Seasonic shows X-Series, modular, 80 Plus Gold @ Computex

Post by **CA_Steve** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:14 am

Seasonic showed their X-Series at Computex. 80Plus Gold, fan turns on at > 20% load.

EDIT by Admin: Oct 16, 2009: A slight hijack of this thread to keep the existing discussion and comments about the SPCR review in one place:

X-650: Seasonic hits Gold

edh · Post by **edh** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:14 am

Good, now we just need some sensible wattage alternatives.

Post by **MikeC** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:06 am

Doubtful we'll see lower rated Gold 80+ PSUs any time in the near future. There's not enough benefit, not enough demand, too high cost and tough engineering challenge.

Highest efficiency for <200W will continue to come from a high eff. AC/DC brick + well designed DC/DC converter like picoPSU. >200W, Gold 80+ models (even if rated at >600W) will already reach >85%.

Techreport says..."it uses a second circuit board stuck right up against the modular connectors at the back to reduce the number of wires inside the casing." In fact, that secondary board contains all the circuitry to convert 12VDC to the lower DC voltages -- much like a picoPSU, but on a bigger board. There are many advantages of this independent DC/DC module... but I'll save the details for the review.

The main reason I bring this up is that Seasonic's DC/DC module presumably has very high efficiency, perhaps higher than the picoPSU, since it's a newer design with the luxury of larger components. Seasonic could market a standalone version of this circuit as a high-end in-case adjunct to AC/DC adapters -- many mini-ITX cases are coming with this type of setup already.

lm · Post by lm » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:51 am

Since the fan is off for <20% load, wouldn't that mean ridiculously high maximum power is good? Then it would be dead quiet.

For example I would perhaps prefer that the fan is off when my computer is idle or lightly loaded.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:09 am

Anybody have an idea of price in US$?

Can I get a 650W 80Plus Gold cheaper than the $180 M12D 750W which is 80Plus Silver? Should I expect the two to be about equal in price?

The links below are from earlier threads do those model numbers bear any relation to this new series or are they cheaper options (like say ODM/OEM only)?

three upcoming 80 Plus Gold Models?

Seasonic SS-550LT, SS-650KM, SS-750KM
SS-550LT
SS-650KM
SS-750KM

Is there an 80Plus Silver or Gold retail option that is cheaper than the M12D 750W or is that the mark to beat for all high efficiency retail options?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:08 pm

The problem of overbuying a high efficiency psu is really about cost imho. As long as you don't mind dropping extra cash, it's not going to hurt much in terms of low end efficiency since the difference is generally only a few watts at worst since they'll still be 80%+ efficient at most idle power amounts. Now I do want to see more high efficiency and low wattage models, but I don't think that's currently cost effective for anyone yet.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:04 pm

dhanson865 wrote:Anybody have an idea of price in US$?

They aren't available yet...so, no pricing.

"Seasonic expects X-Series power supplies to be available at online retailers in late July or early August."

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:34 pm

CA_Steve wrote:
dhanson865 wrote:Anybody have an idea of price in US$?
They aren't available yet...so, no pricing.

"Seasonic expects X-Series power supplies to be available at online retailers in late July or early August."

Which is why I specifically chose the phrasing I used. An idea of price is not the same as knowing the price. It's not uncommon for someone to know the intended positioning of an upcoming product but not know the exact price.

yuu · Post by **yuu** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:01 am

By reducing wires hopefully they mean entirely removing, those yellow, red, black wires, and all.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article898-page3.html

Enermax has the EDM450-650, but they still have some wires like the 24pin 8pin and 6pin

http://80plus.com/manu/psu/psu_reports/ ... Report.pdf

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:56 am

yuu wrote:By reducing wires hopefully they mean entirely removing, those yellow, red, black wires, and all.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article898-page3.html

Yes.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:03 pm

Seasonic has changed their US website but not for the Gold I was looking for.

Seasonic S12II Bronze at 330, 380, 430, 500
Seasonic M12II Bronze at 500 only

I guess the M12II 430 didn't sell well vs the cheaper Corsair VX450W and S12II non 80Plus models.

I'll be looking forward to Mike's review of the S12II Bronze at whatever wattage they send him.

notquitequiet · Post by **notquitequiet** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151074
I don't read this forum too much, but I was sort of shopping for my next PSU and I saw this one. My other computers have Seasonic PSUs in them. I might go with one of these for the next build.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:05 pm

dhanson865 wrote:three upcoming 80 Plus Gold Models?

Seasonic SS-550LT, SS-650KM, SS-750KM
SS-550LT
SS-650KM
SS-750KM

Apparently the SS-x50KM models will be in the X series and are modular

the SS-550LT won't be modular but I don't know if it will be called X series or be branded differently than the modular ones.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:49 am

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17025

Pics of an X series and mention that they will be on sale in July or August.

The firm's new X-Series power supply series include 650W and 750W models, both of which have 80 Plus Gold certification.

...
...
...

Thanks to that design, Seasonic says the cooling fan inside an X-Series PSU just won't switch on until the unit reaches a 20% load. Now, the company also told us temperature will determine the fan speed, so the fan may not turn off in a particularly cramped or poorly ventilated system. Still, Seasonic designed the X-Series to be entirely passively cooled in a regular PC at sub-20% loads. And that's without massive heatsinks poking out the back.

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:14 pm

I plan on replacing my noisey 625 Modu82+ with a Seasonic X750KM

I can't wait to have a high quality PSU again!

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:51 am

Any new updates on these amazing power supplies?

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:18 am

Compddd wrote:Any new updates on these amazing power supplies?

AFAIK, they're going to become available some time in Q3 '09 -- July~Sept. Obviously it won't be in July, so presumably in the next 2 mos. It appears that key components needed for super high efficiency PSUs are in short supply, which is the main reason why gold certified models from any brand are unannounced or unavailable.

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:19 am

Compddd wrote:I plan on replacing my noisey 625 Modu82+ with a Seasonic X750KM I can't wait to have a high quality PSU again!

Noisy Modu82+? I must have missed something, is yours defective?

BTW, 750W PSU is absurd unless you're running tri/quad sli/crossfire.

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:12 am

JazzJackRabbit wrote:
Compddd wrote:I plan on replacing my noisey 625 Modu82+ with a Seasonic X750KM I can't wait to have a high quality PSU again!
Noisy Modu82+? I must have missed something, is yours defective?

BTW, 750W PSU is absurd unless you're running tri/quad sli/crossfire.

This is my second 625 Modu82+ in a year, the first I had to send back because the fan ended up making loud clicking sounds, if I had to describe it, it would sound like the noise a HD makes when seeking, except louder.

The replacement they sent me is now doing the same thing, so I am done with Enermax

I had a Seasonic S12 430 for years it worked like a champion, so I'd like to go back to Seasonic.

_MarcoM_ · Post by **_MarcoM_** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:40 pm

Compddd wrote: This is my second 625 Modu82+ in a year, the first I had to send back because the fan ended up making loud clicking sounds, if I had to describe it, it would sound like the noise a HD makes when seeking, except louder.

The replacement they sent me is now doing the same thing, so I am done with Enermax

Same story here. Two 425W modu82+, same type of noise, it would sound like a Caviar GP seeking but hard-mounted

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:39 pm

Yeah it's ridiculous

_MarcoM_ · Post by **_MarcoM_** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:47 pm

In fact. I will change this PSU whit something better, i like it, but the fan noise is something silly for a premium product...

dvdmonster · Post by **dvdmonster** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:51 am

Any news on this baby?
Can't wait to get my hands on one. Hopefully they are not too expensive.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 am

_MarcoM_ wrote:In fact. I will change this PSU whit something better, i like it, but the fan noise is something silly for a premium product...

I agree using cheap fans is inexcusable, but rather than spend $100 on a new PSU why not just spend $10 on a new fan. Doing a fan swap is pretty easy and the drawbacks of voiding warranty/possibly reducing the life of the unit are moot if you would otherwise throw it away.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:55 am

jessekopelman wrote:
_MarcoM_ wrote:In fact. I will change this PSU whit something better, i like it, but the fan noise is something silly for a premium product...
I agree using cheap fans is inexcusable, but rather than spend $100 on a new PSU why not just spend $10 on a new fan. Doing a fan swap is pretty easy and the drawbacks of voiding warranty/possibly reducing the life of the unit are moot if you would otherwise throw it away.

The enermax Modu82+ and Pro82+ has a non standard fan interface and fan controller. It's daunting vs a fan swap for any "normal" PSU.

Of course he could power the fan from a motherboard header or from the PSUs own outputs but then it's not hardware based thermally controlled without spending money/effort to put a probe inside the PSU.

If you were going to use it on a low wattage system you might be happy using a fixed voltage fan swap at 5v but most wouldn't want to do that as it would lower the usable rating of the PSU.

Compddd · Post by **Compddd** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:43 am

Any new word on these new gold certified Seasonic PSUs?

Mr Evil · Post by **Mr Evil** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:16 pm

Compddd wrote:Any new word on these new gold certified Seasonic PSUs?

Or news on any 80 plus gold PSUs. There are dozens of them listed on the 80 plus site, but not a single one seems to actually exist.

jessekopelman · Post by **jessekopelman** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:42 pm

dhanson865 wrote: If you were going to use it on a low wattage system you might be happy using a fixed voltage fan swap at 5v but most wouldn't want to do that as it would lower the usable rating of the PSU.

I am a proponent of the fixed voltage fan swap, if only for its simplicity (anything too involved and I'd rather just buy a new part). You are assuming a lot to say this will lower the usable rating of the PSU (ie that the users ambient conditions will be the same as those used when selected the fan control and that there was no safety margin inherent in the design). I think it is far more likely that you will reduce the usable lifespan than the available power. Look at the way SPCR torture tests PSU, yet very few go into emergency shutdown and or fail to deliver their rated wattage.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:47 pm

Mr Evil wrote:
Compddd wrote:Any new word on these new gold certified Seasonic PSUs?
Or news on any 80 plus gold PSUs. There are dozens of them listed on the 80 plus site, but not a single one seems to actually exist.

Not quite true. There are the OCZ Z-series psus that are gold. However they seem awol in serious psu reviews and I suspect they probably have some big negatives in output quality.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:52 am

jessekopelman wrote:
dhanson865 wrote: If you were going to use it on a low wattage system you might be happy using a fixed voltage fan swap at 5v but most wouldn't want to do that as it would lower the usable rating of the PSU.
I am a proponent of the fixed voltage fan swap, if only for its simplicity (anything too involved and I'd rather just buy a new part). You are assuming a lot to say this will lower the usable rating of the PSU (ie that the users ambient conditions will be the same as those used when selected the fan control and that there was no safety margin inherent in the design). I think it is far more likely that you will reduce the usable lifespan than the available power. Look at the way SPCR torture tests PSU, yet very few go into emergency shutdown and or fail to deliver their rated wattage.

There is a LOT of assumptions in that statement. Looking back at it I should have said some instead of most. I was assuming that a SPCR regular that does a fan swap to a fixed 5v PSU fan is going to fix that fan at a very low RPM. I'm also imagining the worst case scenario when throwing out that warning. I've definitely seen users on SPCR talking about a fan swap where they bought the slowest fan they could and then fixed it at 5v or put it on a fanmate and turned it just above stall speed.

Noctua NF-s12-1200 at 5v 640 RPM
Noctua NF-s12-1200 at 5v 390 RPM
Nexus D12SL-12 at 5v 490 RPM
Scythe S-Flex SFF21F at 5v 550 RPM
Scythe S-Flex SFF21E at 5v 400 RPM
SCYTHE SLIP STREAM SY1225SL12M at 5v 720 RPM
SCYTHE SLIP STREAM SY1225SL12L at 5v 420 RPM
SCYTHE SLIP STREAM SY1225SL12SL at 5v 170 RPM

If you pick a more reasonable fan you might be OK up to hundreds of watts and really who needs more than that? I never break 200W on my systems even when gaming so if I took a 850W PSU and swap the fan such that it would shut off at 400W due to heat I'm still within a big range of safety margin and your are right I'm not doing anything but shorting the life of the PSU slightly when I run it at >100W.

But knowing the internet I toss the warning out there so some gamer doesn't fill his system with multiple video cards and a raid array then swap the PSU fan down to almost nothing and wonder why his PSU is less stable or dies of heat death sometime down the road. I often word things for the lurker that may read my post way down the road and act on it but not partake in the discussion.

Maybe I'm being too cautious but the thought is there in my writing sometimes.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article898-page4.html This PSU doesn't give 5v to the fan until it's hit over 400W but at that voltage the stock fan was at 1370 RPM. I don't know how much headroom it has if you replace that fast fan with a slow or very slow fan.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article813-page4.html Here is one that hits 5v between 300W and 400W and is probably about 1000 RPM at 5v. No big deal to the average user and they could swap for a slower fan.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article802-page4.html 5v at just over 200W for this one. It'll work with a slower fan but you are surely eating into the design margin. Your choice of fan will matter more on a low wattage PSU like this.

Seasonic shows X-Series, modular, 80 Plus Gold @ Computex

Seasonic shows X-Series, modular, 80 Plus Gold @ Computex

Newegg has the bronze models