally better aspect is the P11 load efficiency, but the RMx is rather close to Platinum levels. All in all the only "rational" aspect I see to favour the P11 is whether you wanted right a full-on fan PSU for some reason.

OK, thanks for your explanations, I see your point.
The RMx have a 7 years warranty, by the way, even the 550 one.

quest_for_silence wrote:
The G2 550 is not on par with the P2 550 sibling: though not really loud, it's more noticeable due to a more conservative fan profile, so that you should opt for either the P2 550 or the G2 650.

I can't say anything about LDLC, though I doubt they may sell a P-660 clone at that price, maybe is it an X-650 one?
At any rate, personally I'd use a Seasonic PSU whether I were pretty sure about a conveniently low ambient temp (the P-660 fanless range is strongly ambient temperature dependant, at high temp that fanless operation is rather smaller/shorter than the best competition), and a customer support who don't put objections to replace the PSU just because I say it whines (like the Amazon EU's one usually does).

The P2 550 doesn't seem to exist. At least, it's not listed on eVGA website in EU, nor found in online vendors. The G2 650 sells at around 115 €, overshooting the other options.

As for LDLC, it has been confirmed to be P-series clone, it even shares the same casing. It has a 5 years warranty, though, 2 years less than the P-660. They also have clones of the G-series, the S12II-series and the platinum fanless series.
LDLC is aware that those Seasonic-made units are prone to coil whining. Several forumers from forum.hardware.fr have reported an immediate exchange or refund on the first call to customer support.
However, from what you say, the ambient temperature in my actual room easily goes up to 27-28 °C in summer time, or even 30+ °C on short periods of heatwave.
Moreover, a Corsair representative is present on forum.hardware.fr and can help for RMA (while the Seasonic one is gone since a couple months), which is quite convenient.
Looks like the RM550x is definitely the better option.


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