FSP300-60ATV w/ 0.06A 80mm NMB Fan?

JarsOfFart · Post by **JarsOfFart** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:00 pm

FSP300-60ATV

0.06A NMB Fan

If I were to buy the Fortron power supply with the 80mm fan, would I be able to run it with the slower NMB fan? I've heard it's more accurate to look current draw and the Panaflo L1A has a current draw of 0.68A so the NMB fan should be slightly quieter? This should be quieter than the Fortron PSU with the 120mm fan, right? The heatsinks in the Fortron PSU with the 80mm fan should be larger in comparison to the PSU with the 120mm fan, that's why I would think it would be possible to run the 80mm fan PSU with a quiet slow NMB fan.

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:37 pm

Most sports cars have large tires, but that doesn't mean a car that has large tires is a sports car

Silent fans usually have a low current draw, but that doesn't mean a fan that has a low current draw is a silent fan. I have a 40mm fan right in front of me that has a 0.08A current draw and could make your hears bleed.

Plus, my panaflos draw 0.1A. Where did you get yours ?

It's hard to judge a fan without listening to it, but you can get a rough idea by looking at :
- RPM. The lower the quieter
- CFM. The lower the quieter.
- Ball bearing/Sleeve bearing. The later is usually quieter.

Most PSUs have 30 - 40cfm fans, and many people here replace them with 20cfm fans. Just as long as you keep your case cool, it's ok. Either the NMB or the Panaflo will do the job. I've never used a 80mm NMB, but some people here use them and are very happy with them, plus they are incredibly cheap. I don't think they are as quiet as the panaflos, but for $2, why not try one ?

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:15 pm

I run one of these 0.06A 80mm NMB's in my power supply, and it's an Antec 400W powering two XP1600 Palomino's and a hungry video card. But I have the PSU ducted so that it doesn't have to deal with the processor heat. With the NMB mounted externally at 10V, the exhaust is pretty warm. With an ambient temperature of 30C (screw air conditioning!), the exhaust is as warm as my breath. It was almost that bad before the fan mod and duct, though.

One bad sign: I put the quietest NMB I could find (out of my dozen) on the PSU, and now the fan has the worst chatter. I'm too lazy to swap the fan again right now, but it could be that the fan's suffering from the heat, or it could be that this particular fan was a dud. The rest of my system houses another half-dozen NMB's at various voltages, and they all run fairly quiet.

If you wait until the weekend, I'll be able to compare my NMB-modded PSU's noise with that of the Fortron 120mm 300W'er from Newegg. It's in the mail right now, and should be on my doorstep Friday.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:20 pm

Kostik wrote:Most sports cars have large tires, but that doesn't mean a car that has large tires is a sports car

Silent fans usually have a low current draw, but that doesn't mean a fan that has a low current draw is a silent fan. I have a 40mm fan right in front of me that has a 0.08A current draw and could make your hears bleed.

Plus, my panaflos draw 0.1A. Where did you get yours ?

It's hard to judge a fan without listening to it, but you can get a rough idea by looking at :
- RPM. The lower the quieter
- CFM. The lower the quieter.
- Ball bearing/Sleeve bearing. The later is usually quieter.

Most PSUs have 30 - 40cfm fans, and many people here replace them with 20cfm fans. Just as long as you keep your case cool, it's ok. Either the NMB or the Panaflo will do the job. I've never used a 80mm NMB, but some people here use them and are very happy with them, plus they are incredibly cheap. I don't think they are as quiet as the panaflos, but for $2, why not try one ?

Kostik:
(1) Your assessment of choosing a quiet fan is helpful, though I might add that lower RPM and CFM generally means quieter.
(1a) "hears bleed"

I like it. A typo or a pun?.
(2) You may not have noticed, but JarsOfFart has been at SPCR 3 months longer than you have.
(3) The NMB fan that he lists is on the Recommended Fans page

JarsOfFart wrote:FSP300-60ATV

0.06A NMB Fan

If I were to buy the Fortron power supply with the 80mm fan, would I be able to run it with the slower NMB fan? I've heard it's more accurate to look current draw and the Panaflo L1A has a current draw of 0.68A so the NMB fan should be slightly quieter? This should be quieter than the Fortron PSU with the 120mm fan, right? The heatsinks in the Fortron PSU with the 80mm fan should be larger in comparison to the PSU with the 120mm fan, that's why I would think it would be possible to run the 80mm fan PSU with a quiet slow NMB fan.

Jars
(1) From my experience, the Panaflo may sound a little smoother than the NMB. My NMB's clicked a bit at low voltage. I'm not sure the Panaflo is "quieter" than the NMB, but because the noise is of a different nature, I've preferred the Panaflos.
(2) The question of the 80mm vs. 120mm Fortron is not apples to apples. The 80mm is on the back of the PSU and the 120mm is on the bottom of the PSU--inside the case--and though they are different dBA levels, they are also different distances from the ear.
(3) What makes you think the heatsink in the 80mm will be larger?
(4) I think the NMB specs are pretty close to the low CFM fan that exoticpc puts in their silenx brand (a rebadged Fortron 80mm fan PSU).
(5) With your system load, you should be okay, but the risk-averse part of me

encourages you to test your PSU temps before and after you swap fans .

Kostik · Post by **Kostik** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:39 pm

aphonos wrote:(1a) "hears bleed" I like it. A typo or a pun?.

Just my broken english

Read "ears bleed".

aphonos wrote:(2) You may not have noticed, but JarsOfFart has been at SPCR 3 months longer than you have.

Did I sound arrogant or something ? Sorry about that. I just wanted to point out the fact that looking at the current draw from a fan isn't the best way to judge its quietness.

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:45 pm

Kostik wrote:Did I sound arrogant or something ?

Probably not any more than I usually do

Kostik wrote:Sorry about that. I just wanted to point out the fact that looking at the current draw from a fan isn't the best way to judge its quietness.

You're right. I wonder if Jars meant that when swapping a PSU fan out, it is better to match draw from the old to new fan??

JarsOfFart · Post by **JarsOfFart** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:46 pm

Kostik wrote: Did I sound arrogant or something ? Sorry about that. I just wanted to point out the fact that looking at the current draw from a fan isn't the best way to judge its quietness.

Aren't CFM and dBa rather unreliable measurements as measuring techniques can differ from manufacturer to manufacturer? Now that you bring up rpm, I think it would be a good indicator though.

Can someone recommend a PSU that has large heatsinks? I'm not looking for a prosilence or specialty PSU, just a solid OEM brand, like Fortron, Sparkle, and HEC. Antec and Enermax are too expensive as well.

JarsOfFart · Post by **JarsOfFart** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:31 pm

aphonos wrote:(3) What makes you think the heatsink in the 80mm will be larger?

Well, I have found why I think the heatsinks in the 80mm will be larger. In the big thread about the 120mm Fortron on the third page, there is a post by digitalix that says so. It's his 3rd or 4th post on the 3rd page. I have no idea if it's true though. He does use some good logic though. The heatsinks in the 120mm version are smaller because the extra CFM can compensate. For the 80mm version, the heatsinks need to be larger to compensate for the lower CFMs.

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:45 pm

JarsOfFart wrote:Aren't CFM and dBa rather unreliable measurements as measuring techniques can differ from manufacturer to manufacturer? Now that you bring up rpm, I think it would be a good indicator though.

You can use amps/rpm as a rough estimate, if you take the fan size into account. A 0.15A 40mm will scream, but a 0.15A 120mm... (do they even make those?) Anyway, a low-amp fan can be further under-volted, whereas a high-amp (high-rpm) fan will be noisy for as long as it's spinning. But low-rpm's don't guarantee quiet running, because it says nothing about the quality of the sound. That's why testimonials from trusted individuals is by far the best way to judge a fan's quietness.

Can someone recommend a PSU that has large heatsinks? I'm not looking for a prosilence or specialty PSU, just a solid OEM brand, like Fortron, Sparkle, and HEC. Antec and Enermax are too expensive as well.

The Fortron 400W is the one with the gigantic heatsinks you see in the SilenX PSU review. About $60 at Newegg, last time I checked.

Edit:

JarsOfFart wrote:In the big thread about the 120mm Fortron on the third page, there is a post by digitalix that says so. I have no idea if it's true. He does use some good logic though.

Digitalix and logic don't belong in the same paragraph. Unless his claim is independently verified, IMO it's not worth considering. There have been so many reliable users that have said good things about the 120mm PSU...

JarsOfFart · Post by **JarsOfFart** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:48 pm

SometimesWarrior wrote:
JarsOfFart wrote:Aren't CFM and dBa rather unreliable measurements as measuring techniques can differ from manufacturer to manufacturer? Now that you bring up rpm, I think it would be a good indicator though.
You can use amps/rpm as a rough estimate, if you take the fan size into account. A 0.15A 40mm will scream, but a 0.15A 120mm... (do they even make those?) Anyway, a low-amp fan can be further under-volted, whereas a high-amp (high-rpm) fan will be noisy for as long as it's spinning. But low-rpm's don't guarantee quiet running, because it says nothing about the quality of the sound. That's why testimonials from trusted individuals is by far the best way to judge a fan's quietness.

Can someone recommend a PSU that has large heatsinks? I'm not looking for a prosilence or specialty PSU, just a solid OEM brand, like Fortron, Sparkle, and HEC. Antec and Enermax are too expensive as well.
The Fortron 400W is the one with the gigantic heatsinks you see in the SilenX PSU review. About $60 at Newegg, last time I checked.

Thanks for the recommendation. Can you confirm or disprove my beliefs that the 300w w/ 80mm fan has large heatsinks?

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:38 am

JarsOfFart wrote:Thanks for the recommendation. Can you confirm or disprove my beliefs that the 300w w/ 80mm fan has large heatsinks?

I can't say whether or not its heatsinks would fit your definition of "large". But since there are so many silent power supplies on the market that are just re-branded Fortrons with a new fan, if you see the insides of one of them in their 300W edition, you've seen the insides of a 300W Fortron. Thankfully, MikeC has opened up a few of these PSU's, so you can decide for yourself how "large" the heatsinks are.

cliche · Post by **cliche** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:39 pm

JarsOfFart wrote:
aphonos wrote:(3) What makes you think the heatsink in the 80mm will be larger?
In the big thread about the 120mm Fortron on the third page, there is a post by digitalix that says so. It's his 3rd or 4th post on the 3rd page. I have no idea if it's true though. He does use some good logic though.

I never read any of his threads after the deceptive practices he engaged on in here. far more trust worthy vendors on in here

Heed Mike C's ammendment/warning on his sig

SometimesWarrior · Post by **SometimesWarrior** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:17 pm

Okay, I got my Fortron 120mm 300W from Newegg, and promptly popped it open to take a picture. Naturally, Digitalix was blowing hot air; the heatsinks in this PSU aren't gigantic, but they are larger than the ones in my Antec 400W SmartPower.

I then put the cover back on and did a quick listening test. It wasn't very careful, and it was in the middle of the day, so if I do a more thorough listening test Saturday night or so, I may be able to provide more details. Anyway, here are my comments:

I tested the Fortron with the no-load "pin trick", so if it speeds up significantly under stress, my remarks will need complete revision. From the reports I've read, though, the fan does not speed up much. The NMB was plugged into a Fanmate which was then plugged into the Antec 400W SmartPower's onboard fan plug. The Antec juices up to ~11.5V after a few minutes, and the Fanmate is on full. By using a Y-power-splitter on the Fanmate and plugging the NMB fan into one of the connectors, I can test the voltage with a voltmeter on the other connector. For this test, It was at 10V.

The Fortron and Antec had equal levels of noise, I'd say. The Fortron was almost all "whoosh", with a little bit of what I'll reluctantly call "hum". I say reluctantly because it doesn't sound like electronics hum or vibrational hum, but the hum of air coming from a quiet air-conditioner. Like a warm-sounding "whoosh". There was a bit of bearing chatter/squeak, but I couldn't hear it from 12 inches away.

The Antec had a distinctive buzzing sound which was not pleasant-sounding. It also had almost as much "whoosh", but the source of the whoosh appeared to be the front of the PSU enclosure, which makes me want to try opening the restrictive intake grille on the PSU. But even some of my free-air NMB's make the same buzzing sound, so I don't think the buzz is caused by negative air pressure inside the PSU. The NMB fans also have a higher-pitched hum than the Fortron.

Even if the NMB "whoosh" disappeared, I would still prefer the Fortron. With the 120mm Fortron, you get more airflow, less buzz, and a lower-pitched hum that isn't annoying to hear. You will certainly hear the Fortron 120mm fan in a relatively quiet environment, so if you are looking for near-silence, you'll have to try a SilenX or a better fan-mod than the NMB. But if you want a quiet, unobtrusive computer, the 120mm Fortron will work nicely. It's as cheap as the 80mm model, and you won't need to do any fan swaps to make it quiet.

Before you make any final decisions, you may want to wait for me to test the Fortron inside a working computer to see how it handles the load and added heat. This review may well be an "apples-to-oranges" comparison, since the Antec was delivering 130W DC or so, and the Fortron was delivering nothing.