Confused, need advise on PS selection

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Thu May 29, 2003 9:32 am

Hi guys:

The more I study it the less I know. I'm really hoping for some good advise or opinions here. Here's the dilema:

I will have:
- XP Pro on:
- new Lian-li PC-6070 (the new "quiet" model) case due tomorrow.
- it has 1 rear and 2 front case fans - I'll plug in as necessary
- the new P4 3.0GHz
- D865GBF w800Mhz bus Intel MB
- (2) PC3200/DDR400 512
- (2) 200G IDE
- (2) 9G U160 SCSI's.
- Adaptec U160 PCI
- A video card later
- DVD reader
- DVD burner
- no casemods (neon, etc.)- business only PC

I'll be doing video mpeg encoding with this puppy.

I want a PS that can handle the load but be as quiet as possible. In particular when the PC is IDLE, I don't want to listen to the HD - I might need a nap <g>. Quiet as possible while working woudl be nice, too.

I've studied and studied, and it SEEMS like a 300w would do, but I'm aprehensive due to good marketing I suppose. I was looking at the:

Nexus 3000
- very good review
- possible problems with seagate drives (both my SCSI's match the potential pblm drives) per threads here.
- maybe not enough power
- little more expensive at $75

SilenX 400 14dba
- tarnished reputation due to unethical behavior here - wary
- good review
- quiet but hot unless only cooling itself. Maybe my extra case fans can take the extra load and this one would be OK?
- $99US + ship - high but I don't care if it will work

FSP300-60PN Fortron Source
- found here, no reviews per se, but lots of comments on forum
- may not be big enough
- conflicting opinions on noise
- big fan.
- dirt cheap <$40

Seasonic SS-400
- decent review
- cheap enough but higher at $85US.
- interesting fan control may meet my desire for quieter at idle.

Fortron Source 350-400x? Not sure about these.

Price isn't a factor here. I'm happy to pay for what's best for the need.

Can someone offer some direction for me?

Thanks very much for the time to help.
Scott

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu May 29, 2003 11:14 am

shorton wrote:
SilenX 400 14dba
- tarnished reputation due to unethical behavior here - wary
- good review
- quiet but hot unless only cooling itself. Maybe my extra case fans can take the extra load and this one would be OK?
- $99US + ship - high but I don't care if it will work

Scott

Welcome Scott.

In response to the quote above, there is a 400W silenx PSU available from ExoticPC.com which is a different vendor than the silenx.com Silenx PSU. FWIW.

My $.02 is that any of the PSU's on your list will be suitable if your case is otherwise properly cooled. If you'd like a quiet PC, you'll need to direct some attention to those 4 HDDs. They will not only generate noise (even if you use 4 Seagates or other quiet drives...is there another quiet-ish SCSI drive?? I don't know.), but they will also produce a fair amount of heat which will add to your case temps. Hence the need to properly vent your case, or you will have a bunch of hot air accumulating in the PSU which will cause the temperature controlled PSU fan to ramp up and add noise to the system. I'll bet your HDD noise will be greater than the fan noise you'll get from any of the PSUs you listed (again with proper case cooling).

PS. I appreciate your well-researched question/post.

Hope you'll find the help here that you need to end up with a PSU that meets your goals.

EDIT: PPS. I realize you asked for help choosing among the various PSUs, but as your post illustrates, there are pros and cons to each model. Sorry I can't help you narrow it down more.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Thu May 29, 2003 12:10 pm

shorton,

I'd rule out Nexus first as it tends to get quite loud in a hot case. Yes, it can be quite silent if the case is cool, but if case temps rise, so does the fan rpm and you get quite a bit of noise (at least by SilentPC standards).

As for the Forton FSP, I'm assuming that you are in USA in which case this would make sense. I don't know how the NON-PF PSU fares inside a hot case, but the PF version does not do well (noisy).

SilenX I have no experience with, but you should read Dave's experience with it:

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=4719

Even if yours work as nicely as some people here have experienced, it will NOT push a lot of air (hence your case will get even hotter).

Then we get onto the PSU I'm going to try myself next: Seasonic SS-series (with active pfc). It has the highest rated (and measured) efficiency. Mike tends to like it after a fan swap (say Panaflo M1A). I'm personally hoping this one won't be such a let down, as the fan controller is different from other PSUs.

My suggestion and this is based on a lot of guessing would be to get the FSP350 (non-PF) model cheaply locally if you can and test if for yourself. It should be enough for your power requirements. If it's not noisy, then stick with it. If it's too noisy for you, then it shouldn't be too costly to get rid of it.

If it fails, I'd probably try the SS400FS with a Panaflo + fan isolators myself.

That's just my opinion. It could well be that the SilenX is the best ready-made choice for you, if your case cooling will be sufficient without any PSU fan action.

regards,
Halcyon

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Thu May 29, 2003 12:25 pm

aphonos:

Good point. IF all are to be drowned out by the drives, then any would do. If the Fortron 350 has enough umph, it's the cheapest not much point in not trying it.

halcyon:

As I eluded above, your suggestion seems reasonable. Thanks for the tip on the Nexus. I also looked at their NX4000, but it, too is pricey (not that I care if I KNEW it was best).

If they are all similar in noise levels, I am leaning toward the big-fanned Fortron 350. I am in US so the non-PF should be available (although it's not clear who has by their part mumbers). Cheap enough to not hurt if I hate it. And the SS-400 may be the next alternative to try if it dosen't work out. It would be nice to only have case cooling on demand so I think maybe I'll shy away from the low-flow SilenX.

So I'm leaning to Fortron 350 or SS-400. All the places I looked didn't have quite the exact part number quoted in the discussions about it here. Last digits were different - Px instead of PN.

My only concern now is the issue some others identified withthe whining seagate drives. I saw a post where someone said it was a known problem and a known fix was to use ferite beads, but they didnt' say where. You or anyone know where that "fix" is posted in detail?

Other opinions still very welcome re PC selection.

Cheers,
Scott

DanOnKeys · Post by **DanOnKeys** » Thu May 29, 2003 12:27 pm

Faced with a similar decision, I went with the SeaSonic as well. I haven't swapped out the fan (yet) -- and I'm very happy with the noise it (doesn't) make(s) [it's quiet]. Just my opinion.

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Thu May 29, 2003 12:55 pm

Dan:

Is yours the SS-400?

Thanks, Scott

DanOnKeys · Post by **DanOnKeys** » Thu May 29, 2003 1:02 pm

Yes: SS-400FS to be precise (it's in my sig)

. I picked it after doing some research here and scouring the net for reviews. I've been very happy with it.

wussboy · Post by **wussboy** » Thu May 29, 2003 2:25 pm

That's good to hear, Dan. That PSU is the backbone of my gaming system I plan on building in the next 8 months or so (getting ready for D3 and HL2).

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:07 am

Just whe I thought SS-400 was teh way to go, some posts a review essentiall dogging it.

(

http://www.lanaddict.com/review.php?ID=74

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:37 pm

shorton,

I've read even a less flattering review of Seasonic SS-series

However, I checked with Mike and he's had no problems with several of his Seasonic SS-series PSUs.

This is not to say that the Seasonic is necessarily always the best and without any faults at all. I'm just writing this to remind that perhaps a single review is not the final truth in all matters.

Regards,
Halcyon

PS I should get my seasonic SS350FS tomorrow (I hope). I will report back on the voltage regulation and whether there are potentiometers to adjust the rails separately.

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:42 am

Halcyon:

Thanks, yes, after mushing over it (yet again), I decided I think I'd try the SS, too. I think I'll try th e350 as well since other posts by you and others indicated this one runs perhaps slightly better than the 400. Then again, that Foutron 350 with the 120MM fan is still looking very interesting, if I can figure out exactly which model and where to get it <g>. I think it's the FSP350-60PN and in non-PF mode? I've seen resellers with them but they didn't list the model as "PN".

Let me/us know what you find about your SS. Are you gonna change the fan right off the bat? I figured I would if I went that way. Might as well be as happy as possible right off..

Cheers,
Scott

rpc180 · Post by **rpc180** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:38 am

I would think that going with the 120 Fortron would be beneficial if you're looking for it to be the single exhast fan in the system. It seems to push a fair amount of air (and over a larger area) than most PSUs that are quiet. I know that recommendations are that the silent PSUs from Nexus/Zalman and others are recommended for use with an accompanying case fan as they can only effectively cool themselves and nto the system.

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:54 am

Well, I have the new "quiet" Lian-li PC-6070 alu case. It has 1 exhaust and 2 intake fans (which I was going to swap for the Panaflo L1A's (or maybe M's). So I have extra case cooling available. I was under the impression the 120 Fortron was as quiet as the others with the 80mm fans. Maybe not? Halcyon, (or anyone who can compare) didn't you try one of the 120mm Foutron 350's?

Thanks,
Scott

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:33 am

shorton,

I've only tried the passive PFC version of FSP300-60PN from Fortron.

It is not particularly silent compared to my Seasonic SS300FS, which I'm also having problems with now (coil whine?).

regards,
Halcyon

EDIT: Corrected a mistake in my inital post. There is no problem with the 5V voltage. I measured it with my Fluke 79 III TRMS meter and it's rock solid at 5V. MB voltage readings are not a good indication of PSU voltage stability.

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:22 am

Well:

I bit the bullet and went with the SS-400 with every intention to swap the fan per Mikes personal setup right off the bat. I ordered (5) M1A fans (@$7.52 each) with tach sense from Digikey, along with a couple L1A's to have on hand.

I also got a couple of "minimal" fan grills and I'll cut the stamped grills off the PS and case rear and replace with these minimal grills (see http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Qualtek ... Series.pdf Qualtek part# 08153, Digikey part CR180-ND). These look promising over regular wire grill for less noise, you may want to check them out. I'll report what I think of them.

I'll try the M1A in the SS first, then 3 more into the case, too. I'm hoping the 3 in the case will run slow enough (with MB control) to make me happy and the sys cool. I'll let everyone know how it goes when I get it assembled. Everything arriving next Tue. Maybe together by weekend.

Cheers,
Scott

Liquidated · Post by **Liquidated** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:44 pm

keep in mind when halcyon talks about his 350 fortron he's talking about the pfc version that doesn't seem to have the fan monitor.

I have the 350 120 sparkle and it's silent more than 3 feet away after about 5 seconds. If you are overseas though, well the fortron 120 with power correction is something to stay away from, from a silence point of view.

The thing that really turned me away from the lian li 6070 is the very real lack of front vents. since it feeds air from the bottom, make sure nothing is blocking the air flow for the intakes. Add feet to it if it's a problem and I doubt placing it on a carpet is a good idea.

Good luck with the seasonic let us know how it goes.

Cheers!
-Liq

shorton · Post by **shorton** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:38 pm

Liq:

Thanks for the tips. I went with the Seasonic and have replmt fans on the way, too.

The 6070 looks great so far. It's intake for the front case fans are on the bottom, immediately below the fans, and may be a little restrictive, have to see. But as for feet, it has good, thick/tall feet - the kind that turn out like duck feet. On my (pretty thick) carpet, the bottom still has clearance. But mine's on a hard surface so that wont' bother me anyway.

Cheers,
Scott

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:03 pm

Liquidated,

sorry, I try to indicate the PF version in my posts about the 60PN series, but apparently I don't always remember. So yes, 60PN(PF) means the passive PFC version, which seems to be noisier than the non-PFC one.

Also, the PF version DOES have a fan controller and the starting voltage is a very low of 3,5 volts.

However, it pretty quickly speeds up from this until the fan makes quite a lot of noise.

And the fan is not particularly noisy in other ways except that at a higher voltage it moves a lot of air.

The fan is 120x25mm Yate Loon Electronics D12SM-12. In fact at lower voltages it must be among the most silent fans I've ever had the pleasure of using, beating lowest speed 120mm Papst fans (at low voltage) easily while also having a wider usable voltage range (Yate Loon starts at below 5V).

regards,
Halcyon

Liquidated · Post by **Liquidated** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:34 am

no prob guy. And I agree, the yate loon is impressive. I'd replace the fan with a panaflo but I just don;t see a need and to be honest, I trust the yate has the cfm to support the psu.

Anyway sleeving came in so I got some fun lined up today!

Cheers!
-Liq

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:12 am

Halcyon : are you sure the fan in your PSU is a D12SM-12, and not a D12BM-12 ? I'm just wondering because I have the same PSU and it has a ball-bearing fan (the 'S' stands for sleeve-bearing, the 'B' stands for ball-bearing).

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:34 am

Kostik,

yes. I checked it two days ago and wrote the model number on paper.

Guess we have different bearings then? I find the fan very good at below 5V, but the controller really spoils the PSU for me, because it ups the voltage so fast.

cheers,
halcyon

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 4:34 am

Mine is a D12BM-12, and it has a sticker that says "ball bearing" on the side. While I was checking the fan, I shifted the thermistor a few millimeters away from the heatsink and it looks like it improved things a bit.

What about your seasonic SS-350FS ? I remember you had a coil whine problem. I'm considering buying it, but as I can't get the 350 I would have to buy the 400, and it's quite expensive. There's no way I'm paying €100 for a PSU that whines ! Did you manage to fix it ?

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:05 am

This review -- http://www.lanaddict.com/review.php?ID=74 -- is amusing. For once, someone actually considers the variances seen in the voltages while applying different loads. This is definitely one part of a good PSU review. The variances are 1% on the 3.3V line and 0.5% on both the 5V and 12V lines, which is excellent. But then he writes that he is "not thrilled by the mildly high output on the +12V rail". The "excess" voltage is a mere 0.35V.

Confused, need advise on PS selection

Confused, need advise on PS selection

Re: Confused, need advise on PS selection

well

Re: well