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 Post subject: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Posts: 43
Location: FL
I've spent my entire day off trying to get the penultimate part for my 1st PC build. However, I'm still confused. I just want one that doesn't have a coil whine but it seems like all these models have reviews or reports of coil whine so I'm completely confused on which to buy. I don't understand if the coil whine is due to the KM3 models. It's also confusing when looking up reviews because the X series models are updated, however a lot of the reviews are for the previous generation. I'm just looking for any guidance that can be provided. All of the below mentioned models are in my price range.

Here's the list I've got:

Seasonic two models:

X series
750
850
Platinum Series
760
860

Corsair AX series:

AX750
AX760
AX850
AX860


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:57 am 
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Location: UK
What kind of system are you going to be powering? 750W is a lot of power and hardly anything actually needs that power. It is most likely that a smaller PSU would be sufficient and much cheaper.

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Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Posts: 176
Location: belgium
If you can get your hands on a Superflower/Kingwin Golden king 550w platinum I recommend you to get one.


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:27 am 
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First of all, I'll second the observation that the power figures are too high. Would need more info to specify actual need.

Second, you do know those Corsair AX models are made by Seasonic, right? If you're wary of the Seasonic-related whine reports, I would steer well clear of all that and pick something like the Supwerflower/Kingwin suggested - or my personal favourite Nexus. They're hardly the latest design, but they have been highly compatible, robust and 80+ Bronze is nothing to scoff at. I've used Coolermaster PSUs in builds for others when Nexus has not been available, and none of those units have whined (typically used the Silent M Pro in 500-600 W varieties).

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Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Posts: 43
Location: FL
Here's my list of components. Sorry I forgot to post them. Although, I don't see how a smaller PSU will be more efficient. I've never heard of Kingwin, but from what I've read thus far they don't seem to be very good. I suppose, at least Seasonic and Corsair have good return policies if I have to RMA.

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116504

Motherboard: ASUS SABERTOOTH Z77 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131821

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 FTW 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card 02G-P4-2678-KR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130787

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black 1 TB SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB Cache Internal Desktop Hard Drive Bulk/OEM - WD1002FAEX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136533

CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155 and AMD FM1/AM3+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835103099

SSD Hard Drive: Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 20-148-442

Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M2A1600C9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820233186

Optical Drive: Lite-On LightScribe 24X SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive IHAS424-98 - Retail (Black)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827106335

Monitor: Dell UltraSharp U2412M Black IPS Panel 24" 8ms Pivot, Swivel & Height Adjustable LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 DC 2,000,000:1 (1000:1) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824260047

Speaker: DELL UltraSharp and Professional Series 468-7412 10 W 2.0 AX510 Flat Panel Stereo SoundBar http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... ll%20AX510


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:34 am 
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Location: UK
Your theoretical peak power consumption will be less than 300W, maybe around 250W in actual use.

Now, to answer your question about efficiency. PSUs are not very efficient at very low loads. Your system will spend most of the time running at 100W for typical applications unless of course you actually do run Furmark all day. The drop off in efficiency beyond 80% power is quite substantial but below that is fine. Hence a high quality 400-500W PSU would be best. Any bigger than that and you're wasting your money, as are many other people.

The GTX670 requires 2x 6-pin PCI-E power connectors which may narrow your choice a little unless you want to use a splitter cable. The Seasonic Platinum 460 fanless would be very suitable.

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Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:42 am 
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I was leery of the Kingwin/Superflower names - they do sound like plastic toy makers - but the units do review very well. People have had samples with issues, but the same goes for almost every other name in the business when it comes to the high efficiency models (and especially the generic brands and their budget models).

The thing about hi-power (.7-1.0 kW) units is you're wasting money (and precious resources, if you think about it) on components and circuitry you will never utilise. Efficiency at different loads is pretty much a moot point nowadays with the flat curves the 80 Plus certification guarantees, but there is still a point to that, which I shall demonstrate with the following graphic:

Image

That's the PSU I use. Pretty flat right, there's like a 4 percentage point variation in that, can't be too many watts in a PSU rated for 530 W. This is what the 80 Plus spec was made for, consistency, besides raising the efficiency baseline. Now what's noteworthy here is how the graph line only starts after 20%. This is because the 80 Plus certification starts at 20% rated wattage, i.e. they guarantee the proper efficiency from that point onwards.

As edh pointed out, your power consumption, as well as the consumption of most modern desktops, will typically be at or around 100 W, even less than that for systems that have more mainstream GPUs. This means that most of the time (what typical means), your PSU is working outside any sort of certified efficiency range. 80 W would be 10% of 800 W, which is just ridiculous. As for the peak, 300 W sounds about right; the card has been tested to have a 180 W absolute-torture-test-maximum draw, and your CPU should have around a 110 W absolute-100%-load-maximum. The other components in your system have draws in the single digits.

Even if we consider gaming, you're not looking at peak draw. Judging by the Techpowerup review of the card, you'll find it eating up some 150-160 W in graphics-heavy games, whereas your CPU will hardly be 100% loaded. The 250 W edh estimated is probably not far off at all.

250-300 W from an 800 W rated PSU doesn't even reach 50% of the rating. You don't need the power reserve for gaming, for torture tests or future-proofing. It's just waste, quite literally in a sense.

PS. The Sabertooth is a big waste of money. It's a popular choice because people fall for the hype, but the reviews have found it lacking, and the "armour" to even be detrimental. I would switch to mATX if possible, if you're only going to have 1 or 2 cards in the system. Compact rigs are arguably nicer to live with, and the P8Z77-M Pro I've been very happy with would save you close to $100 (which you can put towards a nice(r) case and the fan swap you'll need for the cooler, or you can update that Dell into an Eizo Foris). Also, the WD Black HDD is going to be noisy - you already have an SSD, so definitely get a Red or Green as your storage drive, much nicer and still plenty quick.

PPS. If we consider the above efficiency curve, it would be pretty fantastic to have typical consumption in the optimal efficiency range and have the best possible efficiency for the highest loads, no? Assuming efficiency is highest around 50% of rated wattage, this would mean the ideal PSU would be 100 W x 2 = 200 W. Since you DO require power reserve for gaming, we have to calculate that as well; the tail end of the efficiency peak being around 60%, this would be 250 W / 0,6 = 416 W. The expected 300 W peaks would still be covered by that rating (341 W output if 80 Plus Bronze). If we assume a degradation of 20% (crazy much) over the product's lifetime, we'd need 376 W of output, i.e. a rated power of 458 W at 80 Plus Bronze spec.

Summa summarum: get a 450-500 W Bronze PSU or shoot for the stars with 400 W Gold/Platinum.

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4609
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
PSU: Your stressed load power is going to be ~300W and probably 250W while gaming. If you go with a fanned PSU, I'd aim for something in the 500W range...not because you need the wattage, but because most fan profiles ramp up quickly once you get to 50% loading. If you go fanless, then 400W will work (other than the need for additional PEG connectors). The Kingwin LZP-550 is a nice supply. As are the various Seasonic Gold and Platinums. It's definately a YMMY issue on whether or not you will get electronic whine with your build. If you just want to pull the trigger today, Newegg is having a one day sale on the Seasonic 660XP for $90 after MIR and promo code EMCYTZT3071. Overkill for wattage, but a really nice price.

Other comments: Your chosen Gfx card and the WD Black will be noisy. Sabertooth mobo is mostly hype. The Crucial M4 is nice but for $10 more you can get the Samsung 840 Pro...or you can wait for when either goes on sale.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Steve's got a point about the fan profiles. Too few have their fan profile graphs up on the product specs page, but it's always a good idea to try and match your situation.

Example from Nexus' site:
Image

(the model name equals the rated wattage you have to match the load % with)

There are faster SSDs, but the m4s are pretty damn reliable at this point (and certainly no slouches, in typical use you'll hardly notice the difference since most loads are handled so fast), and the firmware is guaranteed mature. Up to personal preference what you choose to prioritise of course - if anything I would look at getting a 256 GB model - it's $60 more on Newegg, whereas the 840 Pro is out of stock.

PS. Just for reference, the biggest difference with 128 vs 256 m4s:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5735/45565.png

I couldn't find data on Anandtech for the 128 GB 840 Pro, but they did have the 256:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6328/50058.png
(the data rate is Anandtech's benchmark's best "general speed" measure, I think)

The 840 Pro had some nasty firmware issues not long ago, but those are all supposedly fixed in retail units. Still, I'd give it 6 months just to be sure.

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:23 pm 
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Das_Saunamies wrote:
The 840 Pro had some nasty firmware issues not long ago, but those are all supposedly fixed in retail units. Still, I'd give it 6 months just to be sure.

I believe the only people that were affected were reviewers with pre-production units. Haven't come across any complaints since.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Is it becoming a little more common for PSU fans to be regulated by load percentage, or do the curves simply assume that the temperature will rise about the same in some "typical" setup?

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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:41 pm 
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The latter. That's why "hot box" fan profiles are so much louder - it's the temp that sets the fan speed. It's cheap to use a temp sensor tied into a fan controller.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:40 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Other comments: Your chosen Gfx card and the WD Black will be noisy. Sabertooth mobo is mostly hype. The Crucial M4 is nice but for $10 more you can get the Samsung 840 Pro...or you can wait for when either goes on sale.


I've already bought the products listed months ago so I'm not returning them. I've tried out my GTX video card and I'm very happy with it and I didn't hear any noise. Although, it's not right next to my ear either. Hopefully, the case I decide on will be able to drown out what little noise is left. I'm not so against noise as I am coil whine.

Does anyone have the new AX760 model from Corsair? From what I've read on other forums, there seems to be an issue with Seasonic's power supply units that are being supplied to Corsair. Many seem to have the coil whine. Corsair refuses to address the known issue, which is odd.

Regarding wattage, there's no downside to getting 700ish wattage and I have no problem with the price, as long as I get quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:50 pm 
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You can lead a horse to water, but yada yada. We have at least one happy camper with a recent AX760 purchase: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=65808&p=571764&hilit=AX760#p571764.

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: Corsair or Seasonic PSU
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:32 am 
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majax79 wrote:
Regarding wattage, there's no downside to getting 700ish wattage and I have no problem with the price, as long as I get quality.

:roll: There are plenty of downsides to it and surely there's something more worthwhile you could spend the money on instead?

As Das_Saunamies said though, you can lead a horse to water, but yada yada.

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Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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