SPCR

Hi all

The Nexus Value 430W I bought a few years ago for my sisters PC broke down (a shame, it was a great PSU) so I decided to give her my old and thrusty Seasonic M12II 430W and get myself a newer model. I'm about to upgrade my GPU as well, so a bit of extra power will do no harm. I recently bought a G-450 for my father, excellent stuff. The X-series look pretty good as well, though, but the P-series are to expensive for me. That's why I'm thinking about the G-550/G-650 or X-650.

What would be the main reason to go for the X-series over the G-series? I don't want to spend tons of money, but the difference isn't that big in the end.

X series has hybrid fan control - fan doesn't spin until it get's thermally loaded...so no fan until you get to ~40-50% load (depending on your ambient temp).

The main thing as mentioned is the hybrid fan control on the X-series. G-series fan should always be running. Also the X-series using a sanyo denki fan over whatever fan the g-series has. There are probably some minor component/topology differences in the psus as well, but those are not material differences for a normal user.
Assuming you don't need a fanless mode or are picky about the fan type, the G-series is probably the better choice for budgets.

Thanks for the information. Is the difference between the ever spinning G-550/G-650 and the X-650 audible? I don't mind the fan spinning all the time, as long as I can't hear it.

Potenza wrote:Thanks for the information. Is the difference between the ever spinning G-550/G-650 and the X-650 audible? I don't mind the fan spinning all the time, as long as I can't hear it.

My personal experience with g550 is good, it was very quiet but the pc I build didn't stress it that much, I have read user reviews where the do find it loud under load. If your budget allows I would go with the x650, it should be a better bet overall, fully modular and semi passive.

Thanks for the information. I'm leaning towards the X-650, a shame the X-560 is no longer around, that one would have been a perfect match. 650W will be plenty, but I suppose it won't do any harm...

Potenza wrote:650W will be plenty, but I suppose it won't do any harm...

Looking at your system specs you'll come in around 250W actual power consumption. Even if you're upgrading GPU then 650W is way over the top. I would save some money and get something more suitably sized.

edh wrote:

Potenza wrote:650W will be plenty, but I suppose it won't do any harm...

Looking at your system specs you'll come in around 250W actual power consumption. Even if you're upgrading GPU then 650W is way over the top. I would save some money and get something more suitably sized.

Maybe you overestimated the actual power consumption: at any rate, I agree he shouldn't need more power than he used to have (430W); BUT, in that case, probably the Seasonic G-series couldn't be the best option, noise-wise: more probably that not, it will mostly depend of which will be the new videocard, and whether or not he should swap near in the future his current AMD platform (just to say, at 250W something like the Super Flower Golden Green looks like vastly superior to the G-series, but with the current videocard TDP, and any recent Intel platform, the Seasonic G-series could be a favourable option, money-wise).

Thanks for the input, gentlemen. I've been thinking about that as well, that's why I also started to consider the P-460. I mentioned before the Platinum series was too expensive for me, but this model costs as much as the X-650. I must admit I'm not too sure about having a PSU without a fan. I like the idea of having a fan, just in case.

Anyway, these are my options as of now.

X-650 (€130)

+ Lots of watts, upgradeproof
+ Hybrid fan-control (silent and safe, in my opinion the best solution)

- Overkill, obviously

P-460 (€130)

+ Platinum!
+ 7 years of warranty
+ fanless (no noise)

- fanless (I'll need enough airflow in my case, not 100% sure about that)
- Going from 430W tot 460W, that's a small upgrade for that price.

G-550 (€90)

+ Budgetfriendly
+ Although not as awesome as the two above, all reviews are very positive.

- The fan will be spinning all the time, probably the 'loudest' of the three
- Not fully modular


All of them seem great in their own way, but I've got mixed feelings towards all three... I've been thinking about this for a few days and I just can't make up my mind. What do you guys think?

P.S.: about a new GPU, I'm not in a hurry. I'll probably wait and see what the new AMD-series will bring.

Potenza wrote:All of them seem great in their own way, but I've got mixed feelings towards all three... I've been thinking about this for a few days and I just can't make up my mind. What do you guys think?

I trust only SPCR for noise measurements, so about the G-series I've some doubt: if the G-550 fan controller behaves/acts as the G-360's one, that PSU won't be quiet over an about 150W load (definitely, not so much).
Apart this thought, I would just point you out that there's plenty of alternative to Seasonic brand, do you agree?

I do agree about alternatives, but I've been happy with Seasonic PSU's for years. I have no reason to pick another brand. After 5 years I'm still happy with my M12-II and the other models I used to own were great as well. Normally I wouldn't be so picky about selecting a PSU (I make quite a lot of systems for others), but because this is my first PSU-upgrade in years, I want to be as sure as possible about my decision.

Potenza wrote:Normally I wouldn't be so picky about selecting a PSU (I make quite a lot of systems for others), but because this is my first PSU-upgrade in years, I want to be as sure as possible about my decision.

I understand your feelings but I think you should write down something about the expectations to meet

You had a 430W moderately efficient M12-II and you're quite satisfied of it: apparently you don't need any more power (so any 400W should be plentiful), and you like the noise-signature of your M12, which is quiet but it isn't nor a particularly silent unit, neither a spectacular performing one.

Which thing do you want to ameliorate? The Seasonic X-650 KM3 is 50% more powerful (but you don't need it), it's far more stable, it's silent, much more quiet than the M12 you're used to, so it comes at a cost. The Seasonic 460FL2 F3 (or the slightly less powerful 400FL2 F3) is actually a 80plus Platinum unit, and it's even better for silence and stability: with no power gain (or a slight loss) over your old PSU, you trade in a bit more efficiency for this fact, and about no discount over the X-650.
The G-550 is about as stable and efficient as the X-650, it gives you 120W more than your M12 (and, again, you don't need it), while it's not silent: noise-wise it should be comparable with your M12, but with a notable edge margin under the 150W mark; for the added noise over the X-series, you got a sensible discount from Seasonic.
I just point you out that you may look around for the Cooler Master Vanguard-series: the V700 is a clone of the X-650 (they shares the very same KM3 platform), and here in Italy it costs about 20% less than the original Seasonic unit, but actually clearing the 80plus Platinum requirements (and apparently ready for the upcoming 80plus Titanium specs).

The greater efficiency pays for itself, but do you need to spend more for the more stability? And do you need the more quietness if you're satisfied of the M12 behaviour? You know the answers, they depend from your perspective.
I will add just my personal experience with the X-series: I swapped an M12D with it, and I was pleasantly surprised by the slight change with reference to quietness; but when I compared it with a (relatively) cheap Enermax Eco80 350W, even if this latter is quite an inferior PSU, I have had to admit that the noise change was probably not economically justifiable (as the Seasonic X was three times more expensive). Please take note that the Enermax is anything but underpowered, for several months it played my folding rig, a Phenom II X3 740 Black Edition with a pair of Gigabyte GTX 460 OC 1GB.

Thanks a lot for the advice, mate. It's appreciated.

You managed to described my concerns and hesitations as good as possible! I took a look at that CoolerMaster. It seems to be a good unit as well, you're right about that. The difference in price however is not that big overhere (€15). Above of that, SPCR is my main resource for trustfull information about silent hardware and the CM V700 hasn't been reviewed by SPCR so far...

The main thing I want to improve is having an altogether better unit - not because I need to, it just happens to be a good moment. I'm not in a hurry, and that's probably my main problem: everlasting doubt!

IF I'd go with the X-650, would the extra amounts of Watts form a problem in any sort of way?

Potenza wrote:I took a look at that CoolerMaster. It seems to be a good unit as well, you're right about that. The difference in price however is not that big overhere (€15). Above of that, SPCR is my main resource for trustfull information about silent hardware and the CM V700 hasn't been reviewed by SPCR so far...

It's country-dependant, and it may also be a temporary "glitch": here the X goes from 145, the V700 from 111 (less than the G-650!).
About trusting, I can't help: I know the V700 is nearly identical to the X-650, it has the same hybrid fan control, it's made by Seasonic, so it *should* sound the same, but I can't be absolutely sure about this respect (as I don't own the V700).
EDIT: about alternatives and SPCR, I'm sorry if I repeat myself, but I still think there's plenty of alternative units to put under examination (from the G-360 to the Platimax 500).

Potenza wrote:The main thing I want to improve is having an altogether better unit - not because I need to, it just happens to be a good moment. I'm not in a hurry, and that's probably my main problem: everlasting doubt!

All the quoted PSUs are better than an M12-II in any respect, period: so you can't be wrong.
EDIT: if you are saying that you're looking at the best one (among them), regardless of price, pick the P460FL2. If otherwise price matters, looks for alternatives to those selected brand/models.

Potenza wrote:IF I'd go with the X-650, would the extra amounts of Watts form a problem in any sort of way?

Given the similar efficiency at low loads (I mean among the M12-II, X-650 and P4X0), I think there's no problem at all (taking apart the considerable amount of money).

Update

A few months ago I bought an P-660. It was temporarily discounted and I planned a new GPU anyway (which I have bought in the mean time, an R9 270). Above that I'm considering a crossfire-setup some day, so the P-660 was definitely the best choice. So far so good, great performance. The fan doesn't spin at normal loads. If it spins, it's almost inaudible. A few days ago, I suddenly noticed a high-pitched noise. I feared my HDD was dying (not impossible, it's a 500GB WD Caviar Black that has been spinning several hours a day for more than 5 years). Yesterday I noticed it again, and discovered it was the PSU.

It's an annoying sound that is louder than all the other parts. On the other hand, it went away after a few minutes and occured (so far) only twice. Because of that, I'm not thinking about an RMA, but I do have some questions.

> Is there a possibility that this electric noise might start to occur more often and/or louder because of a fault?
> Both times it started in the evening/at night, after being on for a full day. Could this make any difference? Certain parts running hot? (it's on hybrid mode and the fan wasn't spinning though...)
> Should I inform for a replacement anyway?

Potenza wrote:> Is there a possibility that this electric noise might start to occur more often and/or louder because of a fault?

Yes, it may be a possibility: to the best of my knowledge, usually (unless you upgraded some other part) that may be an evidence of some choke coil deterioration and not an imminent catastrophic failure. How many days did you run the P660 without any issue?

Potenza wrote:> Both times it started in the evening/at night, after being on for a full day. Could this make any difference? Certain parts running hot? (it's on hybrid mode and the fan wasn't spinning though...)

Any electronic part run worse at higher temp, so broadly speaking it may be.

Potenza wrote:> Should I inform for a replacement anyway?

If I were you, I would do so, at least to figure out whether I should RMA it to the seller or to the vendor, in case.

Potenza wrote: IF I'd go with the X-650, would the extra amounts of Watts form a problem in any sort of way?

On the contrary, it will stay fanless for a higher wattage (about 50% so to about 330W, depends also on ambient/case temp). The tradeoff is a little less efficiency at low power usually around 2-3% compared to a smaller unit.

I read from your signature that you got a Seasonic P-660 in the end?

A sidenote about brand, Seasonic makes good PSU, but there are several other OEMs and manufacturers who makes same and better quality units. Moreover, it's slighty overpriced in EU, which is a thing that irritates me.
Funny thing is I recommended the P-660 to a friend of mine, and he got a DOA, but thanks to Amazon customer service he got a working replacement unit in 3 days (cross-shipping).
I heard reports of several corsair PSUs build onto seasonic platform with active PFC that had non working fans...
Just to make a point.

That's probably the infamous "coil whine" which this platform is not exempt to. Keep it until you can stand it.

Telstar wrote:That's probably the infamous "coil whine" which this platform is not exempt to. Keep it until you can stand it.

Well, I can't stand it anymore... It keeps occuring now and then, not being very constant though. Sometimes it's gone after a few minutes, as I'm typing this it has been (clearly audible) buzzing for more than an hour. Without music or other noise in my office, it's audible in the entire room. Anyway, I've mailed Seasonic, hopefully they can help me.

Potenza wrote:

Telstar wrote:That's probably the infamous "coil whine" which this platform is not exempt to. Keep it until you can stand it.

Well, I can't stand it anymore... It keeps occuring now and then, not being very constant though. Sometimes it's gone after a few minutes, as I'm typing this it has been (clearly audible) buzzing for more than an hour. Without music or other noise in my office, it's audible in the entire room. Anyway, I've mailed Seasonic, hopefully they can help me.

So.. Have they answered you? How did you get along this coil whine problem?

I got a quick and friendly reply. They asked me to check some settings (BIOS, mostly), if none of those would help they'd send me a new unit and swap with the old one. I was asked to pay for it in advance, but I would get that money back once my unit was declared defunct. A fine arrangement but the noise stopped suddenly. As if it heard me arranging a swap.

I haven't heard it eversince. Therefore I still use this one, there's a 7 year warranty on my P660 and for now it works fine (again). Perhaps it needed a sort of 'burn in'? I don't know if that is even possible, it certainly seems so though. It also occured during a period that I used my PC almost daily and very intensivly for several hours (Adobe Premiere), which I haven't done since then... Ah well, it least it's gone. For now, that is...