prosilent fanless psu, enough power for a 2.8 P4?

[adoyle]

can i use this power supply with a new 2.8 p4 w/ a geforce fx gaming card, 1 gb ram, dvd r-w, etc...will there be enough power? will have a sonata case

[davsmith]

can i use this power supply with a new 2.8 p4 w/ a geforce fx gaming card, 1 gb ram, dvd r-w, etc...will there be enough power? will have a sonata case

Depends on exactly which graphics card (and motherboard) you have - a top end graphics card will suck a lot of power.

I have been testing the following setup - 3.06 p4 on a P4G8X Asus m/b with ATI 9800 pro, 1.5 Gb RAM, DVD R-W, 120 Gb Barracuda V in a Sonata case. This would be a great workstation class machine if I could get it to run silently. It works, but the Prosilence PSU buzzes and the buzzing increases when I run a CPU intensive job. At low loads, the PSU is silent. The buzzing comes from the large PFC choke which is screwed to the casing. The problem is made worse due to the fact that the case is a bit loosely constructed i.e. the two halves of the case don't fit together quite as snugly as other PSUs I have come across.

My conclusion would be that the PSU is not up to the task and is straining to power the system - the max current ratings for this PSU are ludicrously low for a supposed 350W PSU - particularly on the 12v line (13 Amps only!) which gets hammered by top end graphics cards and processors. The ratings are really those of a 250W PSU I would say.

[MikeC]

The ratings are really those of a 250W PSU I would say.

See the review.It is really rated for 170W.

[al bundy]

The ratings are really those of a 250W PSU I would say.

See the review.It is really rated for 170W.

Exactly. Similarly, the Nexus NX-3000 is labeled a 300W supply although it has a Total Output spec of only 200W.

BTW Mike, I think I see a typo on page 2 of the proSilence review - your table (for the non-1.2 version) shows the +12V DC Voltage Line as having a 'Peak Output' of only 10A. Shouldn't that in fact read 14A?

[al bundy]

...I have been testing the following setup - 3.06 p4 on a P4G8X Asus m/b with ATI 9800 pro, 1.5 Gb RAM, DVD R-W, 120 Gb Barracuda V ...

My conclusion would be that the PSU is not up to the task and is straining to power the system...

Hey davsmith, you're the first person I've known who has tried the proSilence with a rig that powerful! You're also the first person I've ever heard of that has experienced any buzzing coming from this PSU. Not just a coincidence I'm sure.

That power-hungry rig of yours probably needs a more powerful PSU for sure. Do you think your vendor might replace yours with the new 'Version 1.2' proSilence unit, if you asked them nicely?

[MikeC]

al bundy -- the 14A correction was made.

Regarding the power rating issue, the 200W rating you refer to in the Nexus is only for the 3.3V + 5V lines. (Regardless, I have little doubt about the NX3000 doing fine at full 300W load testing, as the fanned fortron-based models generally have done.)

According to an email I received from one of the proSilence resellers, I made the same error in my review -- the 170W and 197W totals refer only to the 3.3V + 5V lines. Which means of course that I tested the unit at only half of rated capacity. Full power testing is normally the combined max load for the 3.3V + 5V lines plus whatever it takes from the other lines to bring the total to the rated power -- in this case 350W.

My strong hunch, given the temperatures I was seeing, is that the probability of the proSilence surviving a 350W load test for any length of time (say 3-5 mins) is probably not high.

When I have the opportunity, I will add a poscript and possibly, corrections to the review. However, I will wait to hear back from the manufacturer about the question of what real max power is.

[davsmith]

That power-hungry rig of yours probably needs a more powerful PSU for sure. Do you think your vendor might replace yours with the new 'Version 1.2' proSilence unit, if you asked them nicely?

Sadly, I think this *is* the Version 1.2 model - certainly the specs are the same as those shown on the silentmaxx Web site. The values they show there would appear to be the peak power numbers.

I'll probably keep it in case I want to build a lower spec really silent box at some point - but for my workhorse machine this isn't going to be much use. Also I felt rather uncomfortable leaving a machine running with a PSU which was clearly straining.

I'm going to try Seasonic and maybe Globalwin next - they both have interesting looking 400W PSUs.

To think I got into this game for professional reasons (building low noise PCs for a college) but it has now turned into an expensive and frustrating hobby! I am determined to find an off the shelf recipe (i.e. no modding) to building a really quiet high spec machine - I'll get there eventually...

- Dave -

[Riffer]

....I am determined to find an off the shelf recipe (i.e. no modding) to building a really quiet high spec machine - I'll get there eventually...

- Dave -

Good luck. I was hoping the Fortron 120mm would be an inexpensive solution - but their unavailability in Canada, and all this coil whine talk doesn't give me much hope.

I will pick one up if I get a chance, but am planning to do another PC Power & Cooling / Panaflo L1A mod for my next computer.

PS - I'll be in Chicago in a few weeks - does anyone know any retailers in the Chicago area tha carry the 120mm Fortron/Sparkle/Aopen etc PSU's?

[al bundy]

...I think this *is* the Version 1.2 model - certainly the specs are the same as those shown on the silentmaxx Web site. The values they show there would appear to be the peak power numbers.

I'll probably keep it in case I want to build a lower spec really silent box at some point...

To think I got into this game for professional reasons (building low noise PCs for a college) but it has now turned into an expensive and frustrating hobby! I am determined to find an off the shelf recipe (i.e. no modding) to building a really quiet high spec machine...

- Dave -

In addition to this game being expensive and frustrating, don't forget to add 'obsessive' and 'compulsive'! (If you're like the rest of us that is )

I wonder if the brand-new SilentMaxx ProSilence Fanless Pro would work perfectly for you in that high-end rig? We can't get it in North America yet, but perhaps you could be the first forum member to get one and share your experiences with us?

[davsmith]

I wonder if the brand-new SilentMaxx ProSilence Fanless Pro would work perfectly for you in that high-end rig? We can't get it in North America yet, but perhaps you could be the first forum member to get one and share your experiences with us?

Well, it looks interesting - but not yet available here in the UK, so my bank balance is safe for a while. Knowing my luck the backup fan will fire up as soon as I plug it in and stay on!

However, I have decided that my next target will be the Globalwin Super Silent 22dBA 420W ATX Power Supply - although this has two fans, in a straight through configuration, it should mean that the CPU heat will not affect it too much. It also has both automatic and manual fan speed control. Plus it can power and control 3 case fans (a bit like the standard Sonata PSU). The fans are supposed to have "nanometer ceramic" bearings - which sounds like it's a plus point, but who knows? I'm not sure how something can be "super silent", though - either it's silent or it isn't! We'll see... my expectations are not high...

- Dave -

[Sparky]

I purchased a Pro Silence PSU from Silicon Acoustics last month. I installed it in a brand new system and have had no stability or performance problems. The system is as follows;

SilentMaxx ProSilence PCS-350 (Grey not blue)
Intel 3.06 Ghz 800 FSB CPU
Zalman CNPS7000-CU
1Gb DDR RAM (2 512MB)
Soyo Dragon SY-P4I875P MOBO
ATI Radeon 8500
(2) Seagate Barracuda V 80Gb Serial ATA HDs
Toshiba 52x CD/DVD
Samsung 32x/12x CD-RW
Teac 1.44 Mb Floppy
Antex 3700 case (Mod for high flow 120mm fans)
(2) Papst 120mm Case fans controlled with NoiseMagic NMT-2

This system has been running for the past three week straight, with out a single failure. The are only a few things that I would note. First, the PSU is grey/black not blue, so I would assume that this is the new v1.2. Second the 12V ATX cable is very short, and I had to pick up an extender to make it reach comfortably. There is enough heat generated in the case that the two Papst fans are turning fast enough no to click, and I have the Zalman fan running at about 7v.

The Prosilence PCS-350 replaced a Nexus NX-400. All though the NX-400 was a very nice PSU, it was by far the noisiest component in the system. At this point i cannot hear any fan noise what so ever, and am very happy with the setup.

My next mission is to silence the two Barracuda hard drives, which have become very noticeable in terms of case vibration. I just received an AcoustiPack Deluxe kit, but I believe the drives will have to be suspended to ultimately minimize the case vibration.

It’s a funny day when the CPU is cheaper that all the silencing material….

Hope this helps,

Alan

[marc999]

davsmith wrote,

However, I have decided that my next target will be the Globalwin Super Silent 22dBA 420W ATX Power Supply - although this has two fans, in a straight through configuration, it should mean that the CPU heat will not affect it too much.

Wow, I'm glad you brought this power supply to my attention !! I was thinking of moding my own like this but even if I did it would not be as good as one designed for back to front air flow. Anyway, this seems like the best design to me for a fanned PSU, so if you do get it please let us know how it is.

So do you know if it's available in North America (I checked GlobalWin's USA site and they don't have it listed)? Does it use dual 80mm fans (if not then it would suck).

[davsmith]

So do you know if it's available in North America (I checked GlobalWin's USA site and they don't have it listed)? Does it use dual 80mm fans (if not then it would suck).

No idea about availability in North America, but here is link to some details on the PSU on the main Globalwin site:

http://www.globalwin.com.tw/products/power/420w-p4.html

[MikeC]

Globalwin Super Silent 22dBA 420W ATX Power Supply - although this has two fans, in a straight through configuration, it should mean that the CPU heat will not affect it too much. It also has both automatic and manual fan speed control.

No sure why you think this would be so much better than any other?

I can almost gurantee that the min manual fan control is actually preset by the internal PSU thermistor, meaning that when the PSU gets hot, your min manual speed will actually rise.

Also, unless you isolate the PSU, the heat in the case WILL be drawn into the PSU, and its temp is bound to rise. The graphs for the fan speed/temp in the Globalwin PSU spec sheets don't tell anything about at what temp the up-voltage "corner" is. In fact, the curve looks way too linear.

My 2 cents: you will be disappointed as much with this one as with the others you have tried so far. Try the Seasonic -- and mod it as per the usual suggestions. It has the most benign fan controller I've seen in a PSU, and still cools the PSU fine at high loads (ie, kicks the fan up almost to full in a hurry when the cooling is really needed).

[davsmith]

No sure why you think this would be so much better than any other?

I don't know that it will be. However, the options for quiet legal high power PSUs in the UK are rather limited. So far the best I've found are the Fortron units with 120 mm fans - but here it seems to be pot-luck whether you get one with a quiet fan or not.

I can almost gurantee that the min manual fan control is actually preset by the internal PSU thermistor, meaning that when the PSU gets hot, your min manual speed will actually rise.

Maybe, maybe not - only one way to know for sure.

Also, unless you isolate the PSU, the heat in the case WILL be drawn into the PSU, and its temp is bound to rise. The graphs for the fan speed/temp in the Globalwin PSU spec sheets don't tell anything about at what temp the up-voltage "corner" is. In fact, the curve looks way too linear.

Is there a PSU that doesn't heat up? The thinking is that with no vent directly over the CPU and Zalman graphics heatsink, it will not heat up as much. As things stand, the heat travels directly from the graphics card heatsink and CPU into the intake of my current PSU - with no PSU vent over the CPU, I would expect more of the heat to go out via the rear 12 cm fan than via the PSU.

My 2 cents: you will be disappointed as much with this one as with the others you have tried so far. Try the Seasonic -- and mod it as per the usual suggestions. It has the most benign fan controller I've seen in a PSU, and still cools the PSU fine at high loads (ie, kicks the fan up almost to full in a hurry when the cooling is really needed).

Not interested in modding - sorry. As I've said before, I am interested in seeing what can be achieved without voiding any warranties or certifications. I don't know what the situation is in the US, but in the UK, modifying equipment that has a CE certification and selling it without having the modified equipment recertified is illegal. At the moment I am putting together quiet PC rigs purely for fun - however, a friend and I have discussed the possibility of starting a small enterprise to assemble quiet/silent high performance machines on a fairly small scale e.g. as we did for our college library project. Modifying any of the PC components would be a no-no if we were to go ahead with this. I know this puts enormous restrictions on what we can achieve, but we are kind of stuck with it.

Would you still recommend we try the Seasonic if it can only be used unmodified?

[MikeC]

>>Would you still recommend we try the Seasonic if it can only be used unmodified?<<
yes

[marc999]

Mike C wrote,

Not sure why you think this would be so much better than any other?

Well, it makes use of the tunel theory like other quiet PSUs, which has already been discussed. However, since it has the advantage of having a fan blowing into the tunel, and a fan sucking out of the tunel, this should allow each fan to rotate slower. Since one of the fans (the blowing one) is inside the computer, it should be silent to the outside (especially with a Panaflow). Now who knows how quiet this thing is out of the box, however, with modding, I beleive this could be the quietest PSUs out there. If the controller sucks you could always just run the fans off the PSU leads itself at a constant voltage - I've done that with my Q-Tech. Imagine this PSU modded with 80mm Panaflows or SilenX fans !! As for the blowing fan blowing in hot air, this is unlikely because the hot components are under the PSU, not behind it. Also, adequate case ventalation should also counter this. And finally, even if the air was warmer than ambient, it would still be cooler than the heatsinks. Since I modded my Q-Tech, one day I felt the heatsink near the back left (looking from the inside the computer out). That thing was hot, likely because the only sucking fan didn't provide much cooling to the back side of the heatsink. Anyway, I definitely think this PSU has potential, especially if it has decent heatsinks and high efficiency. Of course it may suck too, but I definitely think it's worth checking out !!

[MikeC]

However, since it has the advantage of having a fan blowing into the tunel, and a fan sucking out of the tunel, this should allow each fan to rotate slower.

Probably not. The max airflow of 2 fans on both ends in a push/pull configuration is limited to that of the lower airflow fan. In other words, if you have two 20 cfm fans in push/pull tunnel config, the max cfm is 20. Ditto with a 20 cfm fan and a 30 cfm fan.

However, the pressure with 2 fans is increased, though not linearly, so that if there is considerable impedance, 2 fans in push/pull will end up drawing more air through compared to 1. There IS a fair amount of impedance in a PSU, so there could well be increased airflow.

The cost is a minimum noise increase of 3 dBA (2 fans vs one), probably higher because of added turbulence if you do get higher airflow.

For more info on push/pull fans (sometimes called fan stacking), see this AMDMB.COM article.

[marc999]

Interesting info there Mike, thanks. However, I still think it could be worth trying. Two L1As or SilenX at 5V in a push/pull config may not push enough air to cause noise due to turbulence, but with the added pressure, that limited CFM can be fully taken advantage of. Maybe this config may not provide lower noise than the top end silent PSUs, but perhaps better cooling, thus heating up your case less and allowing slower case fans. I would really like to see a review of this PSU modded as such (and the stock version) by you ...... of course I'm sure you get that all the time and can't possibly do them all !!

[MikeC]

Maybe this config may not provide lower noise than the top end silent PSUs, but perhaps better cooling, thus heating up your case less and allowing slower case fans.

But PSUs are rarely significant contributors of heat inside a case, because it's at the top of the case & its fan sucks out its own heat. It's more the other way around -- the heat from other system components gets sucked out through the PSU, which gets hot & then its fan speed increases (in a typical thermistor controlled fan PSU), causing higher noise.

[marc999]

Good point.