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 Post subject: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:05 am 
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It's the one model Arandtech did not test, and I'm willing to pay more for it it's going to be quieter, but based on their review 850 performed the same as 750, couldn't find any legit comparisons between the two either.

Back in 2012 SPCR tested X-1050 that was about 10db quiter than other 650W models at 500W load, which is a BIG deal.

Image

I am only running a single 1080Ti with total system power consumption between 500-600W, 1000W might seem like overdoing it, but whenever I look at this table, the X-1050 looks like a way better choice for this power range. There's just no other reviews on the new Prime 1000W models to confirm that the Prime is just as good (or even Prime Platinum instead of Titanium).

I just want m PSU to be quiet. The current semipassive one I have goes completely rpm crazy after a few minutes of gaming/gpu load, but if Prime Titanium 1000W is anything like X-1050 was on SPCR tests... That would be a bliss. Unless the sound levels of 750W Prime models are not as audiable as I think, can't say as I didn't hear one, but

There are also Seasonic Snow Silent psus which have... 120mm fan? Why would that be better than 135mm that Primes have? The test that I looked at Snow Silent looked very noise at 500W, just nowhere near the X-1050.

So, should I just go for 1000 Titanium, or...?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:12 am 
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Welcome to SPCR.

Now, step away from the ledge. :D

Have you plugged your PC into a power meter to see it's actual power use? It's hard to get to 500-600W with a single 1080 Ti without a serious overclock.

Worst case stress load:
CPU (let's say i7-7700K) 91W TDP. Overclock ~ 150W
GPU: 250W. OC ~ 320W
everything else: ~50W
total: ~390W, OC: ~520W

Likely gaming load: ~85% of worst case: ~331W / OC ~440W

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:32 am 
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Personally I was waiting for the Seasoning Prime 600w, it's titanium rated so it's going to be as efficient as it gets, and fanless so no worrying about fan profiles or noise. But simply couldn't wait any longer and went with seasoning prime 650, haven't received it yet so I can't say how it really is, but my two seasoning platinum 860 have been great, never I have notice any noise from them, even when I had a sli of gtx980ti.

Another that I was considering is bequiet darkpro11, seems that the fan spins no matter what, but a very low rpms where it's inaudible, and in my experience a little air moving doeaake a big difference in cooling.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:27 am 
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Abula wrote:
Personally I was waiting for the Seasoning Prime 600w

Somebody is using word autocomplete on their phone or PC :)

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:24 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome to SPCR.

Now, step away from the ledge. :D

Have you plugged your PC into a power meter to see it's actual power use? It's hard to get to 500-600W with a single 1080 Ti without a serious overclock.

Worst case stress load:
CPU (let's say i7-7700K) 91W TDP. Overclock ~ 150W
GPU: 250W. OC ~ 320W
everything else: ~50W
total: ~390W, OC: ~520W

Likely gaming load: ~85% of worst case: ~331W / OC ~440W


Thank you for replying, I did not measure the actual power draw and your numbers should be quite close for a normal gaming load, yeah. But when this gpu starts working (even in non OC or downlclocked mode!) my current psu will get really hot. It's NesteQ ASM XZero 700 btw.

If we want to be safe, however, potential power draw of my system can be much higher. If we crank everything up (and I will keep everything cranked up), and all my hard drives are still spinning, it can reach potential 650W load. The app even goes as far to recommend me a 1000W PSU itself.

https://outervision.com/b/DmPkqY

My goal is just to keep during peak loads (up to 500W) the psu fan spinning at it's minimum rpm, staying below audiable 20db, like the old X1050 did. That would be just perfect. Because right now, my psu fan gets louder than everything else when 1080 Ti starts doing it's thing. It can still stay in low rpm mode for less demanding games (like mobas) however, but when it goes full load, it just starts melting this psu. Going for "just" a 750W Seasonic doesn't seem much of an upgrade to me, I'm expecting similar noise levels on it, hence why I'm seriously considering the 1000W.

I just can't get any confirmation if the new Prime has the same quiet fan profile as X1050 did (below 20 db until 500W).


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:53 am 
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I'm not sure sesonic are load based, i think they are temp based, but i could be wrong.

If you decide to go with the prime 1000, let us know how it behaves with your load over a long gaming session.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:30 am 
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neocodex wrote:
I just can't get any confirmation if the new Prime has the same quiet fan profile as X1050 did (below 20 db until 500W).
KitGuru has reviewed both the Prime 1000W Gold and the Prime 1000W Platinum. I don't see that noise at around 500w power draw would be an issue with either of them, if the data and analysis of noise levels is to be believed. It might be worth considering the Prime 1200w Platinum which in the UK only costs a touch (£10) more than the 1000w model and according to KitGuru as least would be quieter than either of the 1000w models at the lower power draw levels.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:02 am 
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neocodex wrote:
The app even goes as far to recommend me a 1000W PSU itself.

https://outervision.com/b/DmPkqY

The outervision calculator is just a marketing tool which puts out random figures. At best it's unreliable, more probably that not it's deceiving.
TL;DR: forget it.

If you have an 115x CPU, likely you won't ever need a PSU beefier than 550W, but knowing full specs and actual usage pattern will help considerably to meaningfully advice you.


neocodex wrote:
I just can't get any confirmation if the new Prime has the same quiet fan profile as X1050 did (below 20 db until 500W).

The old X1050 findings are no more valid since years: Seasonic replaced that unit with a more conservative (aggressive) lineup way long ago, so they likely don't have any kW unit which is really quiet (as quiet as the very first X-1050), albeit that mostly depends of your actual ambient temp (as rather usual with Seasonic).

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:17 am 
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Abula wrote:
I'm not sure sesonic are load based, i think they are temp based, but i could be wrong.

Corsair's RMx and up SKUs use an MCU which can be programmed to have a certain fan curve according to actual load and duration of speed at given RPMs.

While Corsair was the only player to exploit a load controlled fan in PSUs for many years (since the first AXi series), HEC and Seasonic now use an IC with a somewhat similar functionality: albeit it's not as powerful as a fully fledged MCU, that IC is way cheaper, therefore we need to get some experience about that, to see whether it can actually solve the main problem with semi-passive fan controllers, i.e. unpredictable fan speeds, or not.
AFAIK Seasonic currently optimized that IC to better control the fan hysteresis, in order to avoid that annoying on/off behaviour in borderline conditions.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:31 pm 
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I havent seen much info about the 1000 Titanuim, havent seen a review from the places are considered for their PSU testing. That said i think the 850 is a very good PSU none the less, probably one of the best that i seen in reviews, here are some remarks,

JonnyGuru Reviews - Seasonic Prime 850W - Perfect 10. In regards to the fan, on page 3,

Quote:
The fan stayed off a really long time on this unit, lasting until test five before it came on.
If you see the page, test 5 is 5 847.8W/928.0W, so it practically was passive up to what its rated, so it should remain passive for most of your load with the GTX1080Ti/7700 even OCed. That said i still have my doubts into if it would also trigger on temperature, you shouldnt ever even reach close 600W even OCing hard.

Now going with KitGuru, first checking the 1200W Prime Platinum which was pretty impressive none the less, has the following comment that also repeats in lot of his psu reviews,

Quote:
If money is no object then we also do recommend the Seasonic PRIME Titanium 850W. It has huge power reserves and ultimate efficiency levels

Now chekcing his Seasonic PRIME Titanium 850W review,

Quote:
Technically it is difficult to find anything to fault. The Titanium rated power supply excels in load regulation and ripple suppression, hitting a top 2% of units we have tested in the last year. Power delivery is stellar – we were able to hold close to a 1000 watt load for an extended period of time without a problem. Over-specifying power delivery has been a Seasonic feature for some time, so it is reassuring to see that this has not changed in 2016.

The pure modular design and very low noise levels will suit an audience who are building either a low noise system or a high end media/gaming center for close to a television set in the living room.
The PSU seems impressive from wherever you see it, if you want to go with 1000W i doubt its going to be less impressive, but for the price idk if it would beat how the 850 behave, its 91%+ from 80W to 850W, and turns the fan very late and remains with decent temps below 650W, and to be honest, i bought the 650W, im regretting not investing the extra $50, their efficiencies are very similar, but the cables of PCIe.... the 850 comes with single cables while the 650 comes with the duals... i never liked this, and probably going to spend some on custom cables now.... either way good luck with whatever you decide.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:25 am 
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Thanks for replies, it seems even 850W might be good enough considering the fan didn't turn on until 800W test...

On the other hand, I'm scratching my head thinking how the hell did the fan not turn on until 800W test? How long were the tests? It would probably not behave the same in a hot case with a hot gpu near it. Should still be good enough, I guess.

Another option I have is buying the good old X-1050 for 265€, which is a bit more expensive than the 1000W titanium (which is not availble atm, but 850W is) in my regional store, so have we just been discussing

- did I get this right -

that the old X series had a quieter fan profile than the new Primes?

Because you can still buy this model in EU.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:46 am 
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It's your money, you are the only one that has to live with the choice you make, personally i would go with the 850, cheaper,ore efficient, and it's probably quieter.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:19 am 
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Yes you can indeed still find the Seasonic X-1050 on sale but you need to be aware that the more recent XM2 version is a lot noisier than the original XM release that was tested by SPCR.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:28 am 
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neocodex wrote:
that the old X series had a quieter fan profile than the new Primes?

Who knows? The old X-series got a temp controlled (thermistor) fan, the Titanium Primes got a new IC-based fan controller.

BTW having a PSU with a too wide fanless operation range might be counterproductive, because it will likely heat up the whole rig (and that will be more noticeable with a gold-rated PSU, rather than a titanium-rated one).

Last but not least, you still didn't publish the whole specs, so that, as far as we know, such high capacity PSUs may be probably pointless.


neocodex wrote:
Because you can still buy this model in EU.

No, likely you can't (buy the X-1050 version which SPCR reviewed).

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:08 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
neocodex wrote:
that the old X series had a quieter fan profile than the new Primes?

Who knows? The old X-series got a temp controlled (thermistor) fan, the Titanium Primes got a new IC-based fan controller.

BTW having a PSU with a too wide fanless operation range might be counterproductive, because it will likely heat up the whole rig (and that will be more noticeable with a gold-rated PSU, rather than a titanium-rated one).

Last but not least, you still didn't publish the whole specs, so that, as far as we know, such high capacity PSUs may be probably pointless.


neocodex wrote:
Because you can still buy this model in EU.

No, likely you can't (buy the X-1050 version which SPCR reviewed).


Regarding the case, my plans are here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=69739

This one has locked off PSU compartment from the rest of the system, which I'm not sure yet how good of an advantage it is, but it seems nice.

Image

And full specs were posted here: https://outervision.com/b/DmPkqY

I was also looking at other options like Bitfenix Whisper 750 but it's build quality and 7 year warranty (and projected 7 year uptime for their fan, my system runs 24/7) didn't convince me. Because it seems very much like the current unit I have (ASM XZero 700) which has a rather noisy fan, also spinning at about 800+ rpm when it gets warm. Even if manually turn it on permanently like the Bitfenix method, it's still noisy even at the lowest setting.

These two just doesn't seem comparable to the reviews from 850-1000 models that didn't even break a sweat until 500W load. Or maybe it's just the fan on my current PSU that has this annoying sound, and I'm worrying too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:36 am 
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neocodex wrote:
This one has locked off PSU compartment from the rest of the system, which I'm not sure yet how good of an advantage it is, but it seems nice.

Image

It wouldn't look like a smart move: you likely won't heat up the rig, but you will heat up the PSU for sure, speeding up the fan and shortening the PSU life.


neocodex wrote:
And full specs were posted here: https://outervision.com/b/DmPkqY

Apparently there's no need for an 850W unit (go figure a 1000 or more watts one). Unless you're planning some extreme overclocking, of course, but that would entirely defeat the goal of a quiet system.

Personally, for an about 400W expected power draw, I would think to an EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W, or a Corsair RM650i, or eventually to a Be Quiet Dark Power Pro P11 550W or maybe 650W.

That's mainly because you have to take into consideration that when such a system were under heavy load, the PSU fan noise would be the last of your concerns, so IMHO it's pretty pointless aiming at a 500W fanless operation range, which would also put some pressure on your hardware, reliability-wise.

Said that, do what you think best.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:23 am 
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Well thanks for answers, it's just that I have a really bad experience with my current setup as described, I allready have a good semipassive PSU which just cannnot cope with the power draw of 1080 Ti.

The current PSU is, by far the loudest component in the system. :(

It did great with the GTX 970, remaining passive or at inaudible low rpm with that card and I would recommend it if you have a gpu of lower tdp. But it's just not cut out for anything beefier.

Rest of the system (at the moment) is

i5 4670K [email protected], 1.28V
Cpu cooling: Scythe Ashura @ 1000 rpm - cpu at ~60°
Asus Strix 1080 Ti @ 1000 rpm at ~60° low load, 1600 rpm at ~80° high load

In a closed R4 (no window) case. Very acceptable, low noise levels at what is quiet low rpm for the gpu. I usually run it higher to stay near or below 70°, but even at 2000 rpm (which becomes very loud on the 1080 Strix for my taste, 970 Strix was much quieter) the damn PSU will still start this whining annoying fan noise that's driving me crazy.

I don't want to risk buying another 700W psu that will do exactly the same, hence why I consider going higher to be safe. Tough it's possible that my ASM doesn't come close in quality/quitness to the other psu's suggested. The little reviews it got on the web those weren't very good, even tough it looks like a solid piece of tech.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:08 am 
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You could consider using the PWM fan headers on the Strix card to run additional case cooling fans to help keep the GPU fan speeds in check. Prime target would be the side-fan position, and maybe the top rear exhaust as well. If you can find them the original Thermalright TY-147A, the oblong one, would be a good choice as it is very quiet (sub-300 rpm) at around 30% PWM duty cycle which is where the GPU card PWM fan headers on Asus cards tend to start from. The TY-147A is one of those fans with a 140mm rotor with 120mm fixing points; it will work OK with the Fractal Design R4. Using Asus GPU TweakII software would help to achieve the optimum cooling/noise balance.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:20 am 
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neocodex wrote:
In a closed R4 ... the damn PSU will still start this whining annoying fan noise...
I can see a few reasons for this:
1. You have the PSU mounted with the fan facing upwards. At high load it will suck warm air from the graphics card, increasing the fan speed further.
2. The PSU is mounted with the fan down. The dust filter is clogged, forcing the fan to spin hard.
3. The bearing of the PSU fan is badly worn, causing noise at higher speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:50 am 
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Olle P wrote:
neocodex wrote:
In a closed R4 ... the damn PSU will still start this whining annoying fan noise...
I can see a few reasons for this:
1. You have the PSU mounted with the fan facing upwards. At high load it will suck warm air from the graphics card, increasing the fan speed further.
2. The PSU is mounted with the fan down. The dust filter is clogged, forcing the fan to spin hard.
3. The bearing of the PSU fan is badly worn, causing noise at higher speeds.


Yes, you were right about #1!

It was indeed mounted upwards and for a good reason at the time before I installed 1080 Ti. Whenever I mount it upside down, the fan gets this clicking noise whenever it starts it's minimum rpm mode, it sounds like it's hitting something. It's an extremely loud, random, hair-pulling nerve wrecking noise. The only way to prevent it is to keep the fan in always on mode at the standard low rpm, but this is quite higher than the semi-passive mode, and spl levels are close to what my Strix puts out at 45% (about 1.500 rpm), which is not quiet.

It started doing this a year after I got it (I initially had it turned upside down) but then I just turned it around to avoid the issue. Combined with lower power draw and lower heat exhausted from the weaker gpus, the fan never had to spin into higher rpm ranges where it would start becoming noticeable.

So I turned it around again.

Wow! What an improvement. Seriously. This is night and day.

When it was installed upside, even with the permanent always on mode, the backside grills got very hot to the touch and it was still spinning up additionally above that rpm sometimes. But now, it's actually emitting cold air even during high load (the lowest rpm setting is just way more that's required)!

Not just that. It's way more quieter now! I don't know why it was whining so much when it was on the other side, the sound is way more deeper and less noticeable now. It's more turbulent than mechanical, which is a lot more pleasing to the ear.

If only it did not make clicking noises in semipassive mode, it would be great, but alas that feature is broken on mine.

So now that I got this out of the way, considering I' have to install every psu this way, and hoping that the fan won't break into clicking mode on the other ones... This has to be an extremely rare case, right?

I don't think I have to go into extreme high wattage anymore, and could do with some of the suggested 750s, as my current unit is a proof of concept where medium fan speed keeps it extremely cold, so any kind of low rpm semipassive cool should be enough as long as it's properly installed upside down. But I'm still really hyped up for Prime Titanium 850, I don't mind spending a bit more as long if it's really a better (best) option.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Seasonic Prime 1000W be quieter than 750W?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:09 am 
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I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 850, as 750 was not in stock and I didn't want to wait. It might be a bit overkill, but I got a good price for it which was still cheaper than a 750 Platinum if bought locally. I expect this thing to be dead silent. Now, it's just about making that 1080 ti a bit quieter..


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