PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

PSUs: The source of DC power for all components in the PC & often a big noise source.

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SilentWar
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PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by SilentWar » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:14 pm

I realize this is something difficult to ascertain, as coil whine is an issue which develops over a period of ownship. It seems whether a device will develop coil whine can't accurately be determined in assessing its out-of-the-box performance. Thus, in my research I've done over the past week I've noticed coil whine liklihood is based majorly off of consumer reviews and anecdotes. I was hoping that someone here could point me towards a more scientific, or more reliable way to avoid getting a PSU which will develop coil whine for my silent PC I'm currently building.

Here is my build for reference. I have not ordered any parts yet so I am open to any suggestions or disuccsion.

Display: Philips 4065UC 40in 4k monitor + Sharp 32in 1080i TV + 1080i laptop display
Motherboard: Asus Z170-Deluxe
CPU: I7-6700
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu (SCKTT-1000)
GPU: Asus ASTRIX GTX 960 (4gb)
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws V: F4-3200C16D-16GVK
Storage: Samsung EVO 1TB SSD
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 /w window
Case Fans: (x2) Phanteks PH-F140HP (both with dust filter)
PSU: ???
Power estimate provided by PCPartPicker: 320W

I had originally selected the Seasonic Snow Silent 750W PSU, however, I've noticed in various places an abundance of complaints about coil whine in Seasonic's PSU's. My main attraction to this was that the fan stays below 16db of noise when below 300W usage. 750W is total overkill for my build, but its not too far above the price of the fanless ~500W PSUs.

500W may still be a bit excessive the current parts, but I also wanted the option of adding an extra GPU, to support two 4k res monitors in the future.

The main usage with this PC will be research inolving heavy, multi-tabbed web browsing, running multiple background programs constantly, and occasional photoshop and CAD use. The 4k monitor (eventually two) is the main need for slightly more powerful components.

The Define R5 case will provide copious amounts of room for air flow, however I want my PC to last as long as possible so having a PSU that produces as little heat as possible is prefered. This also allows the fans to run at a lower speed, reducing noise.

Thus, the criteria for my PSU is ordered as follows: (feel free to provide informed opinions)
1. Low noise (<~20db) (No coil whine)
2. Low heat
3. Longevity (~6 years+ perfered, but would settle for ~3years if cost is 1/2 the cost of a ~6 year PSU)
4. Hopefully <$200

I don't game much so my non-OC'd CPU will be relatively simple to keep cool. The main challenge is keeping fan speeds and noise as low as possible while maintaing a good CFM to compensate for the dust filters.

Thanks in advance

CA_Steve
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:45 pm

Welcome to SPCR.

Unfortunately, there's no scientific method applied to coil whine testing, just a lot of feedback from users....and yes, there's a lot of feedback about coil whine on Seasonic PSUs, though I'll say that the two I have don't exhibit it. Your stressed system load is closer to 230W (65W CPU, 120W gfx card, <45W for everything else) and would expect a heavy actual load to be well under 200W. Skylake can drive 4k monitor via displayport. So, there's one monitor right there. Your GTX 960 has 3 more Displayport outputs.

Take a look at the be quiet Straight Power 10 series. Very low rpm fan will be inaudible.

quest_for_silence
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:11 pm

SilentWar wrote:1. Low noise (<~20db) (No coil whine)

Set aside what Steve wrote (+1), my personal recommendation for an high performance and efficient platform which minimizes the risk of PSU coil whine goes for any Super Flower Golden King/Leadex based PSU and the CWT-based Corsair RM/RMi/HXi, while I've no definitive information about coil-whine in FSP-based BeQuiet PSUs (E10, P11). Take also note that sometimes the so called "whining" comes from either the GPU or the motherboard, particularly from their VRM caps, and it's not due to the PSU itself.

Abula
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by Abula » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:43 pm

Im just going to second Steve and Lucas advice, as i believe they said pretty well.

Seasonics gold and platinum series have been said to have coil whine, yet, i bought 3x gold, 2x platinum and 3x G series and all were coil free, well tbh the X400 had some if you stick your ear next to the PSU but inaudible at 1mt away.

To me coil whine is more than the PSU itself, its a combination of things that makes it, from motherboards, GPUs, PSUs, add on cards, etc and there is no way to avoid it for sure, yet i would probably go with Superflower based PSU if you want to have less chance, not out of not having it, as i read some comments that do, but i read much less than with seasonics. That said, if i were in the market for a PSU, i will look into Seasonic first, as it has work really well for me.

SilentWar
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by SilentWar » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:52 pm

Thanks for the advice all.

The Straight power 10 emits >28db under most loads. I thought the standard for silence was <20db? Also, I prefer something that is fully modular. Here's a test of it for reference http://www.kitguru.net/components/power ... 0w-review/

With what I've found recently, I as well was leaning towards Kingwin (I live in the US). I was thinking about the LZP 550. Theres also a cheaper model, the Kingwin AP 550W, which has superb efficiency ratings as well, but I haven't been able to find any info on fan noise. Its also only $100. Does anyone know about these? Are they a considerable alternative to the LZP? Why are they so much cheaper? https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Kin ... 550/5.html

Also, the Enermax Platimax 600W and Enermax Modu/Pro87+ 500 are both really good performers, both with <20db below 500W load. I haven't really been able to uncover much about the reputation with coil whine though. What do you guys think?

I know coil whine comes from other compenents as well, but I think its harder to find alternative models with the same features, build quality, and performance so I usually just find the one that fits my needs and expectations best and pray it won't whine lol.

CA_Steve
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:17 pm

The devil is in the details...from your listed KitGuru review:
The Silent Wings 3 BQ SIW3-13525-HF fan is exceptionally quiet, rating below the accurate limits of our sound meter at 28dBa..
Only a few review sites have a noise floor below 20dB, let alone SPCR's 10dB. So, if the review says they measured 28dB, and their noise floor is 28dB, you are just seeing the limitation of their test system and not the PSU. Unless you see an SPCR review, the best comparable is to look at the fan rpm profile. Slow moving fan is generally a good indicator of inaudibility...unless it's a crappy fan :)

SilentWar
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by SilentWar » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:26 pm

The Silent Wings 3 BQ SIW3-13525-HF fan is exceptionally quiet, rating below the accurate limits of our sound meter at 28dBa..
Yes, but you don't know how much below. It gets up to 31db at 450W so I'd assume it'd still be slightly louder than the Kingwins and Enermaxs. I just found this test of it actually https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/beQ ... 00W/6.html which suggests that it is slightly louder and less efficient than those in the top spots on the recommended PSUs from the SPCR article. If I were to go with Be Quiet! I'd opt for the newer platinum 11 series to avoid putting excess heat into my PC case. Albeit, with their price approaching $200 its questionable, especially when theres other reputable, fully modular PSUs in that same price range.
Only a few review sites have a noise floor below 20dB, let alone SPCR's 10dB.
Yes, I really like SPCR for that reason. I'm a stickler for accuracy
Slow moving fan is generally a good indicator of inaudibility...unless it's a crappy fan :)
I do agree, as that is generally the case, but I've learned to seek hard data and avoid assumptions. I've found that in today's capitalist market, many manufactuers would take advantage of common assumptions to make a quick buck.

quest_for_silence
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Re: PSUs Least Prone to Coil Whine

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:43 am

SilentWar wrote:The Straight power 10 emits >28db under most loads. I thought the standard for silence was <20db?

I think that's already addressed by Steve, but I am going to add something more just below.

SilentWar wrote:Also, I prefer something that is fully modular.

IMO the E10 is "fully modular": I'm saying so because the only permanently wired cable is the mainboard 24 pin one, and it's so for technical reasons (electrically this works better without a modular interface, which means more pins, more traces), and I don't think we can get rid of the motherboard cable.

SilentWar wrote:Also, the Enermax Platimax 600W and Enermax Modu/Pro87+ 500 are both really good performers, both with <20db below 500W load. I haven't really been able to uncover much about the reputation with coil whine though. What do you guys think?

I own the Platimax 500, mine doesn't whine, and its fan spinned always at around 300rpm up to 320W at the wall: that's all I can say about.
About SPCR measures, they are differently recorded, so as far as I know they can't apply (and in case take always care to use the SPCR hot box scenario, which is more similar to KG scenario).

SilentWar wrote:With what I've found recently, I as well was leaning towards Kingwin (I live in the US). I was thinking about the LZP 550. Theres also a cheaper model, the Kingwin AP 550W, which has superb efficiency ratings as well, but I haven't been able to find any info on fan noise. Its also only $100. Does anyone know about these? Are they a considerable alternative to the LZP? Why are they so much cheaper? https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Kin ... 550/5.html

From what Aris (the reviewer) wrote, mainly because of the lack of modular cabling and less QC (quality control). It reminds me the Super Flower Golden King Pro, a semi-fanless cheaper variant of the Kingwin LZP (it uses probably an inferior ball bearing fan too). I can't say anything about, but it could be a very decent performer, noise-wise.

SilentWar wrote:
The Silent Wings 3 BQ SIW3-13525-HF fan is exceptionally quiet, rating below the accurate limits of our sound meter at 28dBa..
Yes, but you don't know how much below.

Unfortunately, you too. :wink:

SilentWar wrote:It gets up to 31db at 450W so I'd assume it'd still be slightly louder than the Kingwins and Enermaxs.

As already said, the devil is in the details. First of all, you were looking not to the same fans.
This is the 500W one:

Image

The above fan is then different from the 600W one tested at KG:

Image

Eventually this is the one you looked at TPU:

Image

As you can easily note, the first fan is a 1200rpm one, the latter is a 2100rpm one (et pour cause): so, my question is a rhetorical one, do you think a 1200rpm fan may sound as loud as a 2100rpm one? Or even like a 1500rpm one?

Then it may worth noting that the KG's methodology is an hotbox-like one: starting at 35°C its setup feed the hot air coming from the testing equipment into the PSU, and as a matter of fact the intake temp rise up to 44-47°C (with reference to the last reviews), so your mileage may vary in a real life scenario.

Third consideration, you should compare noise data from a given reviewer just with other data coming from the same reviewer (who didn't tested the Enermax, for instance, and not even the LZP IIRC). And if you look to KG review of the SF Leadex Gold 650 (a serious contender to minimize whining risk, and performance wise one of the best units in the market), you may note that overally it's a tad louder, per SPL.

But, broadly speaking, dB is an odd unit measure, it's a logarithmic one, and sound pressure level is not linear too, but referred to a solid angle, so that you cannot sum them straight as natural numbers. Last but not least, talking about sound and human ears, the difference from two given SPLs (Sound Pressure Level) refers at the same time to three data: to a certain quantity of energy (needed to generate such a pressure), to a given amplitude (of the pressure wave) and to a perceived level (by the human ear), each with different metrics. Unless you know all the boundary conditions and you're really familiar with those kinds of calculations, it's hard to say how two sources combines themselves, how a source is affected by a noise floor (not to mention the 28-30dB isn't the noise floor, is the bottom of what the mic can meaningfully calculate), and so on.

I hope this brief and not precise excursus may help you someway.

SilentWar wrote:If I were to go with Be Quiet! I'd opt for the newer platinum 11 series to avoid putting excess heat into my PC case.

The Platinum advantage over Gold is rather thin. The DP11 is maybe quieter (according to KG it isn't, according to other sources it is), while the DPP10 was actually quieter because its fan controller is less conservative, a more relaxed one (so that actually the heat dumped into the case should be higher, with the quieter DPP10).

I do agree, as that is generally the case, but I've learned to seek hard data and avoid assumptions.

Well, look at the raw data. For instance, on TPU we can see the full fan profile in a hotbox (look at the load table at the very bottom of the page).
Apparently, with an intake temp in excess of 41°C, the fan stayed under 880rpm at around 480W DC, which is A LOT of power.
For instance, a SLI pair of GTX980 with an Haswell Core i7 overclocked to 4.8GHz draw around 400W DC while gaming, and when you're pushing hard a SLI pair I think you can't hear such a PSU, drowned out by the graphics screaming.
Obviously, whether you use less efficient graphics, like the R9, you'll have less computing power, but nonetheless if any 250W graphics is pushed hard, then it need some serious cooling prowess, so I'm confident that the outcome can't be radically different, even with less performing but hotter cards.

Well, as said, hope this helps.

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