Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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matmat07
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Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by matmat07 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:11 pm

Since this case is pretty packed, I would need a smaller PSU than usual, modular or semi modular. It's also going to be in front of the case, instead of the normal back mount, so that's why it needs to be pretty silent.

I was told I'd need about 750w to be safe (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/parts/partlist/ + an asus strix 980 to start, and a second one in the future).

Edit: sorry, real like is here: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/7DKwD3
Last edited by matmat07 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:20 pm

Welcome to SPCR.

If you haven't already, take a look at the SG09 review. You probably want to go for a 160mm PSU. You don't mention the other components…if it's a Haswell i5 system, your stressed load power is (84W + 165W + 50W for the cpu, gfx card, everything else) under 300W, call it 260W heavy gaming load. SLI leads to 465W stress load, ~under 400W heavy gaming load.

My suggestion is to size the PSU wattage based on the noise level you'd be happy with while gaming. A 750W PSU would be slightly over 50% load with SLI and a gpu intensive game. That's typically where fan profiles start their ramp up. On the other hand, while the GTX 980 is a frugal power user, cramming two in the Sugo will lead to their noise overwhelming any PSU.

Abula
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by Abula » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:32 pm

Welcome to SPCR!!!!

If a GTX780 didn't need above 500W, the GTX980, that its more efficient, shouldnt even need above that. Read Hardware.info Nvidia GeForce GTX 980 SLI / 3-way SLI / 4-way SLI review, with a haswell E cpu overclocked, a single GTX980 on load.... 276W, on a SLI of GTX980s.... 429W. Really you dont need above 500W, unless you going with TRI SLI setup or you have other hardware that will draw more... you should try to list your components, the partpicker list.... doesnt link to components.

In the mean time check one of the latest SPCR reviews on an SFX PSU that might interest you, Silverstone SX600-G: SFX 80+ Gold PSU

matmat07
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by matmat07 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:38 pm

Thanks for the welcomes :)

Sorry my mistake, This should be it: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/7DKwD3

edh
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by edh » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:06 am

Firstly, are you definitely going to go SLI in future? How committed are you to it and in what timeframe? If you leave it a year then the chance of finding another card the same is low, plus newer more powerful cards will also be out by then. 'Futureproofing' time and time again shows itself to not work in the long term as the users plans change.
CA_Steve wrote:My suggestion is to size the PSU wattage based on the noise level you'd be happy with while gaming. A 750W PSU would be slightly over 50% load with SLI and a gpu intensive game. That's typically where fan profiles start their ramp up. On the other hand, while the GTX 980 is a frugal power user, cramming two in the Sugo will lead to their noise overwhelming any PSU.
I think a system using that much power would easily need far more airflow than the PSU, oversizing the PSU for noise would become irrelevant. Efficiency curves show hardly any drop off at higher power levels so a 1kW PSU would require almost identical airflow to a 500W PSU at a ~450W max load.

Save yourself some money by going for a decent 500-600W PSU.

lodestar
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by lodestar » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:51 pm

edh wrote:Save yourself some money by going for a decent 500-600W PSU.
I think there are other factors that could also be considered here. For example in view of the case size it might be helpful to specify at least semi-modular. And set Gold as the minimum efficiency standard. Applying these two factors to the PC Part Picker list reveals that there is not as much connection between PSU capacity and price as might be thought. For example Corsair RM-550 at $125 versus Corsair RM-650 at $100 (includes $10 mail-in rebate). There are other examples. If future SLI is more than just a possibility upgrading to a 750w or 850w unit would not cost that much more. For example the EVGA G2 220-G2-0750-XR 750w at $100 ($20 mail-in rebate) or the 850w version of the same PSU at $127 (same rebate arrangement). The G2 incidentally is switchable between hybrid and normal mode. There is a review of the 850w G2 by jonnyGURU.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:54 pm

matmat07 wrote:Edit: sorry, real like is here: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/7DKwD3
Maybe a second thought would be useful, about the proposed SSD: http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articl ... ation-575/.

For the PSU, I would go for either a Be Quiet Straight Power E10 400W (for a single GTX-980 setup), or an Enermax Platimax EPM600AWT/Be Quiet Dark Power Pro P10 650W (for a SLI/3-SLI GTX-980 setup).

If you want to stick with a pointless 750W unit, I'd advice for a Corsair HX750i.

lodestar
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by lodestar » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:42 am

quest_for_silence wrote:For the PSU, I would go for either a Be Quiet Straight Power E10 400W (for a single GTX-980 setup)
While the minimum recommended power supply for the GTX 980 is down to 500w from the 600w of the GTX 780 trying to drop this still further to 400w does not seem to make particular sense. There would be a potential issue about whether the 12V capacity was sufficient. And one reason why 500w is recommended as a minimum is because the transition from the Windows desktop to a GTX 980 in gaming mode clearly involves significant surge currents. The Straight Power E10 is also not a modular supply. The other more pragmatic point is that the E10 does not seem to me to be particularly good value for money. My local supplier in the UK is just starting to stock these. The 400w costs £59 and the 500w £76. The Corsair RM 550 and 650 are £78 and £80.
quest_for_silence wrote:...or an Enermax Platimax EPM600AWT/Be Quiet Dark Power Pro P10 650W (for a SLI/3-SLI GTX-980 setup).
Again why specify such a small power supply. The real life power draw for two GTX 980s could be expected to be around 425 to 450w. Using a 600 or 650w raises the same issues, 12V capacity and stability. The value for money issue comes into play here as well. Both the Platimax and the Dark Power Pro 10 are fairly expensive for their capacity.
quest_for_silence wrote:If you want to stick with a pointless 750W unit, I'd advice for a Corsair HX750i.
On the PC Part Picker list this is a $200 PSU but no doubt the OP will have a budget in mind. So if they want to spend that much there are other choices from the list that could also be considered. The 160mm maximum size limits that choice however. The Antec TruePower Classic Gold 750W is a possibility but is not modular. The Silverstone Strider ST75F-GS Gold 750w is $139 and is fully modular. The Seasonic X-850 is another choice as a 160mm PSU, is Gold and is modular. It is also expensive at $179.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:07 am

lodestar wrote:There would be a potential issue about whether the 12V capacity was sufficient.

I don't think so:
The quoted system is based upon:


I think that a twelve threads Sandy Bridge-E is more demanding than a quad threads Haswell, while about the behaviour of the Active Clamp rectification technology, as far as I know the Aurum and higher level derivatives performed decently at 12V transient load tests, and the E10 is a more refined, improved platform.

lodestar wrote:The other more pragmatic point is that the E10 does not seem to me to be particularly good value for money.

Broadly speaking, lots of BeQuiet products have not a particularly good value for money. But with reference to the smallest E10 unit isn't exactly so, as it's at least 30% cheaper than the unit you quoted. So whether "it needs to be pretty silent", it offers a truly good value for money.

lodestar wrote:Using a 600 or 650w raises the same issues, 12V capacity and stability.

I beg your pardon, lodestar, but who said that? Even better, do you have any meaningful figure which show any fail on load transient tests? Just to use comparable data:
According to which law a 600W unit like the Platimax (overload tests stated capable of delivering at least 762W before shutting down, rated to run 24/7 @ 50°C) cannot handle an about 400W load?

In my opinion your doubts do need to be better argumented, if possible.

lodestar wrote:The value for money issue comes into play here as well. Both the Platimax and the Dark Power Pro 10 are fairly expensive for their capacity.

Both those units are of high quality (higher than a RM) and the quietest.

lodestar wrote:The Antec TruePower Classic Gold 750W is a possibility but is not modular.

That Antec is just a rebadged and usually overpriced Seasonic G, so there's no need to consider it over more conscious iterations of the same platform, like the original Seasonic or the XFX XTR.

lodestar wrote:The Silverstone Strider ST75F-GS Gold 750w is $139 and is fully modular.

It's a densely packed, mid-end Enhance platform (not better the the mid-end FSP used in the E10), which fan is rather questionable and rather loud.
Worth to mention that the relevant transient response doesn't look any real better than the by-you-questioned 650W Dark Power Pro.

lodestar wrote:The Seasonic X-850 is another choice as a 160mm PSU, is Gold and is modular. It is also expensive at $179.

The Seasonic X-850 isn't that quiet ar the expected power draw, as it's fan controller is fairly aggressive, even better, noise-wise maybe it's the worst KM3 unit rated under the kW, regardless of the brand.
So IMO there's no point to prefer it over the smaller but equally solid X-750.

lodestar
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by lodestar » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:48 am

If we could return to the point of this thread, what is being proposed here is a fairly reasonable gaming system. Specifically a GTX 980, an Asrock Z97M OC motherboard and a Haswell Core i5 4690K. The OP has clarified that they are only asking about the options for a less than 180mm size PSU based on a PC Part Picker list. Because of the case involved it seems that 160mm is the limit. Given these factors the best choice of PSU for them is probably the Silverstone Strider ST75F-GS Gold 750w. The reason for this is that it is Gold, is modular and more importantly it is only 150mm. It also has enough capacity at a push to cope with two cards in SLi.

The downside of this PSU if there is one is that it is a fanned unit. So the fan will run all the time, and it won't be as quiet under idle or low system stress conditions as a hybrid unit. But I don't think this really matters in a gaming system like this. The issue with all fanned PSU units is the fan profile, that is how the fan behaves under load. Typically fanned units run the fan at lower levels under about 50% of their capacity but after that will elevate speeds, and increase fan noise significantly. If we look at the fan profile for the Silverstone Strider ST75F-GS Gold it is actually quite good. The fan runs at less than 800 rpm up to about 200w and fan speed increases to around 1000 rpm with a load of 300w. So used with a GTX 980 single card it should be fine by gaming standards. If used with two GTX 980 cards at maximum load the fan would run at around 1500 rpm. So yes it would be noisy but as was mentioned earlier in this thread the amount of fan noise generated by two GTX 980s in this scenario would mean that it would hardly matter.

matmat07
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by matmat07 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:28 am

I plan on buying the Occulus Rift, so I'll probably buy my second video card around that time if SLI makes enough of a difference.

About the M.2 SSD, I tried to find other info about the temperature of SATAs M.2, but I couldn't find any, would you know if they all go pretty hot, or just the PCIe version of them?

And thanks for all the suggestions, I now got a lot to read on.

But right now there's a big sale on the Corsair CX600M (55$ CAD), is it worth it? My budget for the PSU would be max 100$ us, or around 100$ CAD.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:44 am

matmat07 wrote:But right now there's a big sale on the Corsair CX600M (55$ CAD), is it worth it? My budget for the PSU would be max 100$ us, or around 100$ CAD.

No, the group regulated CX are not indicated for a SLI.
Under 100 bucks, you may give a look to the Rosewill Capstone M (I didn't checked the measures, but they should be among the longest).

lodestar
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by lodestar » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:51 am

The Corsair CX600M is an mainstream budget PSU which is what you would expect given its price. It is a Bronze standard supply so it would be less efficient than the Gold units. So it would cost a bit more in electricity to run it, particularly in a gaming PC. Other than that for the money it is good value. Probably best considered as a single card PSU only. But given your absolute limit of $100 a unit that could be considered is the Corsair RM650 which is on your list at $99.99 after rebate. This is Gold, is fully modular and is 160mm. I think it would be a better fit for your proposed system.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:42 am

matmat07 wrote:would you know if they all go pretty hot, or just the PCIe version of them?

Which is the advantage of running a SATA M.2 SSD? As far as I know SATA M.2 SSDs perform just up to the SATA III speed, so as well as any other normal SATA-based SSDs.

Anyway, up to now I read more than once on Crucial forum that the mSATA Crucial ones run pretty hot, but I've no notice of the same overheating for their relevant M.2 (SATA) counterparts.

Abula
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by Abula » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:20 pm

Personally i don't think Micro ATX cases are ideal for SLI setup, this is the main reason i moved back to ATX, to prepare for SLI upgrade down the road. I really don't like the layout of the SG10 for SLI with the 180mm fan on top.... at least the TJ08-E has it in front of all the components that need fresh air. If SLI is in your plans i would reconsider into going full ATX unless your space doesn't permit, now if single gpu is your plan then go with micro atx, but then you can get a lower power PSU much easier that make more sense into a camped case like SG10.

matmat07
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by matmat07 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:14 pm

I know going this small isn't the best idea, but I want to try it.

Now I'm kind of busy these days, haven't had much time to look at it, but I'll keep you informed.

Thanks for the help everyone

Edit: had the time to look up the other M.2 model, and there's very little review about them, so I guess I'll pass on that tech. But now I may have the change the mobo as I really wanted to try M.2 .

matmat07
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Re: Need a <180mm PSU for the SG10 case

Post by matmat07 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:35 am

I've stopped my research on the RM650. Bonus is that if the case comes to be a problem with sli, next one I'll get will have a window on color matching mobo and PSU :D (cause god, yellow is such an unpopular color)

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