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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:25 am 
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Hi Luca,
The P-1200 does have a Hybrid function where it runs can run in Fanless mode.
Under normal fan control, non-hybrid mode, the fan runs in our normal fan control mode.

There are 3x Fanless units, 400FL, 460FL & 520FL.
The new XP2 has better fan/noise performance than XP1.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:56 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
Under normal fan control, non-hybrid mode, the fan runs in our normal fan control mode.

I'm not sure whether you've answered to my questions, but anyway, which is the minimum fan speed under the Normal fan control mode, according to Seasonic techies?

Moreover, according to SPCR (as well as other sources findings), the original 2009 KM platform (the 80Plus Gold-rated X-650) was able to run quiet up to an ambient temperature of 40°C with a load of about 300W, while the current P1200XP3 seemed not able to run quiet with an about 100W load and an ambient temperature of about 37°C in Hybrid mode.

I understand that you're tied to your official role, but noise-wise that seems a worse performance for the 5-years newer and more capable XP3 platform, at least from a SPCR-reader perspective, and IMHO Seasonic should take an official position (refutation?) about those findings (even if not here), as consumers can not settle for simple ritual denials.

That's my last note about this topic, thanks for your understanding and good luck to KILLi & Curvin.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:14 am 
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Hello quest_for_silence,

I'd say that there's a misunderstanding: the SS-1200XP3 is not so loud because it was designed to be so, but because there seems to be a flaw in the first batch (and eventually later ones, too) of devices.
Apparently all of the noisy P-1200 have come from this batch and currently Seasonic is investigating the issue, as they are not designed to be that loud.

To second the Seasonic rep, I, too like to be on the safer side, cooling wise. I don't mind some minimal fan noise if it dramatically helps the stability and lifetime of a device. Therefore, I wouldn't even bother with hybrid modes, as in my opinion even a very small, constant airflow is much, much better than no airflow at all. So I'd rather not use hybrid modes on any PSU and stick to the normal fan profile where heat gets transferred away before a tremendous amount can build up. Furthermore, hybrid mode introduces great temperature variations, which, in my opinion, is additionally detrimental to the life expectancy of electronic components.

So, I was not seeking an utterly silent PSU, but what I got delivered with the P-1200 was far from acceptable. In fact, the air that got exhausted by the unit was outright cold, which is a clear indication of unneccessary high fan speed.
Up to yesterday, I was not sure whether it was a design flaw, a broken batch of units or if it was purely intentional because most people that need a 1.2kW-PSU will have to get this amount of heat transferred out from their PC case, which will hardly be possible in a silent manner (if one doesn't use a sophisticated watercooling solution). But now we know that there seems to be a flaw with this model, indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:24 am 
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Location: ITALY
KILLI wrote:
as they are not designed to be that loud.

Hello KILLI,

just to clarify (I stated I wouldn't have made further post about): that's either why I asked to our kind Seasonic Rep "which is the minimum fan speed under the Normal fan control mode, according to Seasonic techies?", or why I used phrases like "the current P1200XP3 seemed not able to run quiet" (as a sort of dubitative mood).

I'm not sure about the causes, I just know several people (you, Curvin, the TPU reviewer, I guess some others) found that P1200 was somehow noisier than expected (as you said, "far from acceptable").

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:35 am 
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Hi All,

Just a quick update.

Our QA manager has informed me that they found one unit where a post production ECN had a cold-solder hand solder rework and this unit exhibited the same symptoms as what was posted here.

Apparently, a SMD component in the fan control circuit was changed after the production run and the correction was made by hand and not the wave solder. Human error.... :-(

Sorry for the inconvenience....


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:44 pm
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quest_for_silence wrote:
KILLI wrote:
as they are not designed to be that loud.

Hello KILLI,

just to clarify (I stated I wouldn't have made further post about): that's either why I asked to our kind Seasonic Rep "which is the minimum fan speed under the Normal fan control mode, according to Seasonic techies?", or why I used phrases like "the current P1200XP3 seemed not able to run quiet" (as a sort of dubitative mood).

I'm not sure about the causes, I just know several people (you, Curvin, the TPU reviewer, I guess some others) found that P1200 was somehow noisier than expected (as you said, "far from acceptable").


The P1200 is actually designed to be quieter than the other P series units. How slow is the lowest rotation, I do not know and must ask our PM for more information.


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Posts: 13
Seasonic Rep wrote:
Hi All,

Just a quick update.

Our QA manager has informed me that they found one unit where a post production ECN had a cold-solder hand solder rework and this unit exhibited the same symptoms as what was posted here.

Apparently, a SMD component in the fan control circuit was changed after the production run and the correction was made by hand and not the wave solder. Human error.... :-(

Sorry for the inconvenience....


Thank you for following that up.

I knew that there had to be an explanation, as the profile was just so different to anything I had experienced before, and didn't make an sense from an engineering point to have the fans behave in that manner.

All the best in resolving the issue and mopping up the remaining units that slipped past QA.

I suppose the question for those reading in and interested in the units, is how to narrow down which have the issue , is it a production run/ serial range ?


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:19 pm 
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This is a production run issue, not a series issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Posts: 6
Alright, so I am very glad I found this thread and hope that Seasonic Rep or someone else with a possible solution will see it!

I have a similar problem with the SS-1200 XP3. Here's my review I just posted on New Egg - I received the PSU Christmas Eve 2014

3 out of 5 eggsToo Loud For Me

Pros: Excellent materials. Nice goodies inside. Good looks. High Power and Efficiency for the price I paid

Cons: Noise, Noise, Noise - Hybrid Mode on this fan apparently is non existent. Regardless of what position the switch is in, the fan is on. When I swap back to my AX 760 Corsair PSU that unit is totally silent. Same hardware and game in use. Take 2 eggs away just for that. If you're in a loud environment or don't care then grab it.

Other Thoughts: I reallly wanted this to work. I read some reviews that said it was a little loud, but I bought it anyway hoping it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But the fan constantly on drove me crazy. If I'm gaming with headset on, during low sound points in the game I can hear the fan. If i'm web surfing late at night and no games, its very loud. Made me sad because I really wanted to own a Seasonic Product because of all the great reviews and their legendary quality. I am giving up my AX 760 to my son's PC and went back today and ordered the AX 860. Hopefully this will be enough power down the road when I upgrade to 2 graphics cards.

Fan stays on, possibly full blast, regardless of switch. Here's a copy of email I sent to Seasonic and their reply:


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Location: ITALY
Ez101 wrote:
Here's a copy of email I sent to Seasonic and their reply:

You miss to paste those mails.

Anyway, doing homework before purchasing is always fruitful: you would have been able to find out that no current high powered Seasonic can be defined as "quiet" nowadays (and it wasn't so, a while ago).
Summarizing, if you want a very high power and quiet PSU, you have to go with Corsair AX1500i, HXi, RM or the eVGA P2.

Why you need a 1000-1200W PSU is however another story.

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Regards,
Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:03 pm 
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Posts: 6
I recently purchased this PSU from New Egg. I was very excited to obtain it
as there have been so many excellent reviews and I have always known of your
legendary quality and reputation.

I was replacing a Corsair AX 760 - I am giving that PSU to my son for a
computer I built him. I wanted the new Platinum 1200 as a gift to myself
and so that I'll have plenty of power going forward for upgrades.

However there is a problem with the fan. The packaging claims that the fan
can be in "hybrid" mode and be semi-silent. However, regardless of what
position the switch is in the fan is constantly on. Also, it doesn't matter
what I am doing on the computer, the fan is constantly on.

Is this how the product should perform? I don't expect a totally silent
product, but I do expect that it will be silent when only basic tasks such
as web surfing and checking email.

The fan is much louder that the AX 760, in fact I never hear the fan on that
PSU. I believe this is because my system currently doesn't require a lot of
power.

Here's what I currently have:

ASUS Z97 PRO
4 modules 4 GB Crucial Ballistix sport 1600 RAM
Intel 4790K with Stock Fan
MSI R9 270x Gaming 2 GB
3 Case Fans that are non LED
1 Samsung 850 PRO 256 GB Solid State Drive
1 Toshiba HDD 1 TB
1 ASUS Blue Ray DVD Burner


I ran the Pro calculator at Extreme Outervision.com
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp and gave all my specs.
My system under full load requires less than 600w and well below the Amps /
Wattage provided by this PSU.

I even took out one case fan and the graphics card and booted it back up.
Fan stays on, same speed either way I flip the switch.


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:11 pm 
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Posts: 6
I decided to contact Seasonic as after doing more research I can't imagine my fan is operating as it should. Fan is on 100% of the time regardless of activity / load. I pasted my email to their support team so you can see it. I can paste their reply later but basically they sent me a shipping label and said they would not charge me to check the unit.

I didn't expect a completely silent unit. But I know I'm not even close to pushing this unit and its louder than all my case fans out together when I have them turned up to max. I am picking up the Define R5 case maybe that will limit noise if the fan is till louder than what I am used to when they send it back.

I did research a lot before my purchase and know it's not going to be a completely silent component at 1200w.

Anyway thanks for reading and any suggestions are welcome. I do have the AX 860 on the way. Will check it out next to the 1200xp3 when I get it back. I sent it to Seasonic today.

Problem is that I will miss 30 dollar rebate if I don't cut the box and send rebate form in by 12/31. But if I do that Newegg will not Tyler me return for refund. The Seasonic rep wouldn't tell me if it was normal for fan to be 100% on which was frustrating .


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Posts: 6
Oh yeah I picked up the 1200w not because I need it now but because I wanted to get one PSU and not have to upgrade later if I added more components. Right now I have one card but am giving that to my son in a month or two. Basically waiting for the next AMD card to decide if I want that or the 970/980. Eventually I want to have two GPU's. The 1200 was on sale and same price as the AX 860 so I figured why not get the newer tech and higher watts in case I need it


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Just an FYI, your current setup's stressed load power is around 375W. I'd imagine the gaming load is closer to 300W-325W. In hybrid mode, the Seasonic 1200's fan shouldn't have been spinning so that puppy is defective.

For grins, if you were to replace the R9 270X with two GTX 980s (165W TDP), the gaming load goes up to ~ 400W. Assuming no overclocking. If AMD sticks with ~225W TDP for their high end next gen, then the Crossfire gaming load is closer to 500W (assuming no overclocking).

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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Steve thanks for the note. Question: What did you use to determine the power usage of my system? And how did you get your results during games etc? I used an online calculator and when I input my current stuff and OC it said my max power under full stress was 484. When I put in 2 cards and an extra SSD and HDD ( just figure I will end up with more down the road)it gave me over 700w at max load - depending on the cards AMD vs Nvidia is was low 700's to 800 range. I used the one at extreme.outervision.com pro version to calculate. Looking at the 860 it looks like the PSU becomes less efficient as it goes past 50% load. Anyhow your numbers are much lower than I thought I'd need.

One other note is that in my case I won't be able to use a 240 water cooler at the bottom due to the PSU length.

Basically I want a high end rig but don't want the noise and don't care about having lights because this will be visible in my living room. Could do a 140 cooler in the top / back or near the front bottom in the R5. If I send the Seasonic back to Newegg and keep the AX 860 I could use a 240 mm water cooler in the bottom. I don't want o put anything in the top of the case due to moose / dust intrusion. I also must have the optical drives. I can lose a HDD cage as I doubt I'll ever need more than 4 hard drives

I want the best water cooling I can get because the kid in me wants to over clock the 4790k as high as I can get it. I am looking at the Nepton 140xl from Cooler Master. Reviews I read said it was quieter and performs better than others in its range. Same with the 240 version.

Another question- if I put the 240 in the bottom I was thinking to have it in pull set up or should it be in push( pushing down out the bottom of case)


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:06 pm 
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This works as a decent estimator:
CPU TDP + GPU TDP + 50W for everything else (unless you have lots of HDDs or other add-in cards) = stressed load power (Prime95+Furmark, for example). Then subtract ~15% or so for a heavy gaming load.

Haswell socket 1150 i5 and i7's are 84W class TDP. Your R9 270X comes in at 180W. 84+180+50 = 314W..oops, looks like I added wrong the first time. :) Your game load will be in the 270W range.

A good plan is to take the estimated gaming load number and then look for a PSU that's pretty quiet at that load. The gfx card typically dominates the noise level. For a 300W system, it could be a 400W passive or a 500W class fanned PSU.

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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:36 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
In hybrid mode, the Seasonic 1200's fan shouldn't have been spinning so that puppy is defective.

No Steve, unlikely his PSU is defective, that's how the SS-1200XP3 works: the 1200 in Hybrid mode run fanless up to about 170-200W depending of the internal temperature, then spin up the fan, and at about 350W DC that fan should spin around 1400rpm (while in Normal mode the minumum fan speed is around 1200rpm).

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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:19 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
No Steve, unlikely his PSU is defective, that's how the SS-1200XP3 works: the 1200 in Hybrid mode run fanless up to about 170-200W depending of the internal temperature, then spin up the fan, and at about 350W DC that fan should spin around 1400rpm (while in Normal mode the minumum fan speed is around 1200rpm).

If the fan is spinning no matter what he's doing on the PC (idle, etc), then (unless his PC is a hotbox) I think the PSU is sick.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:04 pm 
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Yes, thats the point I was trying to make. I know I had long posts. The fan is constant on, at the same speed and it's fast. I don't know how to measure the RPM.

It doesn't matter what I am doing, or if I switch to hybrid mode or not. As I said before, the PSU Fan is louder that all my case fans combined when I turn them up to max rpm's roughly 1600 RPM - two 120's and 1 140 mm and the stock intel cpu fan at 2000 RPM.

I have a tough time believing thats how it's intended to work. Even after I've been gaming for a few hours, fan is same speed and loudness as at boot up, or after websurfing for 20 minutes. It never slows down.

I sent to Seasonic and I also sent a PM to the guy named Seasonic Rep that posted in here a few months ago when the thread first started. We'll see what they say.

Oh, Steve, btw the calculator I referred to estimated I need 467w minimum and recommended 517 (with current components). I believe that recommendation is based on 90% load. Check it out, you can add all your components. I also have a gaming mouse / keyboard that are illuminated and there's no input for that. I expect their draw is low, but it's something.

http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine


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 Post subject: Re: Seasonic Platinum 1200 (SS-1200XP3): Noisy?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:42 pm 
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Posts: 3410
Location: ITALY
CA_Steve wrote:
If the fan is spinning no matter what he's doing on the PC (idle, etc), then (unless his PC is a hotbox) I think the PSU is sick.

That's why I wrote "unlikely", Steve: on the other hand, the Hybrid mode is load based BUT temperature driven, particularly it's guaranteed under 25°C. Whether that fan behaviour happened on an open test bench with a controlled ambient room of (to say) 18°C, well, then I would have thought the PSU was surely defective; but when it has been put inside a case, coped with the aggressive (conservative) temperature trigger Seasonic set, given the expected temperature hysteresis of the fan controller, I'm not inclined that much to think it's surely defective.


Ez101 wrote:
http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

Ezra, *any* PSU calculator is just *fluff*.

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Luca

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