Homebrew drive enclosure

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:40 pm

Elliot wrote:slimeballzz, since you are asking about the coolpacks, I assume you already tracked down a container.

Any Canadian sources you can point to?

Yes I found the container. I believe it's the same one alleycat is using. I found them here: http://www.mainelectronics.com/enclosures.htm
I have not yet picked them up yet but eventually will as soon as I can find the coolpacks though I haven't exactly went to look through local stores yet.

I did find an online store here: http://www.customgelpax.com/products.ht ... ld%20Packs but the price seems really high and I question how much air is in the package.

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:49 pm

For those who already have made their enclosure(s), do you have any foam in there?

If the gelpacks are suppose to transfer the heat from the drive to the enclosure, won't the foam just hinder the heat transfer?

nici · Post by **nici** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:34 pm

slimeballzz wrote:For those who already have made their enclosure(s), do you have any foam in there?

If the gelpacks are suppose to transfer the heat from the drive to the enclosure, won't the foam just hinder the heat transfer?

I used a gel-pack on the bottom and sides of the HDD(the hot parts), and thick foam on the top(the not so hot part)

Now i need to find another source for enclosures though, the one i bought the slightly too small boxes from doesn´t have the 222x146 boxes at all..

187,5x187,5 square boxes are the best they have.. Though suppose i could use them too.

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:03 am

nici wrote:
slimeballzz wrote:For those who already have made their enclosure(s), do you have any foam in there?

If the gelpacks are suppose to transfer the heat from the drive to the enclosure, won't the foam just hinder the heat transfer?
I used a gel-pack on the bottom and sides of the HDD(the hot parts), and thick foam on the top(the not so hot part)

Now i need to find another source for enclosures though, the one i bought the slightly too small boxes from doesn´t have the 222x146 boxes at all.. 187,5x187,5 square boxes are the best they have.. Though suppose i could use them too.

How are your temps for the HDD (idle & max load)?
In the pics of your previous post I'm assuming you only needed one gel pack?

How did your enclosure work out? Did you ever dremel out the mddle screw mountings?

You could always change your HDD to a Notebook HDD which will definitely fit in your enclosure

fingers · Post by **fingers** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:22 am

slimeballzz wrote:For those who already have made their enclosure(s), do you have any foam in there?

If the gelpacks are suppose to transfer the heat from the drive to the enclosure, won't the foam just hinder the heat transfer?

I put a narrow strip of thick foam along the bottom of the enclosure, the coolpak still touches the floor of the enclosure on either side of the foam. The foam seems to help remove any vibration that makes it through the coolpak and has no noticable effect on temperture of the drive.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:31 am

slimeballzz wrote: How are your temps for the HDD (idle & max load)?
In the pics of your previous post I'm assuming you only needed one gel pack?

How did your enclosure work out? Did you ever dremel out the mddle screw mountings?

You could always change your HDD to a Notebook HDD which will definitely fit in your enclosure

IIRC the temps stayed under 40c with almost no airflow, if i opened the window with my case open temps dropped about 5-7c. So overall i´d say its pretty good. And yes i only use one gelpack, i couldnt fit more, and there was actually only room for 3-4mm foam on top because the gelpack got "fat" when stuffed in the small box. I couldnt fit it on the sides of the drive.

I didnt dremel out the middle things, would not really have helped anything since the box is too small for a 3,5" HDD anyway.

And currently i do use a 80Gb samsung sata 2,5" HDD, but since im used to the Raptor it feels very slow. Seriously noticeable in load-times for games and when using Photoshop for example. With this HDD i was able to use proper thick and heavy foam on top of the drive, and its inaudible from any distance

The notebook HDD stays at 29°c, wich is just 7-8°c over room temp

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:03 pm

Thanks for all the input guys! I just bought a enclosure (would have bought two but only one left).

I still need to find the cool packs though I still haven't really put time in looking. I do want to try and find ones that are using a clear pouch so I can see the amount of air inside the pouch.

I will update as soon as I find the gelpacks.

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:22 pm

Should I be looking for the "Hot / Cold Pack" or will the "Cold Pack" be the better choice?

Also I guess it wouldn't matter if it's the "solid when frozen" or "flexible when frozen" variant right?

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:57 pm

I'd stick to "Hot/Cold Packs" rather than "Cold Packs", myself. A "Cold Pack" might not be designed to handle hot temperatures, but a "Hot/Cold Pack" will be designed to handle hotter temps than any hard drive.

theyangster · Post by **theyangster** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:21 pm

I dunno

I'd stay with the cold packs

since the hot/cold packs are designed to be either, once they get hot, they stay hot!

my experience tells me that pacs specifically labelled cold did somewhat better

course now I was able to snag a smart drive 2002 off someone for $30, so it's not worthwhile anymore to do this

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:20 am

theyangster wrote:since the hot/cold packs are designed to be either, once they get hot, they stay hot!

Sorry, but this one made me laugh.

All those coolpack/coldpack/hotcoldpack etc. are based on the same principle. A gel or liquid with a high heatcapacity contained in some kind of plastic bag. This means all of them will retain their temperature longer than their environment. It does not matter if this is a lower or a higher temperature. The only difference I can see is that the plastic of the bag of some of the cool packs is not designed for high temperatures. But then again in an enclosure as described here the temperatures should not go over 50°C, so I don't see that bea problem.

theyangster · Post by **theyangster** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:09 am

yes, but one would think that cold pack gel would be different from the hot/cold pack gel, no?

I dunno, my seagate 120gb ran pretty hot and it got to the point where the gel packs stayed warm, perhaps raising the drive temp more

Sure, if you have a cold boot, the drives will stay cooler for a while, but from my experience, once they pass a certain threshold, they're not going to get any cooler

I only made the comment above based on my experiences, of course others have different experiences/drives

nici · Post by **nici** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:23 am

My raptor stayed slightly under 40°c even after weeks of running 24/7, with almost no airflow

And the temp seems to be pretty accurate, i did open the box and he drive was just abit warm to the touch.

The packs stay warm for hours just sitting on the table in a 20-22°c room.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:11 pm

theyangster wrote:yes, but one would think that cold pack gel would be different from the hot/cold pack gel, no?

No, it won't behave any different.

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:19 pm

Do you guys think the "Cold Packs" will be able to handle the heat of the HDD for an extended period of time?

The "Hot/Cold Packs" are almost double the price of the "Cold Packs"

theyangster · Post by **theyangster** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:20 pm

Tibors wrote:
theyangster wrote:yes, but one would think that cold pack gel would be different from the hot/cold pack gel, no?
No, it won't behave any different.

so it is a marketing gimmick?

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:47 pm

The name they put on it (only cold or hot/cold) is indeed determined by the marketing department. The same goes for the price. The more expensive one might have a better quality bag, but it could also just be a more expensive brand or fancier retail packaging you are paying for.

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:06 pm

A hot/cold pack might have a higher maximum temperature, to allow you to heat it up, possibly in a microwave?

Anyway, the whole idea of using a gel pack to cool a hard drive has no basis thermodynamically that I can see. The gel pack will soon warm up to the HDD temperature, thus ending any "cooling" effect. After that, the gel pack will act as a mild insulator, resisting heat transfer off the drive, causing its temperature to rise above what it would be if the gel pack was not there.

The job here is not any different than cooling a CPU - you need to get the heat (energy) off the device. Would you use a gel pack between a CPU and its heatsink? No way! In the case of a drive enclosure, the HDD is like the CPU, and the enclosure is the heatsink. The objective is to find the most effective way to transfer (not store!) the heat from the HDD to the external enclosure.

Therefore, you should be thinking metal-on-metal for that side of the drive, and something like gap pads for the PCB component side of the HDD. Gap pads work well because they are electrically insulating and transfer heat well.

This is the approach taken by engineers that design commercial hard drive enclosures. You don't see gel packs in them, do you?

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:11 pm

TomZ wrote:Anyway, the whole idea of using a gel pack to cool a hard drive has no basis thermodynamically that I can see. The gel pack will soon warm up to the HDD temperature, thus ending any "cooling" effect. After that, the gel pack will act as a mild insulator, resisting heat transfer off the drive, causing its temperature to rise above what it would be if the gel pack was not there.

I made the exact same argument when I first came across this concept here on the SPCR forums. However, the experience of people actually using it is that they do indeed transfer heat well enough to be useful.

No one is saying that gel packs are particularly good at transfering heat, just that they're good enough and that they're better than other sound/vibration reducing materials. In particular, they're better than foam or air gaps within a (full) enclosure.

theyangster · Post by **theyangster** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:24 pm

IsaacKuo wrote: I made the exact same argument when I first came across this concept here on the SPCR forums. However, the experience of people actually using it is that they do indeed transfer heat well enough to be useful.

No one is saying that gel packs are particularly good at transfering heat, just that they're good enough and that they're better than other sound/vibration reducing materials. In particular, they're better than foam or air gaps within a (full) enclosure.

true, it is better than putting a drive inside an aluminum box without anything

in short they are cheap/effective way to shut poor hard drives into aluminum boxes without exceeding 55C

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:38 pm

Gel packs are very effective at transferring heat, just feel the outside of my aluminum boxes - warm to almost hot. Effective enough to keep my drives, on 24/7, at 40C and under, not 55C.

It's important to have good contact between gel pack and metal box, just like between heatsink and CPU. You really need to make things snug in there with as few air pockets as possible and the gel packs really snug, sandwiching the drives.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:12 pm

Badger wrote:Gel packs are very effective at transferring heat, just feel the outside of my aluminum boxes - warm to almost hot.

The conductivity of the gel packs won't actually have any effect on the temperature of the outside of the box (after a steady state temperature has been reached). Whether what's between the hard drive and the outer case is solid copper or insulative foam, the total amount of heat being transfered will remain the same. That amount of heat will equal the amount of heat the hard drive generates.

What the conductivity does affect is how hot the hard drive has to get in order to transmit that amount of heat. This will affect the steadystate temperature of the hard drive, but not the steadystate temperature of the outer box.

Effective enough to keep my drives, on 24/7, at 40C and under, not 55C.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:03 am

Whether what's between the hard drive and the outer case is solid copper or insulative foam, the total amount of heat being transfered will remain the same.

Yes, but the rate of heat transfer will be very different for copper and insulating foam. The job of a heat removal mechanism is to move thermal energy W in a time s to a given mass of air M. A material with higher thermal conductivity will reduce the value of s, and thus improve cooling.

Le_Gritche · Post by **Le_Gritche** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:25 am

jaganath wrote:The job of a heat removal mechanism is to move thermal energy W in a time s to a given mass of air M. A material with higher thermal conductivity will reduce the value of s, and thus improve cooling.

W is J/s so by definition it's for 1 second. What you are looking for is "Q in a time s to a given mass of air" or "W every second during a time s"
Reducing the value of s, means only that you will reach a steady state faster (the heat wave travels faster).
As it's always the same HDD, the heat flow will be the same.
As it's always the same aluminum box, the outside temperature of the box will be the same (that's what was explaining IsaacKuo).
In a steady state, time becomes irrelevant so the difference will only be in the temperature delta between the two sides of the gel pack/copper/foam, because to have the same heat flow you need a higher delta if that flow moves slowerly.
As the outside box will have the same temperature, that difference will translate in a hotter HDD.
You are focusing on the transitionnal state, and IsaacKuo on the steady state. That's why the results are not incompatible.

fingers · Post by **fingers** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:47 am

Surely all this comparing of thermal dynamics is a mute point!

Just try it for yourself and see how much this solution will silence your drive while keeping it well within the recommended temperature range. This is after all the result we are looking for!

Practise beats out theory every time

atmo · Post by **atmo** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:01 am

I've just tried this myself, and have to say that it works extremely well.

The drive i used was a WD2500JS, which is fairly quiet at idle, but seeks are plainly audible even a couple of meters away (in a quiet room) with the drive sitting on foam or suspended. That's with AAM enabled and at it's quietest setting.

In the enclosure, idle and seek noise are almost non-existant, except when i place my ear right up to the enclosure. It was even possible to disable AAM without a significant increase in noise output.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:56 pm

Yeah i think it´s agreed earlier n this thread that even though this idea doesn´t look that good in theory, it works very well in practice

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:41 pm

I think I have access to all necessary equipment to make my own hot/cold pack.

Is it just distilled water and sodium acetate trihydrate?
I'm assuming the more viscous the gel is the better?

The packaging is mylar plastic so that should be okay right?

TomZ · Post by **TomZ** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:05 pm

I kind of wonder about you guys sometimes - making your own gel packs?!?

slimeballzz · Post by **slimeballzz** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:34 pm

TomZ wrote:I kind of wonder about you guys sometimes - making your own gel packs?!?

It's FREE

Well it's not exactly me making it, it's my friend.

Anyways I found the ingredients to making the gel pack here:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=276833

Ingredients are:
Water, Table Salt 96%
Cellusize
Blue Coloring Dye (food grade)
Ucarcide (250 preservative) 0.05%

I don't think I can get the "Ucarcide" though =\