What PSU for my mini ITX system?

[vitamin1]

I would like to build my first SFF system but it won't be easy for me, as I'm switching from full ATX to mini ITX. The main components will be the same though:

Athlon II X2 240e
Radeon HD7750
Samsung HD502HJ
2GB DDR3

I will definitely add one SSD in the future and maybe upgrade cpu (some Phenom II 65W TDP) at some point. Now regarding PSU - currently I have old Seasonic S12II-380W (SS-380GB). It is good for ATX system (stable, more than enough power and pretty quite) but not so good for SFF build. Its size is the biggest problem, as it limits my choices in terms of picking some nice and small PC case. I was reading a bit about power supplies and found out that apart from ATX ones there are some SFX, TFX and there is also PicoPSU. But I have no idea which one would be best for my build? Any recommendations and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[edh]

What kind of case do you want? That perhaps steers your choice.

An ATX PSU will be overkill but it does open your choices up a lot more.

SFX is becoming more commonplace and something like the Silverstone SF30SF would perhaps suit very well - it runs passively at lower temperatures so only higher loads typically cause the fan to start. With your low power consumption you might be able to get fanless operation all of the time.

A PicoPSU might be a bit too small for your usage, plus they're not fantastic value for money, efficiency or quality once you include a typical power brick. I'd give it a miss.

Other form factors are out there. TFX remains fairly rare in DIY systems but is used as a base for some propreitary pre-built systems, 1U PSUs are generally aimed at servers and tend to be loud, with a few exceptions. Obscure propreitary form factors are best avoided as they tend to be dead ends. Streacom's passive 240W PSU that's just been announced does look exciting but would need you to spend a lot of money on one of their cases too.

I do have to ask however: how much money do you really want to spend on upgrading a system that is old? You have a 2009 CPU, spending money on a new case, PSU and motherboard just to make it smaller is bad value for money. Buying an SSD would be money better spent.

[vitamin1]

What kind of case do you want? That perhaps steers your choice.

I was thinking about Silverstone Sugo SG05/06 or Cooler Master Elite 110 because these cases are small, good quality, and are inexpensive. But both have one disadvantage - won't let me install my heatsinks (I have two - Scythe Andy Samurai Master, and Thermalright True Spirit 90M).

An ATX PSU will be overkill but it does open your choices up a lot more.

Yes, you're right. Especially if I would go with cases like Node 304 or ISK600. I could eventually keep my current PSU, and also both my heatsinks could be installed without any problems in there. But again - it's also not perfect option for me because these case are quite expensive and a bit too big (at least in comparison to SG05/06) for my needs.

SFX is becoming more commonplace and something like the Silverstone SF30SF would perhaps suit very well - it runs passively at lower temperatures so only higher loads typically cause the fan to start. With your low power consumption you might be able to get fanless operation all of the time.

A PicoPSU might be a bit too small for your usage, plus they're not fantastic value for money, efficiency or quality once you include a typical power brick. I'd give it a miss.

Other form factors are out there. TFX remains fairly rare in DIY systems but is used as a base for some propreitary pre-built systems, 1U PSUs are generally aimed at servers and tend to be loud, with a few exceptions. Obscure propreitary form factors are best avoided as they tend to be dead ends. Streacom's passive 240W PSU that's just been announced does look exciting but would need you to spend a lot of money on one of their cases too.

To be honest with you, I was leaning towards PicoPSU. Here's why - with such a small PSU I could get SG05 (or maybe even smaller case) and use one of my heatsinks. Moreover, I would get rid of one fan - less fans, less noises. Are you sure that 150W PicoPSU won't be sufficient for my build?

As for SFX - that Silverstone SF30SF sounds good too. Too bad it's still too large for my heatsinks.

I do have to ask however: how much money do you really want to spend on upgrading a system that is old? You have a 2009 CPU, spending money on a new case, PSU and motherboard just to make it smaller is bad value for money. Buying an SSD would be money better spent.

I would like to spend no more than $100 for case (the less, the better of course), and maximum $70 for PSU. That Asus M4A88T-I motherboard won't be a problem because I will sell my MSI 790FX-GD70 mobo and that will cover costs for new one.

BTW, I am aware that it's not best of ideas but on the other hand I cannot complain about performance of my current CPU and GPU. And power consumptions is also quite low. Moreover, I don't think I have any alternatives to my system if I want to have better performance (or at least the same), lower power usage, mini ITX case, and stay in AMD stable (as moving to Intel is no-no for me). Or maybe I'm wrong?

[Stevo_]

You could easily run that system off of a 150W picoPSU, I run a 3770K + GT 750Ti off of a 160W HD Plex, running Prime95+Kombustor uses ~130W at stock clocks. It sounds like you want a smaller case but the problem is either of those two heatsinks are holding you back from a smaller ITX case.

I have mine in a 5.3L L2 case (more than your price but currently unavailable anyway), maybe something like an Antec ISK300 with built-in 150W supply, if you can get a lower profile HSF and the 7750 is single slot wide. Winsis has some with dual slots capability but all require something in the 60-70mm total height HSF.

[vitamin1]

You could easily run that system off of a 150W picoPSU, I run a 3770K + GT 750Ti off of a 160W HD Plex, running Prime95+Kombustor uses ~130W at stock clocks. It sounds like you want a smaller case but the problem is either of those two heatsinks are holding you back from a smaller ITX case.

Yes, and that's the reason why I'm interested in that PicoPSU. Besides, if I can have such a small PSU that does the job as good as those much bigger units, why not use it? It gives me more options for picking some nice small case.

Regarding PicoPSU - I found only this in my country:
http://proline.pl/?p=NEIP-002

Is it the same unit as sold by Logic Supply (PicoPSU-150-XT) ?

I have mine in a 5.3L L2 case (more than your price but currently unavailable anyway), maybe something like an Antec ISK300 with built-in 150W supply, if you can get a lower profile HSF and the 7750 is single slot wide. Winsis has some with dual slots capability but all require something in the 60-70mm total height HSF.

The HD7750 I have is dual-slot as it has big heatsink:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1249-page2.html

And since this model is fanless I'm not so sure if it's good idea to put it into such small cases like ISK300 ? (and Winsis is not available in my country unfortunately)

EDIT:
I forgot one thing - what good AC adapter would you recommend for this PicoPSU? (preferably one that I could find on second-hand market)

[Stevo_]

Yes, and that's the reason why I'm interested in that PicoPSU. Besides, if I can have such a small PSU that does the job as good as those much bigger units, why not use it? It gives me more options for picking some nice small case.

Regarding PicoPSU - I found only this in my country:
http://proline.pl/?p=NEIP-002

Is it the same unit as sold by Logic Supply (PicoPSU-150-XT) ?

The HD7750 I have is dual-slot as it has big heatsink:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1249-page2.html

And since this model is fanless I'm not so sure if it's good idea to put it into such small cases like ISK300 ? (and Winsis is not available in my country unfortunately)

EDIT:
I forgot one thing - what good AC adapter would you recommend for this PicoPSU? (preferably one that I could find on second-hand market)

That one from Logic Supply does appear to be the same picoPSU unit, at least all of the brand markings are the same. Yeah, that ISK300 would be totally wrong for that GPU, thought you might have the fan version Sapphire or visiontek.

There's Dell DA-1/2/3 bricks that have a Molex connector and require some re-wiring to use it for a picoPSU but they are cheap and powerful(150W/220W/ note sure on the other). I've seen these for less than $15 USD, even new ones on Amazon if that's an option.

There's guides for re-wiring but basically there's a Molex type connector that has a power-on signal going back to the brick much like an ATX supply. I think most wire both the brick and PSU to turn on at the same time, or just wire the brick on full time. One from this site below.

viewtopic.php?t=65652p=577728

EDIT: Once you go pico style you can get pretty small, here's mine in the L2, though powered by a 19V dell 330W brick, got it before I had anything else and prices went thru the roof on those. Went from a Node 304 to this setup, I'd never go back. Just built up a 10W power sipper Q2900 Asrock mobo L1, power that with a 30W brick.

[vitamin1]

Thank you very much Stevo_ for confirmation on this PicoPSU. As for this Dell DA-2 AC adapter - is it good quality (stability / efficiency wise)? Maybe some alternatives for it?

BTW, is this Big Shuriken on your picture?

EDIT:
And what GPU sits inside your L2 case? (BTW, it's a damn fine case I must say)

[Stevo_]

Thank you very much Stevo_ for confirmation on this PicoPSU. As for this Dell DA-2 AC adapter - is it good quality (stability / efficiency wise)? Maybe some alternatives for it?

BTW, is this Big Shuriken on your picture?

EDIT:
And what GPU sits inside your L2 case? (BTW, it's a damn fine case I must say)

Haven't used a DA-2 before but they get talked up around the internet, I think the thing that keeps the price low is the connector issue. I tend to use 19V brocks and PSUs. That's an AXP100 on there, almost used a Big Shuriken but I saw some mounting horror stories for this mobo due to VRM board. GPU is is a Galaxy(or Galax now) 750 Ti. Bought both versions of Lone's cases, but he's taking a rest from production now.

[vitamin1]

Could you tell me some more about those 19V power bricks please? Are they better than 12V AC-DC adapters? BTW, I noticed that Dell DA-2 has only level-3 efficiency. So still would like to know if there are any better alternatives to it?

[Stevo_]

Could you tell me some more about those 19V power bricks please? Are they better than 12V AC-DC adapters? BTW, I noticed that Dell DA-2 has only level-3 efficiency. So still would like to know if there are any better alternatives to it?

The 19v brick choice was more dictated by the PSU choice, I really like the HD Plex stuff due to their heat sinking. From tests I've seen and the one similar picoBox Z3 direct plug-in I had, they run very hot, like burn your finger hot and used to heat one of my RAMs up quite a bit. With HD Plex PSUs I can use the case to dissipate heat, but they don't run hot like that anyway. The high power 19V bricks are now really expensive for some reason, demand I guess, at least the high power ones. I got my Dell 330W brick for $80 delivered awhile back, but those are now running $120-$140 it seems like. Whereas the 30W Toshiba 19V brick I recently purchased that powers my L1 linux build was only $12 delivered(I use the HD Plex 150W in that but CPU only has a 10W TDP, 1 SSD, 2x64gb sd micros ). I think the gov green energy specs are just starting to hit the bricks but 19V have seemed to be more efficient generally when I've seen credible specs(lots of counterfeit bricks in the market also).

[vitamin1]

So this HDPlex 160W DC-ATX PSU is an alternative to PicoPSU - am I right?

http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-160W-DC-A ... Input.html


The PSU seems to be about the same price as 150W PicoPSU. Now I need to check prices (and availability) of those 19V laptop adapters recommended by HDPlex.


Many thanks for this information Stevo.

[Stevo_]

So this HDPlex 160W DC-ATX PSU is an alternative to PicoPSU - am I right?

http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-160W-DC-A ... Input.html


The PSU seems to be about the same price as 150W PicoPSU. Now I need to check prices (and availability) of those 19V laptop adapters recommended by HDPlex.


Many thanks for this information Stevo.

Yes that's the PSU in the L2 box above, I wouldn't bother getting more than 240W tops for a brick and probably nothing over 200W is really necessary. Kill-A-Watt showed a max of 167W from the wall on my box on the unrealistic Prime95+Kombustor test. I think your setup would be very close in power, using 80% overall efficiency just to make the math easy, ~133W at the mobo(hardware monitor showed CPU 55-65W and that GPU throttles at 60W on the button so numbers checked out). I was getting about 35-38W at idle IIRC at the wall.

One thing to keep in mind though on the 19V bricks is the plug they use on higher power units is 7.4mmx5mm I never found a round jack anywhere even on Alibaba, only board mounts like below. The HD Plex mount is a bit funky and you may have to slightly mod the case to use.

Hd Plex mount 20mm c-c on holes, had to heat and bend them in to match up with 19mm c-c hole on case, but not all cases have a DIN power mount like that. HD Plex I think sells some adapters. But the lower power bricks you can find some with 5.5x2.5mm jacks.

EDIT: Add that the 150W came with both power leads 7.4x and 5.5x, can't recall if the 160W did or not but they should have it listed. It can at least affect which case/brick combo you get

[vitamin1]

Many thanks once again Stevo_ for your very comprehensive reply. If I decide to stay with AM3 platform I will definitely go with HDPlex PSU. So this topic can be marked as solved now:)