It is currently Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:10 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 214 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:49 am
Posts: 35
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
mastabog wrote:

Also, a lot of these units are sold in the US. I twice mentioned a possible different behaviour of the HX520 when on UK 220V or US 110V and gave a possible explanation - any feedback on that from Corsair? Just out of curiosity, Stormy, are you on 110V?

Do you mean you have short-circuit the two pins on the atx connector to start it with no load on the PSU (i.e. nothing connected to it)? I would be surprised if it didn't tick. Otherwise, that X1900XT can never get you to the "low-load" level the ticking appears. I heard that tick when the load on the PSU is below 50-60W (DC). With the 1900XT, you may approach 100W, depending on your CPU (and other stuff it powers). Above 80-90W it doesn't tick. At least the two I tested didn't.


I am in the UK on 230v.

No you didnt read what I wrote. I tried the PSU with nothing plugged into my motherboard except the CPU and RAM, there was no 'ticking' I had the PSU out of the case, and when I put my ear to the PSU I could hear a very very 'slight' buzz and the fan was near silent.

When I had all the case together I unplugged the case fans and 'physically' stoped the IceQ 3 fan with my hand to stop it spinning for 20 seconds or so.

I can't hear the 'buzz' unless I get my head down very close to the CPU is the point I am trying to make and I am very concious of electrical noises as sometimes my IceQ makes a 'whine' and I can hear that in 3D applications.

Mike


Last edited by stormy on Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Posts: 66
MikeC: I understood your point, really. But I honestly saw a change in opinion over a few posts of yours, which is fine :).

To your point 4). I did say I tested it in 3 different households in different locations. That is 3 different machines altogether (mobos, cpus, etc). I wanted to make sure that a) my other components are not at fault and b) the power distribution line in my house isn't either. After all, the S12-430 that I still have has no idle noise at all, only some chirping when I load the video card and scroll the mouse in webpages with lots of graphics/text.

I'm still interested in finding out about the 110V and 220V. Is that 1% worldwide or US/Canada centric?

I disagree with the comment about my expectation being too high :). Reading that comment one understands that perhaps nowadays sensitive people that didn't ever have whining components should learn to get used to it because some of them now whine. I have an electronics background and have been working with all sorts computers for more than 17 years (with power usages many times being higher than my current PC at idle). Only recently, after trying this new generation of PSUs (active PFC, 80%+ efficiency, double forward switching, etc) have I encountered electrical whine, buzz, hum, ticking, chirping and other sort of noise from the PSU. Something is definitely not quite right and it would be nice to increase awareness about this just as SPCR is doing a wonderful job at increasing awarness about silent computing, rather than saying, "well, you're too sensitive, and things have changed, tough luck" :). It's not the same as silent computing since most people don't see a problem at all. I do. I will take the time sometime and look at the electronics of new PSUs. The technology changed over the years, the switching part seems to be different.

This thread has now turned more phylosophical than technical :) and it was never my intention of making corsair PSUs look bad because of electrical whine. I will probably get a 3rd HX520 and check again. Three in a row usualy not bad luck. I can bet that if I buy a older FSP with no active PFC, no sophisticated switcing circuitrty, lower efficiency etc, chances that it buzzes/whines are indeed low. I'll probably end up doing just that :).

I agree with most of your sayinigs and will regard SPCR high and as a reference as ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Posts: 66
stormy wrote:
I am in the UK on 240v.

Where you got your HX520 from? What store I mean.

stormy wrote:
No you didnt read what I wrote. I tried the PSU with nothing plugged into my motherboard except the CPU and RAM...

Ok, fair enough I guess. Care to give any details about your config? I might have missed that too.

Thanks for the feedback.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:03 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11857
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
mastabog wrote:
MikeC: I understood your point, really. But I honestly saw a change in opinion over a few posts of yours, which is fine :).

I think my focus changed after talking with Corsair/Seasonic, realizing the numbers, and thinking about their situation. I certainly sympathize with anyone who has a buzzing issue -- that can be nasty, I've run into it here and there in the past, and as others have pointed out, usually the simplest solution is to move on to another PSU, which is a pain & costly. But I also appreciate the manufacturers' situations.

I still have the questions out there about the reasons these hum/buzz problems are happening when they happen, and I hope they get to the bottom of it, and that this info is shared with me (and you). What I think might happen, though, is that whether or not this problem is fully understood, as newer components inside PSUs come along, older ones will get replaced as a matter of course, and hopefully, this problem will pass.

An aside: PSU design has undergone tremendous change in the last 4~5 years, after seemingly developing at a snail's pace for >20 years compared to everything else in computing. They're not moving quite as fast as motherboard designs, perhaps at about half the pace, and in many ways, I think the mfgs are subject to some of the same challenges -- they often don't have the time/resources to beta test for compatibility with everything, partly because all the other PC components are changing constantly, the ATX12V PSU spec has changed lots, and new power components (in electronics) are coming along at a faster pace than before.

Has anyone followed the whining power components issue that's cropped up on CD and C2D notebooks? The situation seems similarly difficult to resolve. I exchanged some emails with someone who claimed to be an industry insider. His comments may be relevant here:

Quote:
him: My main job function is Notebook acoustics and this particular problem I've been researching/studying for the better part of a year. The problem is as the Dell technical support describes, capacitors vibrating due to pieziolectric effect.

me: So why are these particular caps being affected? Poor circuit design? Bad parts? A combo? What are the possible solutions, both at the production stage and for existing problem units? If there is a solution, is a retrofit possible

him: Let me start by saying I like your site. It's nice to see a group (all be it small) really care about noise and how it relates to computers. The IT industry sometimes just doesn't get how critical this subject is to the end users.

Anyway, The caps are making the noise due to the reference designs. The caps are perfectly in spec and the noise is normal. I said normal, that doesn't mean it's wanted by the user. :-/ The good news is the frequency content of the noise if fairly high. Many people as they age will not hear this noise. Of course some can and any one < 40 should have no problem hearing this. End result, if you can hear it it's freak'n annoying!

Solutions are few and far between you really need to start at the very beginning. This year we've been (my company) has been very successful at eliminating this noise on our new models that will be out this year. However, we will be challenged again next year with even more battery savings in the Intel and AMD designs.

ie, this problem seems directly related to efficiency...

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:29 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:47 am
Posts: 1504
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Quote: The good news is the frequency content of the noise if fairly high. [/endquote]

Not in my case (S12E+650). It's a buzz that's slightly lower frequency than the buzz of my CRT, so I suppose it's also coil related.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:49 am
Posts: 35
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
mastabog wrote:
stormy wrote:
I am in the UK on 240v.

Where you got your HX520 from? What store I mean.

stormy wrote:
No you didnt read what I wrote. I tried the PSU with nothing plugged into my motherboard except the CPU and RAM...

Ok, fair enough I guess. Care to give any details about your config? I might have missed that too.

Thanks for the feedback.


No problem, I bought from Scan in the UK the PSU is marked B2W, not sure if that is a revision.

System spec:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
Asus P5K Deluxe/WIFI-AP
Antec P180 Case, 3 x Antec Fans (want to replace these with Nexus soon)
Corsair HX520W PSU
WD SE16 500Gb (AAKS) - SATA
WD SE16 320Gb (AAKS) - SATA
Pioneer DVD-RW 111 - PATA
2Gb Crucial Ballistix PC8500+ (1066Mhz DDR2)
HIS IceQ3 Radeon X1900XT PCIe (want to use an Accelero S1/Turbo Module on this as the fan rattles)
Soundblaster Audigy 2 PCI

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Posts: 66
stormy: Thanks. Your machine is very similar to mine. I have an x1950xt instead of 1900 and 2 x samsung 250Gb. If I get to buy a 3rd hx520 i might try scan.co.uk.

MikeC: Thanks for the reply and the chat extract. I knew about the Dell notebook noise hype. PSU circuitry has definitely changed radically and this whining/buzzing may start being addressed too in some (hopefully) close future. Nobody from the industry was really interested about silent computing but it has now become more than a trend.

Tzupy: I'm not sure what you mean by buzz there. A CRT may generate very high frequency noise (like old TVs) but if you put your ear against its back, you can hear a buzz, as in BZZZZZ, which is the 50/60 Hz transformer and is normal (unless you hear it from a distance).

I for one am much more sensitive to high frequency whining than (low freq) buzzes. It drives me nuts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Corsair HX520 buzz/whine issues (other PSUs discussed to
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:47 pm
Posts: 11
mastabog wrote:
I would be *extremely* grateful if Corsair 520W owners would tell me if their unit generates any buzz/cricket/tick/whine/etc sound when idle or CPU/VGA under load or even when the mouse scroll wheel or keyboard is used to scroll web pages.


No, my HX520 is completely silent. The loudest thing in my PC is the Thermaltake TMG-AT1 installed on my X1900XT.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Corsair HX520 buzz/whine issues (other PSUs discussed to
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:00 pm
Posts: 66
jonmcc33 wrote:
No, my HX520 is completely silent.

Hmm, did you remove its fan completely or turned it off? :P j/k


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Corsair HX520 buzz/whine issues (other PSUs discussed to
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:29 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:48 am
Posts: 717
Location: San Francisco, CA
mastabog wrote:
jonmcc33 wrote:
No, my HX520 is completely silent.

Hmm, did you remove its fan completely or turned it off? :P j/k


I finally got my corsair in...whew almost 3 hours of work changing everything out, and I gotta say it's amazingly quiet. I think at this point my hard drives are honestly louder than anything else. Also my 7900GTO fan is insanely low noise, which may be affected by my undervolting as well. Also the corsair does not have any noticeable buzzing at all from my normal location. If I put my ear directly up to the psu, it seems there is a little bit(barely can be heard over what I'd consider a very quiet system), but this completely disappears if only a few feet away.

_________________
Quiet Wuv Wizzie
Main: I5-3570K at 3.7ghz, 16GB DDR-1600@1.35v, Asrock Z77 Extreme6, Corsair 330R, Seasonic 760XP2, Sapphire Radeon 7950| Secondary/Lan: Core i3-2100, 4GB, Msi H67MA-E35, Radeon 6790, Sugo SG02| HTPC: Core i3-2100, 4GB, AsRock H67M-ITX/HT, Antec ISK300-65| NAS: Core I3-2100, 8GB, Antec TP-550, Lian Li PC-Q08B, 4X2TB WD Green| Lappy: Latitude D620 Core 2 T7600, Quadro NVS 110M


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:38 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:39 am
Posts: 1925
Location: Finland
I AM A DUMBASS WHO DIDN'T CHECK BASIC REFERENCE MATERIALS AND GOOGLE BEFORE ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


Last edited by Das_Saunamies on Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Corsair HX520 buzz/whine issues (other PSUs discussed to
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:58 am
Posts: 294
merlin wrote:
Also the corsair does not have any noticeable buzzing at all from my normal location. If I put my ear directly up to the psu, it seems there is a little bit(barely can be heard over what I'd consider a very quiet system), but this completely disappears if only a few feet away.


Same here, with a Zalman ZM600-HP. No buzz or whine, a very little bit of buzz with my ear directly up the rear of PS (i'm 32 years old :wink: ) quiet at around 100-150W, adda fan inside. Good choice after all, it's not SPCR-reccomended but not to bad for a quiet system build. Mine is mounted with silicone gasket in Antec P150. I'm happy with it :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:26 pm 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2175
Location: TN, USA
Das_Saunamies wrote:
On a related note, could anyone tell me what's the fan model used in Corsair HX520? Is it by chance a slow Adda like the original S12?


With all the complaints about lack of new reviews on SPCR you haven't read an existing review on a highly discussed piece of hardware?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article692-page1.html

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=35844

Both the article and the thread about the article heavily cover the fan chosen. There is even a picture of the fan right in the middle of the article.

I'll give you a hint it's the same one the 620W uses and the same as in the M12 series.

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:55 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:39 am
Posts: 1925
Location: Finland
GRRR forgot to remove stupid post after checking reviews, sorry. :evil:

I always whip people on being lazy and not reading the reference material that is already there, and yet I fall in myself. Internet breeds lazyness!

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:14 am
Posts: 105
Just wanted to add that both my Corsair HX-620W and Seasonic S12-430W are silent and buzz free.

My Seasonic S12-380 on the other hand buzzes like crazy in 3 different systems, more so when power draw is in the 45-60w range. I still have the PSU so if SPCR wants to run some tests on this unit, I'd be more than happy to ship it to you.

_________________
[size=75]P180B | Asus M4A785-M | BE-2350 @ 0.912V to 1.056V | Ninja | 4GB DDR2-800 | Morex 150W Brick | OCZ Vertex 2 60GB SSD| 1x Scythe SFF21D + 1x Nexus 120mm | 29W Idle, 60W Max
[/size]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:33 am
Posts: 54
jaldridge6 wrote:
To people that are claiming no buzz. Have you tried listening to it in a silent room, with only one harddrive and no fans running in the computer? Try loading the CPU as well. I believe that people claiming no buzz haven't actually taken the time, in a silent environment with zero other distractions, to validate that claim. .........It's not an earthshattering buzz, its actually just slightly louder than the fan at its lowest RPM. However, if you have exceptional ears, its easily audible if the rest of the system is dead silent. For me it was such a petty complaint. A tiny little buzz drove me insane with irritation. Most people wouldn't even pay attention to it. I know I didnt even notice it for the first 3 months with the power supply.

I'd almost say that apart of the experience is feeling that the power supply is behaving in a funny way intuitively. Some people have weird connections with their electronics.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I had the power supply for 3 months before I noticed that it was buzzing. I thought maybe it was a time lapsed thing. To test that, I went to the store and bought another one. SUre enough it buzzed out the box.

The fact is you might just not be noticing it. And if you want to stay happy, i'd suggest forgetting about this thread all together ;)


Exactly! I have Corsair HX620W and when I first got it I used it in the P180 case with some fans on medium and some fans on low. The p180 was placed under the desk. I've never detected any low constant buzzing noise.

A couple days ago I replace the P180 case with the Zalman Z-Machine GT-1000 case. When all fan set to 5V, I can detect this disturbing irritation buzz from the PSU. But if the fans rotate 1600+ RPM, no more buzz because the fan noise eclipses the buzz sound. Like you said it is not earth shattering buzz but it's irritating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:53 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Budapest, Hungary
I wrote some words about this PSU 3 months ago. My friend using it in a Core 2 configuration. It was compeletely quiet no buzz or whine can be heard (quiet configuration) but now it started to whine. :(

It lasted 3 months... maybe the glue or other things dissolved and can't fasten the coils anymore.

_________________
Asrock ConRoe865PE, Core 2 Duo E5800, Thermalright XP-90, Noctua NF-B9, ATI All-In-Wonder X800XT AGP,Accelero S2 + Noctua NF-S12B ULN, 2*1GB Corsair DDR400 CL2, Intel X-25MG2 80GB SSD SATA ,Hitachi P7K500 500GB PATA, WD GP 2TB SATA, Pioneer 111, SB Audigy1, Ati TV Wonder PRO, Seasonic S12 430W;


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 pm
Posts: 44
My 520HX started buzzing or at least I just noticed it buzzing after 3 months of use. I may get the 620HX and RMA the 520HX. I'll have an extra PSU but can't have my computer down for weeks waiting for a replacement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:49 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Posts: 1630
Location: Portugal
My HX520's fan just started making an annoying "grinding" noise whenever I'm playing games (load) :evil:

It worked fine for a about a month... now this.

_________________
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire HD 7970 3GB OC w/Arctic Accelero Xtreme IV 280(X) | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Caviar Blue 1TB + WD Caviar Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | SteelSeries 7G | Logitech G400s | SteelSeries QcK+


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 9:25 am
Posts: 92
Location: Norway
Well, I guess my hearing isn't what it used to be and to be honest, I do have a minor case of tinnitus. (Imagine that, a 24/7 tiny buzz in your head. Don't worry, I got used to it. ;) ). I still appreciate a silent PC tho, but I guess I can't quite perceive stuff like some of you guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Posts: 2
I am currently looking to build myself a new gaming rig, and have chosen the Corsair 620HX as the powersupply.

I did some googling on peoples experiences on this powersupply, and came across this page.

I am studying Electrical and Computer Engineering at UoA, and thought I might be able to shed some light on this high frequency noise some users appear to be having.

As an introduction, AC power is by no means sinusoidal at all. All AC devices that you connect to the grid are "seen" by your power generation company as either capacitive or inductive; Devices that are 100% resistive are very difficult to produce. This capacitive and or inductive effect of the devices on your AC supply modify the sine wave of your AC voltage, and add non-linear behaviour such as spiking on either the leading or trailing edges of the wave, clipping, or cupping on the extremes. This is due to the fact that capacitive loads cause the current to lead the voltage, and inductive loads cause the current to lag the voltage. A perfect AC sine wave would have the current exactly in phase with the voltage (A phase difference of 0 degrees). Any capacitive or inductive effects will cause the current to lag or lead in comparison to this ideal 0 degrees. Devices that are purely resistive do not effect the phase difference between the voltage and the current at all, and thus are the best kind of devices as they are more efficient.

Also, the AC supply is always affected by devices. Power transmission is a two way street, any effects from devices not properly designed, such as lack of RF sheilding for example, can travel back into the AC line and wreak havoc on other devices in your home.

The active power factor correction in modern power supplies is a type of technology that accounts for these effects on your AC power sine wave created by the power supply, and attempts to correct itself so that it appears to be a resistive load (Power factor of 1) as opposed to a capacitive of inductive load.

The active PFC in power supplies depends greatly on a number of factors, such as:
- Power factor of incoming AC signal
- 'Quality' of the incoming AC signal
- Load on the power supply

The electrical noise that most of you hear from your computers will be in the higher end of the audible scale (18,000 Hz and above most likely). This could be generated from several sources, such external frequencies travelling back into your power supply (From things like the motherboards clock generators, un-ferrite blauned cables, bad case design, just to name a few). Also, the active PFC possibly could be a source of this noise, as it uses a series of capacitors and inductors to couple across the supply to bring it's power factor as close as possible to 1.

A note on cables: All cables act as giant antennas to RF frequencies! And also, nearly all devices emit RF frequencies! Cables that have a cylindrical "bump" in the cable have an RF ferrite blaun on the cable, to help reduce the effects of RF being picked up by the cable.

The power supply noise can come from several components within the psu. Capacitors, Inductors are generally the culprits, and if you want to do further back-reading on the magnetic fields produced by these devices, do a google. However, inductor noise is sometimes created by the windings of the inductors vibrating on a minute scale. This is due to the magnetic field produced by inductors, which in turn inacts a force on the inductor itself, and depending on the frequency of the signal through these inductors, the coils may vibrate at a frequency within human hearing range. As for capacitors, I am not 100% sure yet as to what effects are generated by them, but I do know that they can often create resonating frequencies within the human hearing range.

These problems of musical electrical components are pretty much unavoidable.

However, I have noticed that there are people whom are having high frequency electronic noise issues when running an extremely low load on their power supply. 40-60W? For these people, go out and buy a 200W power supply, buying a 500W+ power supply for a load that small is bloody rediculous, as power supplies are extremely inefficient when loaded at such a small load! As a rule of thumb, your rig should pull around 40-50% of the total load supplied by the power supply when your rig is idle.

Also, there are several things that might help this high frequency noise, such as:
- Using sheilded monitor cables (Look for ones with the cylindrical "bump" along the cord)
- Using sheilded/ferrited power cables
- Changing the load on your power supply
- Try changing the refresh rate of your monitor, the clock frequency of your cpu etc
- Try turning various devices on and off within your homes. (Other devices may be messing up the AC signal and the power supply is affected by these effects)

Also, ideally, the AC frequency is 50Hz, however in practice this can be anywhere from 45-65Hz in the most extreme cases, which also can affect your power supplies, and create unwanted electronic noise as your power supply attempts to correct this.

As for UPS', not all models have AC wave filtering and noise reduction. Very expensive models do, but for the most part, UPS' do not have corporate-grade AC smoothing.

Just my input :) I hope that wasn't too confusing for some of you, and apologies about the length of my post. If anybody has more information than I do, feel free to correct me!

EDIT: And also, I have used Antec, Silverstone, and Atlas power supplies in the past, all of which have had this high frequency noise, albeit to different degrees. I have also had "squealing" motherboards, and both of my laptops (One Sony Vaio, one Toshiba) make some degree of high frequency noise in some conditions!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:55 am
Posts: 5085
Location: UK
Xantax, thank you for that very informative and in-depth post. just wanted to comment on a couple of things:

Quote:
running an extremely low load on their power supply. 40-60W? For these people, go out and buy a 200W power supply, buying a 500W+ power supply for a load that small is bloody ridiculous


while in an ideal world we would all use 80+ efficiency 100-200W PSUs, the reality is that very few conventional ATX power supplies are manufactured anymore with such a low capacity. This is caused by the myth of excessive power usage by PC components, which has led 1.2kW PSUs to hit the market etc. So all we can do is buy the lowest rated PSU that is commonly available and very quiet (usually Seasonic S12-330W). Due to the ludicrous nature of the PSU market currently, also sometimes lower rated models can be more expensive than 500W or 600W supplies.

Quote:
These problems of musical electrical components are pretty much unavoidable.


isn't it possible to design inductors etc. where the resonant frequencies are outside the range of human hearing? whether the motherboard mnfr's can be bothered to do this is a different story, but I just wonder if it is technically feasible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:04 pm 
Offline
SPCR News Editor

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 2175
Location: TN, USA
XantaxNZ wrote:
I am studying Electrical and Computer Engineering at UoA, and thought I might be able to shed some light on this high frequency noise some users appear to be having.

However, I have noticed that there are people whom are having high frequency electronic noise issues when running an extremely low load on their power supply. 40-60W? For these people, go out and buy a 200W power supply, buying a 500W+ power supply for a load that small is bloody rediculous, as power supplies are extremely inefficient when loaded at such a small load! As a rule of thumb, your rig should pull around 40-50% of the total load supplied by the power supply when your rig is idle.

Also, ideally, the AC frequency is 50Hz, however in practice this can be anywhere from 45-65Hz in the most extreme cases, which also can affect your power supplies, and create unwanted electronic noise as your power supply attempts to correct this.


I'm assuming the NZ is for New Zealand? Anyway in my neck of the woods 60Hz is normal.

As to 330 watt and lower power supplies Seasonic doesn't use the same heatsinks in those models as they do in the higher wattage models so those of us that are seeking very quiet power supplies are forced to look at 380W or higher. For example the quietest PSU at 150 watts DC load is a 550W model. While the newest competitor is a 450W model whose only real advantage is lower price.

I have no problem buying a lower wattage model so long as the efficiency numbers are high enough and the dBA are low enough.

_________________
.
Please put a country in your profile if you haven't already.
This site is international but I'll assume you are in the US if you don't tell me otherwise.
RAID levels thread http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=388987


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Posts: 2
jaganath wrote:
isn't it possible to design inductors etc. where the resonant frequencies are outside the range of human hearing? whether the motherboard mnfr's can be bothered to do this is a different story, but I just wonder if it is technically feasible.


It is, when they are running at their ideal frequencies yes. However, in the event that external frequencies are fed back into these inductors, the external frequencies present in the coils can cause them to resonate. Of course, there is always filtering done internally, but in reality this filtering will always be imperfect.

dhanson865 wrote:
I'm assuming the NZ is for New Zealand? Anyway in my neck of the woods 60Hz is normal.


50Hz is normal here for New Zealand, yes. However the frequency can deviate a bit at times.

Also, I have a near new 250W small-form-factor supply in my HTPC, which is pretty much near on silent. Not sure on the brand however, and I imagine NZ gets different product to the rest of the world.

Also, I have a question to those with Seasonic/Corsair power supplies, in particular the HX620 model: Apart from the high frequency squeal, how stable have these power supplies been?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 1
Just adding my two pence, as I've been reading this thread with some interest.

My Hiper Type-R 580 Watt PSU has started to whine really quite loudly since I upgraded my system (It draws about 100-150 Watts more than it used to). It's really frustrating, as I carefully chose each component to be low noise, and now the PSU is easily the noisiest component, and it's quite a maddening noise too.

I was considering buying a Corsair 620HX, but now I don't know if it's worth the bother... :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:14 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Vancouver
Zarf wrote:
I was considering buying a Corsair 620HX, but now I don't know if it's worth the bother... :?


It probably is.

My 520HX was behaving quite oddly yesterday when I first bought it. I decided to first test it out to see how quiet it is...shorted the power on cable.

Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick...

Erm.
I decided to build the rest of the computer anyway. When I turned it on, the ticking was gone...interesting, but I'm glad I don't have to RMA.

_________________
Antec P182 . Corsair 520HX . Gigabyte P35-DS3R . Intel Q6600 G0 @ 3.2GHz . Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme / Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E . Crucial Ballistix PC2-6400 2x1GB . Gigabyte 8600GT OC Passive . WD5000AAKS
SPCR General Gallery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:15 am
Posts: 317
Location: Under The Desk
The fan on my Corsair makes a noise too. It goes when i stop the fan!! Are the 620 Corsairs problem free?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:15 am
Posts: 317
Location: Under The Desk
Well?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:58 pm
Posts: 86
my HX520 fan recently started acting up, making intermittent chirping noises which is quite odd.

hows Corsairs RMA service? It comes and goes so i'm worried they will deny this RMA because the fan might not reproduce the sound upon testing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:15 am
Posts: 317
Location: Under The Desk
Ignore


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 214 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group