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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:44 am 
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cool...I was hoping to get the 320GB as a system drive and a larger .10 as a storage drive.

waiting for SPCR and SR to do a review though.

Are the additional platters creating the noise during seek? if that's the case....the 320GB should still be quiet with only 2 platters. true?


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:29 am 
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HueyCobra wrote:
I think it's disappointing too ... because 200GB platters would enable a 1TB drive! :D

I wouldn't be surprised if Hitachi releases a 5 x 200GB platter drive later this year or early 07. The other companies will probably use a 4 x 240-250GB platter design. What do you guys use all this storage space for! :wink:

andyb wrote:
...I will let you know tomorrow whether the drive being in a P180 sounds quieter (my colleauge has a P180). Personally I think the long seeks will be easily audiable, the short seeks and idle noises will vanish.

Any new updates from your friend?

aztec wrote:
...waiting for SPCR and SR to do a review though.

Are the additional platters creating the noise during seek? if that's the case....the 320GB should still be quiet with only 2 platters. true?

Generally speaking, more platters=higher idle noise, more heads=higher seek noise. Also, power consumption, heat and vibration will likely increase. So yes, the 320GB should be quieter than the 750GB.

I'm hoping Seagate or FrontierPC will be able to supply SPCR with the 320GB and the 750GB. :)


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:12 pm 
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The bad news.............

I havent asked my freind what the drive sounds like in his P180.

The good news............

He's got another one turning up on Wednesday, I will have a listen and let you know if sample #2 is better than sample #1.


Andy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:00 am 
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As a side note:

The 750GB 7200.10 is a VERY quick drive, there are vaious revies around the net.

However I benchmarked the 80GB 7200.9 against the 750GB 7200.10, they are both very quick.

The problem arises when I look at the sequential read speeds that HDTach gives me. I had just looked at "Simpli Software's" website to check whether they have a newer version, they dont V. 3.0.1.0 is the current version.

http://www.simplisoftware.com/Public/in ... est=HdTach

Anandtech's sequential read speed of the 160GB 7200.9 (single platter, doubles sided) is 60.3MB/s.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdo ... i=2682&p=5

My sequential read of the 80GB 7200.9 (single platter, single side) is 111.2MB/s.

My sequential read of the 750GB 7200.10 is 117.7MB/s.

I cant believe those numbers, how and why did this happen.???


Andy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:29 am 
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andyb wrote:
My sequential read of the 80GB 7200.9 (single platter, single side) is 111.2MB/s.

My sequential read of the 750GB 7200.10 is 117.7MB/s.

I cant believe those numbers, how and why did this happen.???

Thanks again Andy. Could you be looking at the drive burst rate? Here are the results for my ST3200822AS (2 platters, 4 heads, 8MB cache and SATA-150).
Quick bench
Beg. TR ~65MB/s
End TR ~35MB/s
Avg. TR 54.7MB/s
Burst rate 106.8MB/s > Lame.
CPU 2-3% > It varies.
Random Access 12.7ms > 12.7ms-4.2ms= 8.5ms. Spot on Seagate's spec.

Keep in mind the test results can vary depending on which mobo chipset is being used. Also, if the mobo supports it, you can remove the jumper to enable SATA-300. Instructions will be on the 7200.10's white label.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:45 pm 
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Updated accurate info on 18th-May-2006 (screendumped), using an overclocked A64 3200+ @ 2.4GHz (939 pin). MSI K8N SLI Platinum, 1GB of RAM running @ 399MHz, motherboard BIOS up to date, no chipset/motherboard overclocking apart from running the CPU at a faster speed, and running the memory at 180 bus to keep it withing spec.

Both of these tests were done using HD Tach 3.0.1.0 (the current version). I used the long test for both drives, they were done once each without a reboot between.

7200.10 750 GB SATA

Beg: 140 (peaking at 147).
End: 70
Avg: 117.7
Burst: 242.2
CPU: 8% +/-2% (running @ 1100MHz CnC)
Random Access: 7.8ms

7200.9 80 GB SATA

Beg: 135 (no peaks, just incremental drops along the curve)
End: 64
Avg: 111.2
Burst: 153.7
CPU: 13% +/-2% (running @ 1100MHz CnC)
Random Access: 8.5ms


Andy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:48 pm 
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I have a 7200.10, 320GB model. I chose it for the capacity and because I expected a two platter drive to be quiet: it has met that expectation. Subjectively it is the quietest drive I have used. Here is a subjective comparison of the drives in my HTPC, with score 1 for the quietest and 5 for the loudest.

Seagate 7200.8 200GB Idle: 2 Seek: 4, 'sharp' noise
Seagate 7200.9 250GB Idle: 1 Seek: 3
Maxtor Diamondmax10 300GB Idle: 2-3 Seek: 2-3
(I have a whole bunch of Diamondmax10 bought at different times and there is some variation between them.)
Maxtor Diamondmax11 500GB Idle: 4 Seek: 5 (this drive not recommended in a quiet system!)
Seagate 7200.10 320GB Idle: 1 Seek: 1

In terms of vibration rather than direct motor noise, I can't really comment meaningfully as my drives are now either suspended in elastic or sitting on foam rubber as a bare drive in a drive rack enclosure. Before I did this the Diamondmax10 used to have not insignificant vibrations (some variation from unit to unit), Seagate generally seem better in that way.

The 7200.10 is also subjectively a fast drive in use (tested using 'QuickPar' parity checks of large files). All in all I'm pleased with it, except for the issue noted below.

On my system there is an incompatibilty between the 7200.10 and the Asus A8R32-MVP motherboard (with ULi M1575 Southbridge). When the drive is connected to one of the four Southbridge SATA ports then although its read performance is good, its write performance is severely slow, perhaps 25% of the proper write speed. Happily the motherboard has a fifth SATA port which is not driven by the Southbridge but by a SiI 3112 chip, and the 7200.10 works fine with that. Note: I've not tested this more extensively until I see whether or not the problem is replicated by others.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 4:39 am 
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Its good to hear from another proud owner of a 7200.10 drive.

I have a request, could you download and run "HDTach" and let us know your results.

Your HD Tach results may also give an indication of whether your problem is the SATA controller, or your test utility software.


Andy

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:21 am 
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Any of you compared to the Samsung P120 ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 11:49 am 
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andyb wrote:
Updated accurate info on 18th-May-2006 (screendumped),...

7200.10 750 GB SATA

Beg: 140 (peaking at 147).
End: 70
Avg: 117.7
Burst: 242.2
CPU: 8% +/-2% (running @ 1100MHz CnC)
Random Access: 7.8ms

7200.9 80 GB SATA

Beg: 135 (no peaks, just incremental drops along the curve)
End: 64
Avg: 111.2
Burst: 153.7
CPU: 13% +/-2% (running @ 1100MHz CnC)
Random Access: 8.5ms


Andy,

Those numbers just don't seem right. They almost look like RAID-0 instead of a single drive. I don't know what the problem could be. Then again maybe you received the FE (Freak Edition) drives. :) We likely won't see drive performance that good for several more years. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:19 pm 
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inti wrote:
I have a 7200.10, 320GB model. I chose it for the capacity and because I expected a two platter drive to be quiet: it has met that expectation. Subjectively it is the quietest drive I have used...

I'm happy to hear your drive is very quiet. However, it seems that for every person that has a quiet 7200.10, there is someone who claims to have a hellishly loud 7200.10. :? Could there be that much variance in Seagate's manufacturing? BTW, Does the Hitachi Feature Tool work on your Maxtor Diamondmax11 500GB? inti, thanks for your input. :)

inti wrote:
On my system there is an incompatibilty between the 7200.10 and the Asus A8R32-MVP motherboard (with ULi M1575 Southbridge). When the drive is connected to one of the four Southbridge SATA ports then although its read performance is good, its write performance is severely slow, perhaps 25% of the proper write speed. Happily the motherboard has a fifth SATA port which is not driven by the Southbridge but by a SiI 3112 chip, and the 7200.10 works fine with that. Note: I've not tested this more extensively until I see whether or not the problem is replicated by others.

Wow! Thanks for the info. Maybe Seagate has suffered from the curse of Maxtor (nforce4 problems)? :twisted: Seriously though, you should e-mail Seagate ASAP if you haven't already. IIRC, Maxtor's SATA-300 drives had some problems with certain SATA-300 controllers. The A8R32-MVP is a very popular board so please keep us updated on the situation.

FWIW, I noticed that Seagate is using 2 different controllers on the 7200.10. Review with ST controller and Preview with Agere controller. I don't know if that has anything to do with your or andyb's situations.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:12 pm 
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Goldmember, where did you hear that some 7200.10's are louder than others? Maybe it depends on what size. It seems like the 750 GB 7200.10 is loud. But that's the first account of the 320GB one I've seen. Are there others for the smaller sized 7200.10's?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:19 pm 
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andyb wrote:
I have a request, could you download and run "HDTach" and let us know your results.

Your HD Tach results may also give an indication of whether your problem is the SATA controller, or your test utility software.

I'll give it a go, but it may take a couple of days - my drive is installed in the family HTPC/media server, not a testbench! The "test utility" software I used was a simple drive to drive copy of a 10GB file, but happy to try something more scientific if that would be useful to other SPCR members.

Goldmember wrote:
I'm happy to hear your drive is very quiet. However, it seems that for every person that has a quiet 7200.10, there is someone who claims to have a hellishly loud 7200.10. Could there be that much variance in Seagate's manufacturing?

I would expect the 750GB to be a very loud drive - any four platter drive would be. But why are you surprised that my 320GB is quiet?
Quote:
BTW, Does the Hitachi Feature Tool work on your Maxtor Diamondmax11 500GB?

I'm not familiar with that tool, to be honest I would be extremely reluctant to try it on a non-Hitachi drive which contains 500GB of data unless it is guaranteed safe. I guess you are talking about switching on AAM? I am not interested in doing that as I am not troubled by the seek noise, my drives are rarely 'seeking' in normal media center use, only if I am doing maintenance tasks when the noise does not matter and I would rather have the raw speed. My main concern is idle noise.

Quote:
Maybe Seagate has suffered from the curse of Maxtor (nforce4 problems)?

The Diamondmax11 / nForce4 problem is one of the reasons I bought an ATI board (although now very happy with the A8R32-MVP board generally, see thread in the Motherboards subforum for more): as you might tell from my earlier post, I have a significant investment in Maxtor drives already.

This Seagate/A8R32-MVP problem is not so severe as the Maxtor/nForce4 problem as the drive is not unusable and data is not corrupted (I've done PAR2 data integrity checks), it just writes too slowly.

Note again my final comments: I would not like to assert positively that the Seagate drive is at fault without more testing by myself and others. It could be something extremely specific to my motherboard or my configuration. But now that I have raised the issue we can see if others replicate it... there must be plenty of people buying this motherboard/drive combination right now as both products have a good price/performance ratio.

You mentioned controllers, how do I identify which controller my 7200.10 has, other than by a physical examination of the underside of the drive? (Physical exam not possible for me without untying the elastic suspension which would be a real PITA, it already took me 3 patient hours to get five drives suspended just right).

Happy to try to help with other specific test requests so long as software based (and data safe).

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 Post subject: slightly off-topic = SATA issues
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 3:47 pm 
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inti, it's strange you're having issues with the Uli SATA and are OK with Sil.
Guys on one of the OC forums are having issues the otherway round.

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WHS: Antec LS-100, GA-MA74GM-S2H, LE-1250, 2x2Gb XMS DDR2, 7Tb
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Location: Barcelona
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
Man, why do they still keep making ULTRA ATA stuff, moreover, why is it always released before SATA?

Because I keep buying them :lol:

for external enclosures, SATA is still not standard (and I wish it was!)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 5:55 pm 
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mai9 wrote:
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
Man, why do they still keep making ULTRA ATA stuff, moreover, why is it always released before SATA?

Because I keep buying them :lol:

for external enclosures, SATA is still not standard (and I wish it was!)


How many external enclosures can you have? One, two at the most... :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:38 pm 
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I'm really thinking about getting the 320 GB SATA version. I've been looking to buy a 250-320 gig HDD for sometime and based on what I'm reading, the 7200.10 seems like it's what I'm looking for: quiet and big.

My mobo is an ECS 755-A2. The southbridge is the SiS 964. Is there anything I should be concerned about?

Am I taking a risk since these are new drives and it's possible there are things wrong with them that nobody knows about? I usually buy drives that have been out for awhile so the track record is well-documented.

Also, does anybody know where to get this besides newegg? I live in Southern California. I'm just wondering if there are any cheaper places.

Thanks for the advice.


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 Post subject: Re: slightly off-topic = SATA issues
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:52 am 
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Firetech wrote:
inti, it's strange you're having issues with the Uli SATA and are OK with Sil.
Guys on one of the OC forums are having issues the otherway round.

Those guys are having issues with WD Raptors; also they seem a little confused which SATA port they are using. I would guess they are probably using the ULi, it would seem very surprising to use the Sil port (the "fifth" SATA port) first out of choice because of its strange position forcing the SATA cable to be routed awkwardly past the CPU cooler, video card etc. Anyhow the SiI 3112 is an old controller chip which is found on many many motherboards and SATA controller cards, so if there were a problem with that chip and the Seagate 7200.10 then I think it would be more widely reported.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:52 am 
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fanerman91 wrote:
Goldmember, where did you hear that some 7200.10's are louder than others? Maybe it depends on what size. It seems like the 750 GB 7200.10 is loud. But that's the first account of the 320GB one I've seen. Are there others for the smaller sized 7200.10's?
Hello,

The 750GB 7200.10 reviews have varied with some reviewers saying it is very quiet whilst others have said the seeks are very loud. As for the 320GB 7200.10, Storage Review is where I read those user accounts.
Poster who sent his drive back to Komplett.
Poster who says no noise.
Poster who says seeks are very loud. Later describes them as a Geiger counter. :)
Poster who says seeks are loud, later says they have become quieter.
Poster who says his 500GB 7200.10 is quieter than his 7200.8.
Poster who was told the 320GB is quiet.

So what do the above links tell me? That I should stop surfing the Internet. :roll: I would prefer a slightly more scientific method with a decibel meter and such. Or at least date and place of manufacture: China, Singapore, or Thailand. Firmware code, Controller brand, SATA or PATA etc.

In the end, I guess I will just buy one and if it's too loud, sell it or give it to my nephew who is a gamer.

inti wrote:
would expect the 750GB to be a very loud drive - any four platter drive would be. But why are you surprised that my 320GB is quiet?

Read above links. Just because a drive has 2 platters and 4 heads does not mean it will be silent. It will, however, be quieter than a 3/6 or 4/8 drive in the same series. Since users like andyb have reported the 750GB 7200.10 to have incredibly loud seeks, it would be foolish to assume that other drives in the series would purr like a kitten.

inti wrote:
I'm not familiar with that tool, to be honest I would be extremely reluctant to try it on a non-Hitachi drive which contains 500GB of data unless it is guaranteed safe. I guess you are talking about switching on AAM?...

Yes, I just wanted to help you mute the seek noise of the DM11. However, I don't want to be responsible for someone losing 500gigs worth of data so forget I mentioned it. BTW, I've used it before on my DM9s with great success.

As for your ULi SB problem, 75% lower write speed in not acceptable IMO. You are correct in not rushing to judgement, as this could just apply to your setup unfortunately. Good luck with that.

inti wrote:
You mentioned controllers, how do I identify which controller my 7200.10 has, other than by a physical examination of the underside of the drive?

The eyeball method is the only one I know of. Maybe someone knows of a software utility that can safely determine the name or Seagate Support might be able to tell you from your SN number or other code.

fanerman91 wrote:
Also, does anybody know where to get this besides newegg? I live in Southern California. I'm just wondering if there are any cheaper places.

Just bookmark this link. Many places had it but have since sold out. Keep checking.

Sheesh, that's enough posting for one year. :) Me need coffee break. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:43 am 
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So after all this, is there actually a better alternative? I got the impression that the Samsung Spinpoints were the best but now people seem to hate them. :?

Is there any brand(s) we can agree make consistently quiet drives?

The only ones I've got are my old Seagate Barracuda IV's all of which are great, but will need changing very soon with my new build.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:53 am 
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No, no better altenatives unless you go with a notebook drive. 3.5" drives seem to have been getting noisier ever since the B-IV. I think my drive of choice would be a WD, since they have had the best implementation of AAM that I've seen recently. However, idle noise on the WD drives has tended to be dirtier and slightly louder than Seagates or Samsungs. If you can live with a slight increase in residual noise, I'd go WD and use AAM to hammer down the seek noise. If you can't, be prepared to shell out for a notebook drive.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Devonavar wrote:
...go WD and use AAM to hammer down the seek noise...


How much performance do the drives loose when using this, against the noise reductions? I'm getting an P180 case which seems to be good at keeping noise down as is, though I may softmount the drive (thats the thing with the wires, right?) if its too loud.

Seems daft to spend loads on a new system only to slow the HDD right down and form a massive bottle neck...

What's the performance on a laptop drive like? I could afford one, though its streching it a bit and I'd rather not. If its decent enough performance and very quiet might have to take the hit.

Oh and out of curiosity, just how loud are the new WD Raptor (10,000RPM) drives? I'm curious to know if anyones heard them?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:01 am 
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An update on the noise characteristics of my 7200.10 320GB.

Its seeks are quiet, I would say more quiet than the next quietest seeking drives in my system (Diamondmax10 300GB which is quieter than 7200.9 250GB, which in turn is quieter than 7200.8 200GB).

The idle noise of the 7200.10 is very quiet, quieter than the 7200.8 200GB which is my next quietest drive in terms of idle noise.

However, the 7200.10 does make a weird noise in two ways:
* on spin up, it makes a unique fairly loud 'squeak' like a mouse at one point in the spin-up cycle - other drives make more conventional whirring and chugging type noises when spinning up, this one I could almost believe it has a loudspeaker attached to it.
* when the drive is in intensive use (multi-GB write operation) there is a quiet, very high pitched squeal either from the motor or the electronics which varies slightly in pitch from time to time in a stepwise manner. This is not something I have heard from other drives I have used but it is not especially bothersome to me.

Obviously this is all subjective, also any of these noises could be specific to the way my drives are mounted and positioned in the case. The drives are suspended on thin elastic cord and the case doors are closed meaning that motor whine and high-pitched noises in general are likely to be more audible than other types of noise.

More generally I would comment having used many different drives (I own more than 20) and many different mounting methods in my PC that there is a wide difference in the amount by which different drives vibrate, even among drives of the same model and capacity from the same factory. Unless a drive is well mounted, its main noise characteristic will be the low-to-mid pitched rumble which results from vibration being transmitted to the structure of your PC case. Users who are not SPCR readers are likely to confuse vibration-induced noise with motor noise. For this reason I would not pay much attention to anecdotal noise reports from posters on other sites, or even from reviewers.

I regret I cannot compare the 7200.10 to any Samsung or Hitachi drives as I do not own those. Those are likely quieter drives than the 7200.10 320GB; likewise I am sure than most single-platter drives will be quieter, and of course 2.5" drives will be significantly quieter. But for me there is a trade-off between noise, storage capacity, speed and cost and the 7200.10 320GB meets all those requirements in a balanced way. My former preferred drive was the Diamondmax10 300GB so that tells you something about my requirements: the 7200.10 320GB is fractionally better than the Diamondmax10 on all of those counts apart from cost. Formatted capacity is 298GB by the way (I was hoping for 300!).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:37 am 
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JazzJackRabbit wrote:
mai9 wrote:
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
Man, why do they still keep making ULTRA ATA stuff, moreover, why is it always released before SATA?

Because I keep buying them :lol:

for external enclosures, SATA is still not standard (and I wish it was!)


How many external enclosures can you have? One, two at the most... :roll:


I have two :P (and many IDE drives to plug/unplug to the enclosure)


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:54 am 
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There are SATA enclosures available, Vantec Nextar for instance (also sold with other labels). You connect it with eSATA or USB, which gives you high performance together with your eSATA PC, but it will still work with other computers thanks to the USB interface.

I really wonder why I haven't seen a laptop with an eSATA connector yet, not even the most expensive ones have it. You get better performance, and the manufacturer won't have to use a controller chip for it like they have to do for Firewire (and most chipsets can handle at least 4 SATA connectors). I'm not saying that eSATA can replace Firewire in all situations, but the need for eSATA is more obvious for laptops than desktops. Most laptops can store 160 GB max, most desktops can have 4 x 750 GB... yeah, you get my point.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:44 am 
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What's the performance on a laptop drive like? I could afford one, though its streching it a bit and I'd rather not. If its decent enough performance and very quiet might have to take the hit.

Oh and out of curiosity, just how loud are the new WD Raptor (10,000RPM) drives? I'm curious to know if anyones heard them?


The best laptop drives are pretty close to ambient noise levels (~17dB). I'm not sure what I/O intensive applications are (games?), but if you need super-quick seeks 5400rpm seeks aren't the best (there are 7200rpm laptop drives, but they are even more expensive than 5400rpm).

As for the Raptors, search the forum, plenty of people have got them. Most people comment that the 74GB and 150Gb are very quiet at idle but have loud seeks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:30 am 
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http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=32226

:evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:27 am 
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I just got a 7200.10 320gb sata2 today.

To me it is NO GOOD.. now i do have a slight hearing impairment where some high frequencies irritate one of my ears .. i have 7200.7 and 7200.8 sata1 drives which do not exhibit such problems. I also managed to note it is louder than either one of these drives (btw all drives are mounted with elastic suspension)

Needless to say its going back and im getting another MAXTOR which have been serving me well as of late :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:51 am 
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Where did you get it from, was it by mail and are you not going to try another in case it's just a faulty drive?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:48 am 
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This morning I fitted a 250GB 7200.10 SATA into someones PC, over the last week I have played with it a little, and benchmarked it.

It is MUCH quieter than the 750GB model, the seeks are a lot quieter, the idle noise is much lower, the vibration is a little better, but not superb, but it is OK. However the seeks make the case rattle (yes it is hard mounted), this is defenitly going to need suspension if the end user requires silence.

It is very quick, a little slower than the 750GB version. The benchmark exhibited the same kind of results. I think that its doubling the performance for some reason.!!!!

I wouldnt have one as a boot drive, as its seeks are too loud for me, but otherwise its a good drive and when I bought it, it was a little cheaper that the 7,8, and 9 :)


Andy

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