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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:42 pm 
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mastabog wrote:

A claim of "no whine/buzz" will look more credible if the claimer specifies the system specs so the reader will have a better idea, this includes:

- fans model
- number of fans
- voltage/rpm of fans
- hdds
- video card (or video card cooler if it was replaced)
- distance to the unit for normal usage
- unit position (e.g. under the desk)


Are trying to get to the bottom of this, or run an inquisition? To be fair, to get to the bottom of it, people experiencing the buzz/whine should publish the same information. I say this because I noticed a similarity between the the non buzzers, myself included - The presence of an x1950, power sucking vid card. This could be a coincidence, but is it not possible that a higher load on the PSU is having an effect? It's fairly well documented that PSUs are less efficient under a low load. If so, that would make this PSU appropriate to some systems, but not others. My interest here is that I'm thinking of replacing my 4 HDDs with 2 notebook drives, which would reduce the load on the PSU.

In my case (pardon the pun):

Heavily dampened Sonata II (A buildup of foiled backed butyl, self stick floor tiles and accoustic foam.)
MSI P6N SLI Platinum
e6600 stock speed
Zalman ZALMAN CNPS7700-CU HSF, dialed down to minimum fanspeed
Passively cooled x1950Pro 256
4) WD Caviar RE WD1600YS
1) Nexus 120 case fan dialed to about 80% via a Zalman fanmate
4 x 1 gig Kingston DDR2 667

Since my last post in this thread I have suspended the HDD's, though they remain the noisiest element of my system.
The computer is about two feet from where I sit, directly at ear level. I hear zero whining or buzzing from the PSU.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:48 pm 
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That's a good point. Load has been proven to affect PSU noise in certain cases.

Non-UPS experiment is delayed due to lack of regular cords. :(

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:45 am 
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:) not trying to run an inquisition at all. Just stating that a claim of no buzz or whine becomes more credible when accompanied by other info about the system and its usage. Most people in this thread have done so in a fair amount already, i wasn't trying to slap anyone :) quite the contrary, I greatly appreciate all the feedback and discussion till now.

I have an x1950xt now which is a bit more than double the power of my former 7900gt. The PSU buzzes the same way as with the 7900gt so (at least in my case) the buzz is not dependent on the load added by the video card. At the outlet I measured a max of 265W with the x1950xt whereas the maximum recorded with the 7900gt was ~215W when it was heavily overclocked (450 -> 600 mhz). System at idle is ~110W.

One more point is that the high pitch, slightly chirping buzz/whine I was talking about for the two HX520 models I tried is constantly there, whether at low load or high load. At high load there are some additional chirping (quite funny sometimes) depending on the video card activity but there is definitely one whine that is omnipresent regardless of the load.

My specs right now are:

- Antec P160, heavily damped
- Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B, fanless
- 2 Nexus 12cm at ~650rpm (one intake, one exhaust) - inaudible at 10cm
- x1950xt with arctic cooling accelero x2 @ 18% (~690 rpm) - inaudible at 10cm
- 2 x Samsung SP2504C 250Gb, suspended
- PC sits under the desk, PSU is ~80cm away.

(nexus fans and accelero x2 ramp up when gaming, above are the settings for idle/desktop operation)

I can hear the PSU whine wherever I sit, even from 2 meters away. It's definitely higher pitch than the hdds >7.2KHz. I'd say something closer to 10KHz.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:27 am 
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Im having high frequency buzz 3 days already and it makes me crazy.

I thought it was only me who had that problem but it seems alot people have this problem.

Today Im going to the store where I bought PSU (Seasonic SII-12 430W) and they will test it there, and I hope they will give me new PSU if it will buzz there.

Im just wondering why did buzz started only 3 days after I bought it (PSU is 6 days old)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:18 am 
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mastabog wrote:

I can hear the PSU whine wherever I sit, even from 2 meters away. It's definitely higher pitch than the hdds >7.2KHz. I'd say something closer to 10KHz.
At 10KHz, that would eliminate abused middle aged hearing as well. :o


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:02 am 
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Hmm, until I read so many posts about buzzing/whining HX520Ws I was looking seriously at this PSU and now I don't know where to look.

Is there any PSU equivelant to the HX that has all the features but is silent with no buzzing? I have had a buzzing GFX card in the past and it drove me insane so I can't be doing with a PSU doing a similar thing.

What makes it worse is I am in the UK and no doubt RMA'ing to the US will cost a small fortune.

Cheers,

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:30 am 
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Maybe the new Nexus line? They make the quiet reference fan, so there's hope, and the PSUs are modular. There's also a 400W model for low power systems(300W is true low power but hey, 21st century), although I have no solid efficiency data available.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:11 am 
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stormy wrote:
What makes it worse is I am in the UK and no doubt RMA'ing to the US will cost a small fortune.

You don't need to RMA to the US, if you're not happy just send it back to the retailer you bought it from.

You can return anything bought online for a full refund, for any reason, within 7 days under the Distance Selling Regulations, but if the PSU is buzzing/whining you don't even need to rely on the DSR - it's neither of "satisfactory quality" nor "fit for the purpose" (particularly given the fact that it's marketed as a quiet PSU) according to the Sale & Supply of Goods Act.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:16 am 
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Thats true I suppose.

Is anyone using the new Cooler Master Real Power PSUs?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=631248

Marketed at <16db although I doubt its that in practice.

Mike


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:30 am 
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Just to confirm, you can send it back no questions asked within 7 days for a full refund. I did this many times. Did it with the 1st HX520 from ebuyer and will probably do it again with this 2nd one.

I haven't heard anything about the new CoolerMaster. However, their previous line of silent PSUs, the iGreen, were not so silent at all and were rated at 17dba.

As a general rule, in my experience, 16dba is un-measurable except in acoustic chambers where the ambient noise is ~16dba. In usual scenarios (quiet homoe/office) the ambient noise is around 19dba. My BS detectors are almost always triggered by 16dba claims, unless made by companies with a respectable background. Just my 2c.

I may try a Nexus PSU, even if spcr showed its fan ramps up pretty quickly - with ~90W DC load at idle it might not ramp up.

Edit: looking on the spcr forums, i found this post speaking about the nexus 500w model which is supposed to be the quietest: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... 362#352362 (apparently it is). He also links to a review where the HX520 and the nx-8050 are put head to head. No mention of electrical whine/buzz ...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:01 am 
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Btw, the HX520 review from johnnygury also mentions the buzzing noise: http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details ... page_num=2

But as we said previously, it all depends what else you have in the case, how far you sit and how the pc is positioned, etc. Of course, we might have been unlucky (although I won't be trying a 3rd hx520).


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:58 am 
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Can anyone comment on the following power supplies as potential alternatives to the Corsair HX520?:

Silverstone Strider ST60F 600W
Thermaltake ToughPower W0128 650W
Corsair HX620 (does it have the buzz/whine, too?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:25 am 
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So far there no reported such buzz / whine in HX620 version.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:50 pm 
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There was an interesting comment about buzzing PSUs in this xtremesystems.com thread:

"5 - Remove the crap plastic shorting strips, cut them and then glue two patches to the side to prevent shorts (if not removed, your PSU will whine over 700 ~ 800 watts load)(All Toughpower and many other PSUs have these to prevent shorts)" jayhall0315

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... p?t=152972

Is there any supporting evidence to back this up?

It's not something I can remember being mentioned anywhere. :(


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:46 pm 
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mastabog wrote:
Btw, the HX520 review from johnnygury also mentions the buzzing noise: http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details ... page_num=2

Hot off the press: Hitler invades Poland... :P

thejamppa wrote:
So far there no reported such buzz / whine in HX620 version.

Sadly, not the case

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=61810


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Ok, i missed that one by you (in my own thread...) :D.

The whine i hear is of high frequency, i don't think those plastic strips have anything to do with it (plus it mentions 700-800W ... that must be a really sick rig to suck up 800W).

I might try the nx-8050 from novatech.co.uk, it's the same price as the HX520 (~68 quid). We must find one that doesn't buzz or whine, come on ... :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:09 am 
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What about Zalman ZM600 & Co.?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:13 am 
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No idea about Zalman, but SPCR has reviewed a fresh one. Unfortunately it's another high-power model, and not something in the range people are urged to actually choose from. An older 460W model is low but still on the recommended list.

No surprise that the 600W isn't suitable for a low-power system, but the newer 360W and 460W B models are tempting.

I'm feeling the case with Nexus supplies might mirror the Zalmans: hi-power models get stick for aggressive cooling and low-power models end up on the recommended list. :idea: Review low-power models damnit!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:28 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
No idea about Zalman, but SPCR has reviewed a fresh one. Unfortunately it's another high-power model, and not something in the range people are urged to actually choose from. An older 460W model is low but still on the recommended list.

No surprise that the 600W isn't suitable for a low-power system, but the newer 360W and 460W B models are tempting.

I'm feeling the case with Nexus supplies might mirror the Zalmans: hi-power models get stick for aggressive cooling and low-power models end up on the recommended list. :idea: Review low-power models damnit!

:?
At the time of the Zalman ZM600HP review, the 500W version had not been released. Also, the 460B and 360B models are minor updates based on upgrades from the ODM, Fortron-Source. The only real difference looks like slightly higher 12V current and slightly lower 5/3.3V current.

Given the performance of fans and fan controllers in all FSP-sourced PSUs review to date, it's very unlikely that these models would provide any kind of real competition (for acoustics) against the Corsairs, Seasonics & Antecs that top the SPCR recommended PSU lists.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:41 am 
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Alrighty, thanks for the hard facts Mike.

Also, here's something new and interesting about the buzzing: there was none today, even after four hours of gaming(BF2142). I got onto my knees and crept up to the PSU to listen, but there was utter buzz-silence, only the fan noise was to be heard. But then, as I moved my hand towards the back grill to judge temperature, a buzz! A very recongizable electric BZZZ sound that grew as I drew closer. It vanished the second I withdrew my limb.

Sooo any electricians care to pitch in what that's all about? Any relevance to case at hand, or just some obvious phenomenon that I just haven't witnessed with any of my six PSUs? :D

So today there is no buzz even, at high temperatures, didn't even return with standy power loads.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:10 am 
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System 1 “silenciumâ€


Last edited by walle on Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:01 am 
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mastabog wrote:
I might try the nx-8050 from novatech.co.uk, it's the same price as the HX520 (~68 quid). We must find one that doesn't buzz or whine, come on ... :)


Let me know how you go with the Nexus, I am looking at either the Nexus or the Corsair, Scan in the UK are waiting for stock of the Corsair and it seems cheap so might risk "one shot" at the Corsair and see if it whines on my system and if so DSR it back and go for the Nexus. Scan don't seem to list these. :( Might see if they will stock it as they are usually very well priced with most things.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:08 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Sooo any electricians care to pitch in what that's all about? Any relevance to case at hand, or just some obvious phenomenon that I just haven't witnessed with any of my six PSUs? :D

It’s possible that when you placed your hand in front of the power supply exhaust you amplified the sound by "trapping" it. This is comming from a layman (no electrician) who just happens to love sticking his neck out from time to time...ready to be beheaded.

Das_Saunamies wrote:
So today there is no buzz even, at high temperatures, didn't even return with standy power loads.

Your power supply has split personalities? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:09 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Alrighty, thanks for the hard facts Mike.

Also, here's something new and interesting about the buzzing: there was none today, even after four hours of gaming(BF2142). I got onto my knees and crept up to the PSU to listen, but there was utter buzz-silence, only the fan noise was to be heard. But then, as I moved my hand towards the back grill to judge temperature, a buzz! A very recongizable electric BZZZ sound that grew as I drew closer. It vanished the second I withdrew my limb.

Sooo any electricians care to pitch in what that's all about? Any relevance to case at hand, or just some obvious phenomenon that I just haven't witnessed with any of my six PSUs? :D

So today there is no buzz even, at high temperatures, didn't even return with standy power loads.


:shock: Damn! Have you thought about calling a priest or an exorcist?

The only thing I can think of to explain that phenomenon is a loose mechanical connection in the PSU. While it seems that the movement of your hand is causing the change, it's the shifting of your weight that's ever so slightly shifting your computer and shifting whatever is loose into a more buzz prone position. As unlikely as that seems, I'm at a loss for any other explanation.

Another thing occurs to me. If I have a main complaint about this unit, it's that the sockets on the PSU seem loose compared with those on any mobo I've used. (This is my first modular PSU) I'm thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the buzz could be coming from these.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:16 am 
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I think I will take a chance on a Corsair when I get my PSU. I read reviews on newegg for the Silverstone and Enermax modular PSUs that are comparable in price and wattage to the Corsair and I think there's mixed reviews. It doesn't sound like there is a competitor for the Corsair as far as a modular unit goes. I don't want to take a chance on an obscure brand name and I want a modular PSU. Hopefully, the buzz won't exist in the PSU I end up ordering or that you guys discover the source of the buzzing. Afterall, it could be something leaning or grazing the PSU or some other culprit, perhaps? I know one of my old computers was built using a really cheap case and if you don't stick something in the grill, it makes an awful loud knocking noise. The case was $30 and if it was a more modern computer, I'd get a new case. I won't be buying a cheapie case again as it's too much trouble/annoyance.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:27 am 
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@MikeC:
Considering how many Seasonic built PSUs are in the recommended list, and how common the coil buzz is in these models, I am dissapointed that in the (now) 4-page thread on this issue you only commented on the Zalman and Fortron-built PSUs.
This coil buzz issue is not trifling, since people - me included - pay more money on a Seasonic, instead of some other PSU, in order to get lower noise levels.
I believe Seasonic should address this issue (BTW, what exactly casues it could be investigated by SPCR), in order to fully deserve their good reputation.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:38 am 
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Tzupy wrote:
@MikeC:
Considering how many Seasonic built PSUs are in the recommended list, and how common the coil buzz is in these models, I am dissapointed that in the (now) 4-page thread on this issue you only commented on the Zalman and Fortron-built PSUs.
This coil buzz issue is not trifling, since people - me included - pay more money on a Seasonic, instead of some other PSU, in order to get lower noise levels.
I believe Seasonic should address this issue (BTW, what exactly casues it could be investigated by SPCR), in order to fully deserve their good reputation.

What comment can we make if we've rarely encountered it ourselves? :? :roll:

It's true -- Seasonic-built PSUs are in use all over the lab in the systems we assemble, both the long term ones and numerous short-term builds for various testing (cases, etc). We just don't encounter it, at least nothing seriously audible enough to make us stop and reconsider our assessments.

We did report on some mild buzz in the HX620 review sample at <65W loads, but it was not enough for us to consider a serious noise breach.

To suggest that PSU buzzing is a Seasonic-specific problem seems unfair. It occurs in all kinds of power products from every brand. The SPCR audience hears and reports it more frequently simply because these PSUs are quiet enough for buzz to be audible, because we collectively build systems that are quiet enough for it to be audible, and because this audience is listening for it. The number of pages this thread has grown to does not suggest any kind of "epidemic" like the NeoHE poll (which went to 11 pages and 226 respondents). Remember, SPCR is visited by many many thousands of people who quietly take in the advice of the reviews, articles and forum discussions and make purchases without ever saying a word. Even 226 respondents is barely a drop in the bucket in the context of those numbers. If Corsair sold 3000 PSUs in the span of 9 mos (or whatever), how many would you expect to have some kind of problems? 1%? That's 30. Do we have 30 here? I don't think so. And if there is 1% that are anomalous, should this be considered a crucifiable sin? NOT!

I would suggest that to get some kind of handle on whether buzzing in Corsair PSUs is really as common as you seem to think, you start a poll modeled on the NeoHE poll, inviting ALL Corsair PSU users to respond.

Capacitors and inductors are obvious components that buzz, but I've heard that even transistors and diodes can buzz as well. The cause is unlikely to be singular, as there always seems to be some level of interaction with components that the PSU is driving.

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Last edited by MikeC on Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:31 am 
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walle wrote:
It’s possible that when you placed your hand in front of the power supply exhaust you amplified the sound by "trapping" it. --
Your power supply has split personalities? :lol:


Nope. It was certainly generated, not channeled. And the buzz is a %¤"#!!: there was none initially, then some days later it began, then went away and hasn't come back. :?
I can now no longer generate the buzz, perhaps it was just some static buildup that has since been released from me or the grill.

JoeWPgh wrote:
The only thing I can think of to explain that phenomenon is a loose mechanical connection in the PSU.


Heh, I'm not too worried about the buzzing, so no exorcists... 8) and all the connections have been double-checked, wires isolated and live ends tucked away from conductive materials. The PSU is screwed down with all four screws, and I've used silicone washers. I checked the screws for looseness, it's solid.

Also, just to note: my buzzing issues are with an S12II, not an HX. I'm writing this down as a hi-fi hiccup, an unforeseen event at the advent of new technology. I got lucky with my buzz I guess... had it persisted I would have returned the PSU to manufacturer and bought an older S12.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:00 pm 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Also, just to note: my buzzing issues are with an S12II, not an HX. I'm writing this down as a hi-fi hiccup, an unforeseen event at the advent of new technology. I got lucky with my buzz I guess... had it persisted I would have returned the PSU to manufacturer and bought an older S12.


Some are lucky campers. I tried two of them, did not work, did not like the new fan either. I suppose we both should write this down as hi-fi hiccup...unforseen advents of new technology (nicely put by the way), though I will stick to the "old" S12 technology 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:06 pm 
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Das_Saunamies wrote:
Also, just to note: my buzzing issues are with an S12II, not an HX. I'm writing this down as a hi-fi hiccup, an unforeseen event at the advent of new technology. I got lucky with my buzz I guess... had it persisted I would have returned the PSU to manufacturer and bought an older S12.

I'm glad you don't have the buzz. But I want to clarify what I meant by mechanical connection. It could be the screws that mount the PSU, just as it could be loose plugs in it's sockets. But it could also be a loose screw inside, holding the PCB to the case, or a capacitor/inductor/transistor etc whose vibration is causing it to chatter on the PCB or somehow transmit sound beyond it's inherent noise.

'Buzz' likely has different definitions to us all. To my ears, it's a description of a mechanical noise. Aside from the buzz of a ground loop through speakers, electronic components don't buzz. They whine, they ring, they hum, maybe even squeal, but they don't buzz unless something is loose enough to 'rattle'.

Maybe I'm all wet, but when I see the word buzz, that's what it describes to me.
Anyway, glad you don't need the exorcist :)


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