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 Post subject: IBM's 180GXP series: 8MB cache + Fluid Dynamic Bearings
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2002 11:08 am 
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Location: Seattle
C'T (German magazine) objective noise analysis (for those of you who don't know, these guys are very professional):

drive noise w/o accesses: 0.9 sone.
w/ accesses in "quiet" mode: 1.1 Sone.
in "fast" mode: 1.7 Sone.

For comparison, the Seagate Cuda V: 0.6
1.4
2.7 Sone

Sone is not logarithmic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:43 pm 
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Location: swindon- england :/
right someone rich get them, and test them
then send me the quietest
:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:42 pm 
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storage review did a write-up on them.
very nice. great f/raid :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2002 1:02 am 
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Well the major point being that it's much faster than the Barracuda drives, while being only ever so slightly louder at most. C'T has acquired a very good reputation for scientific, precise, well-informed approaches to determining their stats -- I trust them. StorageReview, well, need I say more? It's perhaps ~the~ most renowned storage site in the world. That they both report essentially the same thing about the IBM drive is very reassuring. I'm 90% certain that my soon-to-arrive 180GXP suspended in NoVibes III will be every bit as silent as my Barracuda IV's suspended in NV III. This is very good news for me, as I've become very impatient with Seagate's willingess or perhaps ability to produce large hard drives. 80GB was their largest for far too long, and that they only increased that to 120GB is a very poor showing IMO. I may be the exception, though. Most people don't voraciously consume their HDD space the way I do. And most people are willing to make sacrifices and delete stuff. I guess I'm just a pack-rat.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:09 pm 
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A bit of bad news maybe. Two users in the same thread @ SR report hearing chirps (like crickets) every 5-10 minutes from their 180GXP drives. In the absence of mitigating information, I'm in a holding pattern in regards to which HDD I'll buy next. Perhaps Maxtor 200GB FDB drives. Suspended in NoVibes, I can't imagine they'll be too audible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:52 pm 
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that isn't a happy news... i was actually getting too impatient for the seagate's 8mb sata line....

however it does show from sandra's result that seagate drives are below average as far as the performance is concerned.... but the inconceivable performance offset isn't as important as the audible difference imho.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:59 am 
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Well, I ordered and received 2 IBM 180GXP 180GB HDD's, and no crickets have sounded yet. But hot damn, I really need to replace the retail heatsink on my P4. It's loud and whiney.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:30 am 
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*2* 180gb drives? That's a lot of space. What are you using them for?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:34 pm 
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Location: minneapolis, MN
Well I would set them up in a raid 1 array or a some type of backup setup. I dont consider a one drive solution acceptable for anyone who values the work they do on their computer. If all you do is browse the internet then maybe it doesnt matter if your drive fails, but for me, everything I have on my computer is important and worth protecting, even more than having a quieter computer with one drive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:45 am 
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JohnMK wrote:
A bit of bad news maybe. Two users in the same thread @ SR report hearing chirps (like crickets) every 5-10 minutes from their 180GXP drives.


That's sadly true :cry:
I'm the owner of a 120GXP and I've experienced those short intrusive buzzing noise (resembling crickets or trapped flies) lasting two second every 10 minutes.
See my post in this forum...
I'm very upset that IBM didn't mention about this periodical noise anywhere in the docs. or in their web site.
Only after contacting them by e-mail they confirmed it was a servicing routine made to enhance the reliability of the drive and they added that can't be disabled :x

A very upset customer of IBM...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:45 am 
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All of the IBM drives (about 4 of them, 40-80gb) I bought for systems in 2001 had the exact same condition. once in a while the drive 'chirped'. I've stopped buying them and stopped recommending them. 2 of them failed and went back. Not happy with IBM or Maxtor in the past 2 years. Too many failures. Very happy with Seagate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:52 am 
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Posts: 331
Location: Belgium
I am never again in my life buying IBM harddisks! Not even if they are quieter than Seagates! I bought 2 IBM 80 gig HD's (7200rpm) and they both died within a month! Of course I could've had them both rma'd and replaced for free, but that doesn't bring back my data. I was luckily refunded. I really can't recommend IBM harddisks.

*praises Seagate*


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:33 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
I'm with Gandalf.

I have an unopened 120GXP and a 60GXP from RMA's. They are for absolute emergencies only. After two failures and two DOA's, IBM's won't ever again see the insides of my computer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:08 pm 
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Location: minneapolis, MN
While I cant argue with anyones bad experience, I feel the need to stick up a bit for IBM drives. I have 4 60gxps for about a year and a half now and have never had a problem with them. As far as performance, IBM consistently produces the absolute top performers. I can understand people being wary, but any drive can fail. For those that dont back up data, you are just asking for problems no matter what brand of drive you use.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:35 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
for those with the cricket harddrives have you tried turning on the acoustic management? i am still undecided on what i should get for my next harddrive.. ('cuda vs 180gxp). i was leaning towards the ibm, but these chirping sounds are making me wonder.

but like nate i have an old school ibm drive.. i think its the 75gxp.. @ 30 gigs and its been in my system for about 3 years w/o any problems or noises.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:38 am 
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NateR, it's understood that any drive can fail. However, if you have a high percentage of failing drives, that's a problem. I believe IBM has recently received bad publicity because of this. I might be mistaken (please correct me someone in case I'm wrong) but there was a recent class action lawsuit against IBM for producing drives with a high failure rate.

I had a couple of IBM HDs a couple of years back but had no problems. My personal bad experience was with Fujitsu drives.

Today, I'm 100% Seagate and proud of it! :twisted: oops, I mean :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:15 am 
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Location: minneapolis, MN
I agree that a abnormally high amount of failing drives is a big problem. And I also think that if IBM had something to share with us about their drives and didnt, that is very bad business. However, despite personal accounts of failing drives, as of yet I see no conlclusive evidence on the issue. I think the most that can be said is that buyer should beware of the issue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 11:35 pm
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Location: Amsterdam
About the chirping and the (un)reliability of IBM drives: they are related. The early series of the IBM drives we're talking about crashed when they were idling for some time. The seeking arms lubrication would fail because the lubricant got stuck in one place instead of being spread by the movement of the arm. That's why some people never had the problem and some had.
IBM solved the problem with updated firmware that moves the arm backup and forth a couple of times every 10 minutes or so, to get the lubrication spread. Hence the chirping sound that periodically comes from newer IBM disks. The firmware should be available for older drives as well, so check their website or contact support about it. I'm actually surprised that it bothers anyone more than the seeking sound of it, but if they say so, I don't have any experience with them.
This thread made me very interested in the IBM drives (is Hitachi, the new owner of IBM storage division, going to do just as well?), and IBMs story about the firmware updgrade sounds plausible enough for me to jump.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:52 pm 
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unfortunately for us silent nuts, we undervolt the few fans we do have and such. cooling ibms is the key. i've heard about many 75 gxps that are still living well as secindary drives. they are well cooled. ive also heard about 75gxps that have died many times (like gotten a lot of rma's on one purchase) because they wee not properly cooled. even ibm sayas trhey need a lot of cooling.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:08 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Gerwin wrote:
I'm actually surprised that it bothers anyone more than the seeking sound of it, but if they say so, I don't have any experience with them.


Yeah this surprises me too. Without hearing it myself, I'd assume that the sound couldn't be worse than an intense seeking process, and if this is so, is normal seeking itself annoying or not?

Couldn't find any comparisons between AAM on/off, in terms of noise or performance, which would be interesting too.

One other thing which I've got to ask, what boards/chipsets support drives larger than 137gb? My old BE6-II doesn't stand a chance :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2003 1:02 am 
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After some further reading, I can answer one of my own questions. :)

A PCI IDE controller will allow any board to support over 137gb drives.

Also, I'm not 100% sure on this one, but a board supporting ATA133 will support drives >137gb.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:20 pm 
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I want four of those ibms... raid 0/1, so who cars if a few die... just don't have a pc for a dew days thats all...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:06 am 
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RMA'd the last of my IBM 75GXP drives to Hitachi recently -- a 30G 2 platter model at least 2 years old. Bought in the good old days of 3 yr warranties. Somehow the electrical connection seemed intermittent. Took a while to get a drive back. Absentmindedly formatted/installed Win XP a couple days back... then realized today, this thing is REALLY quiet! The 75GXP had been my noisiest drive; all the rest are no 'cudas, so many that's what I did not notice right away.

Side by side with a 'cuda IV single platter: the IBM has just a touch of high frequency whine, while the 'cuda has almost none. WOW! Looked up the model # at Hitachi storage: IC35L030AVV207-0. Turns out to be a 180GXP 1-platter model with FDB bearing.

Very impressed with the low noise level. Haven't heard any chirping yet -- not really sat & used that PC for any length of time, but in a suspension, it makes as little noise as a 'cuda IV 1-platter. It may even have a bit less vibration.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:35 am 
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Location: minneapolis, MN
Wow I'd be psyched to get a 180gxp back for an rma too! I recently purchased a 120gb version, and i am very impressed with the noise levels. Excellent performing drive as well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:16 am 
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MikeC wrote:
RMA'd the last of my IBM 75GXP drives to Hitachi recently -- a 30G 2 platter model at least 2 years old. Bought in the good old days of 3 yr warranties. Somehow the electrical connection seemed intermittent. Took a while to get a drive back. Absentmindedly formatted/installed Win XP a couple days back... then realized today, this thing is REALLY quiet! The 75GXP had been my noisiest drive; all the rest are no 'cudas, so many that's what I did not notice right away.

Side by side with a 'cuda IV single platter: the IBM has just a touch of high frequency whine, while the 'cuda has almost none. WOW! Looked up the model # at Hitachi storage: IC35L030AVV207-0. Turns out to be a 180GXP 1-platter model with FDB bearing.

Very impressed with the low noise level. Haven't heard any chirping yet -- not really sat & used that PC for any length of time, but in a suspension, it makes as little noise as a 'cuda IV 1-platter. It may even have a bit less vibration.


Maybe time for review on it for recommended list?
I always felt that 180gxp didn't get the attention it needed based on my experience of it. Frankly, I thought the seek noise from cuda IV was louder than IBM. (subjective)
The only possible problem is the temperature of the device when suspended vs cuda IV. those 2-3c difference could make difference without some active cooling when "optimizing" for few hours on such massive beasts.
BTW, you probably haven't noticed that irregular sound coming out of the drive when using since you suspended it. Suspending it does wonders to those occasional hdd random lubrication process (I need to be within a feet to notice that sound without thinking)

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