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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:24 pm 
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Are the 620 Corsair PSU trouble free?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:44 am 
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My fortron/source 350W 120mm is sqealing.. high-frequency whine, varies with cpu load.. *AGH*

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:01 am 
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Koolpc wrote:
Are the 620 Corsair PSU trouble free?


So far, so good. Better than the 520!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Koolpc wrote:
Koolpc wrote:
Are the 620 Corsair PSU trouble free?


So far, so good. Better than the 520!


Why do you keep spamming? Here's an idea, buy 520 and 620 Corsair and compare them and then post the results back here. Maybe no-one here has tried that before, you could the teh first!!1!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
Here's an idea, buy 520 and 620 Corsair and compare them and then post the results


if you read his post again it seems that's exactly what he's done.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:22 am 
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nutball wrote:
Koolpc wrote:
Koolpc wrote:
Are the 620 Corsair PSU trouble free?


So far, so good. Better than the 520!


Why do you keep spamming? Here's an idea, buy 520 and 620 Corsair and compare them and then post the results back here. Maybe no-one here has tried that before, you could the teh first!!1!


I am not spamming you idiot! I have bought both and have reported back that the 620 is indeed quieter etc etc!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:12 pm 
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XantaxNZ wrote:
I am currently looking to build myself a new gaming rig, and have chosen the Corsair 620HX as the powersupply.

I did some googling on peoples experiences on this powersupply, and came across this page.

I am studying Electrical and Computer Engineering at UoA, and thought I might be able to shed some light on this high frequency noise some users appear to be having.


First off, huh? There isn't a degree in "Electrical and Computer Engineering" per say. That is the name of the department. You would have to be either taking a degree in "Electrical and Electronic Engineering" or "Computer Systems Engineering". You can't be doing both as its mutally exclusive. I am guessing you are year 2?

Some theory you have proposed only holds true to a certain extend and some is incorrect.

Quote:
As an introduction, AC power is by no means sinusoidal at all. All AC devices that you connect to the grid are "seen" by your power generation company as either capacitive or inductive; Devices that are 100% resistive are very difficult to produce. This capacitive and or inductive effect of the devices on your AC supply modify the sine wave of your AC voltage, and add non-linear behaviour such as spiking on either the leading or trailing edges of the wave, clipping, or cupping on the extremes. This is due to the fact that capacitive loads cause the current to lead the voltage, and inductive loads cause the current to lag the voltage. A perfect AC sine wave would have the current exactly in phase with the voltage (A phase difference of 0 degrees). Any capacitive or inductive effects will cause the current to lag or lead in comparison to this ideal 0 degrees. Devices that are purely resistive do not effect the phase difference between the voltage and the current at all, and thus are the best kind of devices as they are more efficient.



Ok, I give you credit for stating the power factor correctly. HOWEVER, just because a load is capacitive or inductive DOES NOT cause the distortions as you have stated above. A pure capacitor itself or a pure inductor itself does indeed cause current to lag/lead the voltage respectively, yes but not distortions to the sine wave. The effects you have described however about the sine wave is true, but the cause is not. What causes those effects are due to A LOT of reasons, and would be too boring and/or tedious to list them all. It can also occur from various places. From the plant itself, the transmission line, distribution line, circuit breakers,compensators, industry plants, consumers, commercial places and so forth.

Power quality is of the utmost concern to power engineers due to 1.) Demanding increase of PQ due to sensitive equipment requiring them 2.) The sensitive equipment themselves is one of the main contributors to the power quality itself.

On the very basic concept of a Power Supply Unit (like the ones found inside a computer) it has 3 main functions. 1.) Step down the voltage 2.) Convert AC to DC. 2.) Regulate the DC voltage to "computer voltages" ala 12V, 5V.

PSUs has been around as long as electronics has been around. PSUs today serves the same function as their predecessor, however the method has changed. The method used to regulate the voltage has vastly improved on the sense of size reduction, power efficiency and wattage output. The method employed today has the same sense of PWM. The method is great on the microscale however on the macro it is one of the main causes of distortion being feed back to the mains. The PWM method "distorts" the waveform as part of the process.


Another point to note is the size of a transformer is inversely proportional to the frequency. A transformer is used to step down the mains voltage. If the transformer were to be run at 50Hz it would be as large if not larger than the whole PC itself! The mains may be running it at 50/60Hz, but the PSU has to be running at its own frequency. The higher the frequency the smaller the transformer has to be. The typical frequency is around and/or higher than the 10 kHz range. So why not run it at the highest frequency? Well you have to compensate, with all electronic products the smaller it is, the more costly it will be. So the electronic engineers has to compensate for the most cost effective. The frequency in a PSU is usually set by an RC clock on the on-board controller. A typical resistor has a tolerance of 10% (consumer grades) I'm pretty sure PSU companies would use industrial resistors with tigher tolerances. What that bascially means with tolerance taken into account the frequency would deviate from PSU to PSU. And this frequency combinded with the inductor toroids are the number 1 source of PSU buzzes. That's why some PSU buzzes, some don't, blame it on the tolarances!. A good PSU engineering company would take into account the extremes of the resistances use and made sure in the worse case scenerio the buzzing would not be in the audible range. However having said that, we do not live a a perfect world. There are spikes, swell, dips and what not in the power line and you would have to design low/mid/band pass filters to compensate for that. If the filter is poorly designed (or is at the extreme tolerances of the resistances to shift the frequency), buzzing could occur. Then you still have to design the overvoltage/overcurrent protection. Layout of the PCB to have the least EMI. Make sure it conforms to standards if you intend to sell it to that country yada yada yada. Can you start to see how complicated a PSU is and the myriad of places where the problem can occur?

Another cause for the buzz/hum could be the internal transformer. This is due to the magnetic-domains in the ferrite core aligning and re-aligning themselves in a high frequency due to the changing magnetic field. This is perfectly normal.

The two I have listed above( internal frequency change due to tolarances and transformer hum) are the most likely candidates that would cause buzzing. There are many many other reasons why a PSU buzzes.

Quote:
Also, the AC supply is always affected by devices. Power transmission is a two way street, any effects from devices not properly designed, such as lack of RF sheilding for example, can travel back into the AC line and wreak havoc on other devices in your home.

Yup.

Quote:
The active power factor correction in modern power supplies is a type of technology that accounts for these effects on your AC power sine wave created by the power supply, and attempts to correct itself so that it appears to be a resistive load (Power factor of 1) as opposed to a capacitive of inductive load.

The active PFC in power supplies depends greatly on a number of factors, such as:
- Power factor of incoming AC signal
- 'Quality' of the incoming AC signal
- Load on the power supply


Incorrect in the sense that PFC does not compensate for sine distortions you have described. PFC is used for a "cleaner" power. (AC) Power is dictated by P = VI cos (Phi). Cos (Phi) is known as the the power factor. Thus in order to get maximum power Cos (phi) has to be 1. Thus Phi the angle has to be 0. Thus its win win. From the utility view point it seems to be a resistive load, and on your end the psu is running at its full potential. The PFC however does not solve the problem distortion caused by regulation, but instead probably contributes to it.

Quote:
The electrical noise that most of you hear from your computers will be in the higher end of the audible scale (18,000 Hz and above most likely). This could be generated from several sources, such external frequencies travelling back into your power supply (From things like the motherboards clock generators, un-ferrite blauned cables, bad case design, just to name a few). Also, the active PFC possibly could be a source of this noise, as it uses a series of capacitors and inductors to couple across the supply to bring it's power factor as close as possible to 1.

ok, did you just contradict yourself by saying that the PFC is used to correct those problems?

Quote:
A note on cables: All cables act as giant antennas to RF frequencies! And also, nearly all devices emit RF frequencies! Cables that have a cylindrical "bump" in the cable have an RF ferrite blaun on the cable, to help reduce the effects of RF being picked up by the cable.

The power supply noise can come from several components within the psu. Capacitors, Inductors are generally the culprits, and if you want to do further back-reading on the magnetic fields produced by these devices, do a google. However, inductor noise is sometimes created by the windings of the inductors vibrating on a minute scale. This is due to the magnetic field produced by inductors, which in turn inacts a force on the inductor itself, and depending on the frequency of the signal through these inductors, the coils may vibrate at a frequency within human hearing range. As for capacitors, I am not 100% sure yet as to what effects are generated by them, but I do know that they can often create resonating frequencies within the human hearing range.

Ok

Quote:
These problems of musical electrical components are pretty much unavoidable.

However, I have noticed that there are people whom are having high frequency electronic noise issues when running an extremely low load on their power supply. 40-60W? For these people, go out and buy a 200W power supply, buying a 500W+ power supply for a load that small is bloody rediculous, as power supplies are extremely inefficient when loaded at such a small load! As a rule of thumb, your rig should pull around 40-50% of the total load supplied by the power supply when your rig is idle.


True to a certain extend. Every PSU has an optimal loading condition. don't quote me on this IIRC but it is usually 80% of the rated wattage.
Quote:
Also, there are several things that might help this high frequency noise, such as:
- Using sheilded monitor cables (Look for ones with the cylindrical "bump" along the cord)
- Using sheilded/ferrited power cables
- Changing the load on your power supply
- Try changing the refresh rate of your monitor, the clock frequency of your cpu etc
- Try turning various devices on and off within your homes. (Other devices may be messing up the AC signal and the power supply is affected by these effects)

Ok

Quote:
Also, ideally, the AC frequency is 50Hz, however in practice this can be anywhere from 45-65Hz in the most extreme cases, which also can affect your power supplies, and create unwanted electronic noise as your power supply attempts to correct this.


Incorrect, a utility will not let the frequency deviate more than .5Hz, (althought some countries such as India has been know to have very large deviations). More than .5Hz sensitive equipments will cease to work properly.

Quote:
As for UPS', not all models have AC wave filtering and noise reduction. Very expensive models do, but for the most part, UPS' do not have corporate-grade AC smoothing.

ok

Quote:
Just my input :) I hope that wasn't too confusing for some of you, and apologies about the length of my post. If anybody has more information than I do, feel free to correct me!

And here I am :D. Although you had some of your wires mixed up, it was a good effort :D


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:31 am 
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Ugh, looks like my 520HX developed some coil buzz issues. Do these things ever suddenly pop up after a month of quiet operation?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:44 pm 
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Arrrrhhh my Corsair vx450w is buzzing and it's driving me crazy )= )= )=

I'm going to read the rest of this thread to see what I can do about it. I suppose I'll either try to return it, or buy another PSU.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:44 am 
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I just exchanged a buzzing VX450 to a non buzzining VX450 this one is quiet


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:06 am 
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welcome to the world of electronics. this type of stuff has been happening to everyone for a while now. Its not just PSU's. Monitors, motherboards, hell even things like GPS units and stereo equipment suffer from it. Anything that has electricity flowing through it has the potential of having coil whine.

Chances are most of you have owned a PSU in the past that exhibited this problem, but either the fan in it was so loud, or your computer was so loud you never noticed it. Fan noise is very good at masking coil whine, which is why you may not have noticed this problem before on other PSU's.

Just RMA your PSU as defective, which it is, and get a new one that doesnt whine. Pretty simple really, doesnt need a 7page forum posting about it.

Your very small sampling thus far, from the people posting on this thread is nothing compared to the total volume they are shipping out. It could be that the retailer your getting them from got a bad batch, it happens. Just because you got one that whines doesnt mean that every PSU from manufacturer X and model Y is bad.

Just because your forum post may seem like it has lots of replies about this same issue, you have to remember that people who dont have a problem, dont post. So you really cant take this small sampling on this post as an indicator of every PSU with this model number.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:46 pm 
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What Aris said is fair enough. I just want to add that I contacted Corsair support and they were extremely helpful and they let me RMA the unit. I haven't sent it back yet, but, you know, I don't want to bad-mouth Corsair in this thread. If you get a buzzer, they'll take it back. I guess that's the most you can ask of a company.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:09 am 
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My system (see signature) is rather quiet, though not silent, but I never noticed any buzz coming from my HX520W (bought one month ago).

When looking for a modular PSU, don't overlook the Antec NeoHE ! I regret I didn't buy one instead...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:34 am 
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Can someone please comment on the suggestion that a buzzing power supply is an indication that you've chosen a power supply that far exceeds your power requirements? For example, you've chosen a 500W power supply when all you really needed for your system was a 300W power supply, and that situation produces buzzing. The reason I mention this is that I read this suggestion on the Corsair support forums.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:33 pm 
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I don't own the hx520 but was thinking of buying it. I'm not sure what I'll do now after reading here.

I did do a search on google and came up with a comment (I assume from Corsair) posted on NCIX about someone having a buzzing noise. He claimed it might be a sticker inside coming loose and making the noise.

Although I'm not sure if its the same thing mentioned here or not. The guy who posted it is named yellowbeard.

('ll post the link in a reply because it won't let me post a link here for my first post).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:33 pm 
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http://forum.ncix.com/forums/index.php?mode=showthread&msg_id=1412857&threadid=1412857&forum=100&product_id=19831&msgcount=8&overclockid=0#msg1412857


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:27 pm 
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Shmanky wrote:
Can someone please comment on the suggestion that a buzzing power supply is an indication that you've chosen a power supply that far exceeds your power requirements? For example, you've chosen a 500W power supply when all you really needed for your system was a 300W power supply, and that situation produces buzzing. The reason I mention this is that I read this suggestion on the Corsair support forums.
there is a germ of truth in this idea, but in most practical cases, a "too small" load will not be the source of noise.

a transformer that is designed for a minimum load can resonate/whine/buzz/etc if there is no load. but the minimum load required to reduce the resonance to imperceptible is very low -- maybe 5-10 watts at most.

more often there will be issues with noise on power supplies because of (1) manufacturing defects and (2) dirty power. Note that (2) dirty power may be something like having an old halogen light on the same circuit or other device that puts out noise on the line.

To test for (2), plug your PC into an isolation transformer. If the whine in your PSU persists, then the problem is (1) and you should exchange your PSU.

Make sure your isolation transformer is rated to handle the wattage of your PC. Usually a 500VA rating is more than sufficient, but larger systems may require 750/1000 VA.

If you do not have access to an isolation transformer, run a quality extension cord, 10 AWG preferably, to a separate circuit in your house/office. Plug your system into a different circuit using this extension cord. Provided there is not contamination in your main panel, you will be able to tell if using a different circuit makes a difference.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:52 pm 
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Looks like I have a different issue with my HX520, sounds like the fan is failing..it's making a loud grinding type noise now. :/ This is going to be quite annoying to replace.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:01 am 
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tc93 wrote:


I think that guy's overreacting. He says he's got his ear all the way up to the PSU and then he can hear a buzz. I can also hear a every so slight buzz if I go behind my computer and stick my ear to the PSU, but it it very faint. As soon as I distance myself from the PSU a bit, I can't hear it any longer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Just sent mine in for RMA. Tried on multiple computers, didn't make a difference. Only time the coil whine stopped was when scrolling the mouse wheel.

This happened to me with a Seasonic S12-430w in the past, RMA'd and the unit that came in return was SILENT. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:10 am 
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Since I was so relieved to find this thread when I first heard my HX520 I just have to reply after 'solving' my issues.

I've now had a total of 3 HX520s (all rev. B2W) that squealed. Luckily the retailer was lenient enough to have me choose another PSU altogether after the 3rd RMA.

I went with a Seasonic S12II-380. With all the previous disappointments my hopes weren't too high, but guess what, no squeal whatsoever!

The seasonic doesn't even tick on no / low load. The only 'noise' coming from it is the fan's airflow hitting the fangrill. So if that still bothers you I'd opt for a fanswap or just taking the grill out.

So bottom line, if you don't need the wattage of the HX series and can bring yourself to losing modulair cables the S12II-380 is your friend!

Can't vouch for the higher wattage S12IIs, just had to share my experience with the 380 version.

Best of luck to everyone still in the midst of replacing their HXs!

PS. if you need help convincing your retailer, feel free to use the files (recordings) found here.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:39 am 
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I've got my hands on a cheap used HX620W,and at that time,I did not notice this simptom in that system
it did not have warranty (lost documents)

It makes kind of a buzzing/ rattling noise , that's very low in intensity in idle (but I can still notice it,maybe others won't) and intensifies on load

the best comparison I can think of i s a rattle snake's sound (it sounds really similar,although the snake in the video is much louder) : Rattling snake

it's not a high pitch sound,like a whine... my video card does that in some very-high FPS game videos and the sounds differs

I've opened the casing and noticed that one coil was moving loose,without anything to fix it down (I did not notice any glue in the casing)

the coil is this one (pictures form reviews):
- the one on the left
- the one on the left
- the one on the left
- this one

could this be the cause for the noise?
how do I fix that (I don't know what type of glue they use there and how easy would be to find something like that)?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:53 am 
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You need a hot glue gun. My brother has one lying around to fix audio things like crossovers and amplifiers, when he hears some squealing coming off them he starts wielding that gun and scares me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:24 am 
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mascotzel wrote:
It makes kind of a buzzing/ rattling noise , that's very low in intensity in idle (but I can still notice it,maybe others won't) and intensifies on load


I second the hot glue gun. For reference: http://www.xinloong.com.my/publish/image.htm?code=94.

Before you start spewing searing-hot adhesive substances, are you absolutely sure it's the coil and not the fan? Rattling-kind-of-buzzing immediately brings to mind that something's gone wrong with the fan's bearings, or maybe the baffle has dislocated, or maybe there's a loose wire or dustbunny in there. Of course you know the characteristics best: if the sound changes immediately after load is applied, it's probably electronics and not the temperature-adjusted fan.

I don't know enough about electronics to recommend you push the coil down with something non-conductive to verify the noise source (but that's what I would do, I have a pencil with an eraser at the end for that), but you can stop the fan if you'd like.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:45 am 
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the coil is inaccesibile from the outside if the casing isn't removed,so I'd have to poke around the coils while the cover is off,and I don't know how risky is that (in burning the PSU and/or the rest of my PC or getting myself electrocuted)

at 0 load the fan does not start and the PSU rattles very loud ...I haven't tried with a low load like a fan connected to it

I don't really know if it's the coil,but it does move around and there's not a single drop of glue there

I'm 100% sure it's not the fan,unless there could be noise form the electricity going through the fan,because when I stop the fan(poke something soft between the blades) the noise is still there...and I will do a fan swap anyway if I get rid of the buzz noise (otherwise I'll give the PSU to someone that is not bothered by it)

hot glue guns are widely spread,just yesterday I looked at some in a shop wondering if it will work...the original yellow glue is harder to the touch (not gummy) and I don't know if there are any conductivity issues or how the glue reacts to temperature


Last edited by mascotzel on Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:00 am 
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The noise being present while fan is off definitely rules out the fan.

Sticking ANYTHING in a PSU connected to live curret is obviously risky, Darwin Award worthy to say the least, but it can be done without loss of life or limb. The DC side is relatively safe even, and PSU protection mechanisms are much faster than house fuses... But yeah, let's not.

Hot glue gets used all the time on electronics, so I doubt there are conductivity or degradation issues. It and blu-tack are the two most common fixes for coils and capacitor issues I know. I'd just make sure to buy the gun and sticks from a reputable shop and not a firm that also sold glitter with the package (like the one in my linked picture might). :lol:

So if you're out of warranty and it's not the fan, the only options left are to mod or quit.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Add me to the list of HX520 users with a terrible buzzing. It began a few days ago and has worsened. It does so at idle. I had to stop every other fan in order to isolate it (8800GT, Antec Tri-cool, and Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro H/S fan).

I bought this from Amazon less than a year ago, so I need to review their return/exchange policy, although I would love to stop the fan just to see if that is what I am hearing, rather than a coil whine or buzz.


edit: in the mean-time, would anyone offer their opinion on whether the computer in my signature would run well enough on an Antec Earthwatts 380? I happen to have a new one as a back-up.

edit #2: MAJOR CORRECTION
I felt I should correct myself in this post by editing 2 days after my original posting. The buzzing I am hearing is NOT coming from the PSU. Though my fan exhibits a clicking noise that is only audible within 1 meter, I feel I should correct my misstep in posting false info about my HX520W. It has been removed from my case, yet I still have something buzzing. It took some time for it to rear it's ugly head after swapping my Corsair with an Antec, but it is definitely not a PSU issue. The buzzing I hear now is identical to that before. So, at this point, I can only speculate about the cause, so I won't bother.

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Last edited by Wedge on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:59 pm 
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@Wedge: I've stopped my HX520's fan with a pen, should be safe to do so. The rig in your sig looks good to go on 380W.

I took a look at some power consumption measurements of 8800 GTs just to be safe: http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/gainward-bliss-8800gt/bliss8800glh_power.gif. Less than 100W for GPU, rest of the system will be (un)lucky to draw half as much, you're good to go.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:08 am 
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Posts: 1356
Location: NorthEast Arkansas, USA
It's the fan. It starts off with a soft clicking noise. Leaving the PC on for a while allows it to progress into a louder "buzz".

Options:
a) RMA
b) Experement with a fan swap

?


@Das_Saunamies, thanks for the info. I have the Antec 380 in now, and it runs fine. My only complaint - it just isn't as quiet as a quiet PSU can be.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:17 am 
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@Wedge Old Antecs man, just not worth it. Not really quiet or quality; I've fried two in normal use (the ones Sonata and Sonata II shipped with, just didn't last, both went up in flames).

If you're still within warranty, I'd definitely go for an RMA, Corsair has good customer service. If you've got receipts and everything you might even go to your retailer, though I'm not sure if a shop can get the RMA done any faster.

Up to you if you want to keep trying with the HX520W or buy some other, more modern PSU off the SPCR Recommended list. Personally, I always buy a different model if one lets me down, then RMA and sell the replacement I get. Keeps the rig fresh and prevents frustration.

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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