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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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The article on making a quiet northwood machine was very interesting. <BR> <BR>I have a question though; the article doesn't mention any alternative heat sinks besides the Intel. Have you tried using any other heat sinks? <BR>I guess i should just wait for that promised roundup of heatsinks ...<IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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That roundup may not include P4 HSF. No one has sent any to test. <br> <br>The 2nd P4-1.6A mentioned in the article had a smaller HS & slightly larger fan, if you recall. This smaller HS is now in a system oc'd to 2.25G with the same cooling setup in a different motherboard (i845D). Temp monitoring works nicely on this one, and I have no issue with temperature at all. MBM5 shows idle temp arund 40-42C in a room of 20-22C. Full bore, the temp has reached 57-58C, but these are reading core temps, so it is perfectly safe. <br> <br>To be honest, there doesn't seem much point to spending more money on better HSF for the P4 unless you're stuck on real low temps or overclocking to the limits, which is of limited interest to us. The stock HSF is free, so to speak, as the OEM P4s seem unavailable anywhere, and I've been told they're about the same price. This is pretty much the conclusion reached by Dan's Data, who HAS reviewed lots of P4 coolers. The P4 (especially NW core), generally, does not seem that tough a beast to cool. Of course, I have not tried one running at 2.4G or oc'd to 3GHz.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Well, I was worried more about your "whinier & noisier than my reference quiet fan" comment rather than any cooling problems the intel might have, but if it's quiet enough for you i guess it'll be quiet enough for me too <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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I don't use the stock fan -- it's a Panaflo at 5V suspended over the HS.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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oops - i missed that . sorry...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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So I went and read over what you did to suspend a fan over your cpu, and i'm scared <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> <br> <br>I'm geting a 2.26ghz.. Do you think I should use the stock fan or get an alpha 8942 and a papst or panaflo to go with it? The stock fan should be much noisier, right?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Well, the stock HSF is included with the CPU, so you might as well try it first. There's nothing too scary about what I did to secure the stock HS without the fan. That wooden piece is basically a spacer. You'll see when you have the HSF in your hands. <br> <br>For aftermarket HS, I would take a very serious look at the Zalman 6500B series for socket 478. It has a great mounting setup, and the mass / cooling surface area is unbeatable. It also works really well. Fan's a little noisier than I'd like, but it's an easy swap with their fan bracket. Yup, got a couple P4 HSF to review, finally. Don't want to give too much away before the review, tho. <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> <br> <br>The P4 system I wrote about is no longer in my hands. I am running a second P4-1.6A based system with a mobo that monitors the CPU temp diode properly. Been too lazy to swap out the fan, just using the stock fan at 5V. Temps get up to 60C max (after prolonged heavy duty use) but normally stays around 40-45C. (room temp is typically 20-25C). There is a very slight whine, but certainly livable. With a suspended Panaflo at 5V, I am sure the CPU would run cooler -- the 80mm fan moves more air. <br> <br>This system has a reduced speed fan in the PSU, of course -- Panaflo @ 5V. I swapped the thermistor in this PSU with a 100K potentiometer (see the last page of the Enermax PSU quieting article for details), and normally it is set to min. Increasing the pot for full voltage drops the CPU temp 5C, so there's no question the PSU fan plays an important role in case/cpu cooling. But I am not worried about the P4 temp with the fans at 5V. If you check out the article at Tom's Hardware where they pulled the HS off while the system was powered (a CPU self-protection test), you'll see that the P4 survived unscathed. It is very thoroughly protected from accidental overheating damage.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Conrory wrote: <br><!-- BBCode Start --><I>can you give me more advice on this p4 heatsink stuff? <br>do you think the zalman 6500b will be better than the alpha + papst/vantec? <br>I guess I would get a papst, panaflo, or vantec to put on it. <br> <br>I'm concerned about the "Due to it's size and weight - one should take special care when moving any case in which this cooler is installed!" warnings i see about the zalman. <br>esp. since every time i've changed heatsinks on a computer before, it's been a bit of a pain. <br> <br>I wish i knew which fan i would need to be sure it's enough to cool the 2.26 <br> <br>hmm.. looking at your article again, it seems that i could replace the stock heatsink with the alpha heatsink and still use your overhead cooling system. wouldn't that give better cooling performance? And did you consider mounting a 92mm fan instead of an 80mm fan over the heat sink?</I><!-- BBCode End --> <br> <br>If you examine the mounting system on the Zalman 6500B, you'll see that it is extremely simple, ingenious & foolproof. <!-- BBCode Start --><A HREF="http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/swimages/0201/6500b.swf" TARGET="_blank">Zalman installation animation</A><!-- BBCode End --> I would not worry about moving it around unless you're shipping. Taking this HS on/off is a cinch. <br> <br>The Alpha 8942 mounting requires complete removal of motherboard & stock HS mounting frame, then installation of 4 mounting bolts. This, believe me, is a pain -- I have a swiftech MC462A that requires similar. <br> <br>The close coupling between the fan + HS in most HSF means a lot more noise than the fan alone due to turbulence. With the Zalman over-the-HS fan setup (or my adaptation), much of this noise is reduced. <br> <br>If you look at the specs, the Alpha looks like it cools slightly better but is a bit noisier. i think- a lot noiser because of the close-coupling fan turbulence. With the Zalman, you get a quieter, similarly performing HS but also the Fanmate speed control, the fan bracket & super ease of mounting. <br> <br>Choice is yours.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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I actually had a question about your your adaptation. <br> <br>You remove the stock fan, hold the hs in place with some wood, and suspend an 80" fan over it... <br> <br>Have you thought about what effect a modification such as using a fanless alpha instead of the stock hs or suspending a 92" fan would have? <br> <br>Conroy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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There's way too much heat generated by a P4 for it to run fanless with any known HS. <br> <br>The Alpha, as I said, seems like a fine HS. Just that it is a pain to install. I have long used a swiftech MC462A in the same way -- suspended fan. And good as the Alpha is, IMO, the Zalman 6500 is better for the same price -- for easy, quiet effective cooling. <br> <br>The quietest fans I've tried are 80mm. <br> <br>
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I don't think Zalman 6500 is that much better than Alpha 8942. Specwise, Alpha seems to be slightly or somewhat better. Quietness depends on how you use it. You can suspend a fan over Alpha in the same manner as you do for Zalman. Or you can duct Alpha or Zalman to your case fan. Some people may think it troublesome to install Alpha 8942, but, for others, that's not a big problem. I, for one, find it far less troublesome than to cut out fan grilles of a case using a dremel or whatever powered tool. So it depends on how you feel about the mounting method of Alpha. To some, Zalman may be better, but for others, Alpha may be better. <br> <br>Now, with regard to Alpha 8942, since it performs better when air is taken out of it rather than blown onto it, the best way to use it quietly is to duct it to a case fan. If you choose right material for a duct, this method has additional advantage of insulating case fan noise to some extent. (I'm not using Alpha at this moment, but I am ducting my HS to a 5-volted case fan.) <br> <br>In addition to Alpha 8942, Zalman 6500, and MCX478, I'd like to add Thermalright AX-478 to the list. AX-478 is as easy to install as Zalman and performs as well as Alpha 8942. <br> <br> <br> <br> <br>
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Never said the Zalman was categorically better, just that it is simpler to install and comes with many goodies that make it convenient to run silently. In fact, I did say <br> <br><!-- BBCode Start --><I>the Alpha looks like it cools slightly better. </I><!-- BBCode End --> <br> <br>The "reverse" direction of airflow for the Alpha normally requires close coupling between HS & fan -- causing unavoidable turbulence noise. <br> <br>A duct *seems* easy to damp, but it is not. Any tube is with open ends is a Helmholtz resonator; the air blowing through it excites lower frequency resonances in the tube. Plus if you have the fan on the case side (rather than on top of the HS to avoid turbulence noise) then its positioning makes it more audible from the outside of the case. <br> <br>If you're going to duct, no reason why you couldn't duct the Zalman fan either, giving the CPU the benefit of cooler outside air.
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Very interesting ... I never heard of the Alpha 8942 until today. I've used Zalman products in the past for my AMD systems and thought they were reasonably quiet ... this time around I have a P4 1.6A overclocked to 2.1 so am looking for a new quiet cooling solution. I'm going to do a bit more research but my first look at the Alpha, I think it's a nice looking cooler. No fan bracket <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> <br> <br>I'd be interested in hearing more about VGA coolers since I have a Radeon 8500 that I've been brainstorming ways to make silent.
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I have a Radeon 7500 and use zalmans vga cooler without any problems. <br> <br><!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnpsvga2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnpsvga2.htm</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end --> <br> <br>This is a good P4 heatsink comparison site. <br> <br><!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp_p5.htm" target="_blank">http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp_p5.htm</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end --> <br> <br>You might want to use a swiftech or thermaltake cooler with a modded quiet fan. <br> <br>
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>>I have a Radeon 7500 and use zalmans vga cooler without any problems. <br>>> <br>>>http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnpsvga2.htm <br>>> <br>>>This is a good P4 heatsink comparison site. <br>>> <br>>>http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp_p5.htm <br>>> <br>>>You might want to use a swiftech or thermaltake cooler with a modded quiet fan. <br>>> <br>>> <br> <br> <br>Thanks for the info. I was always unsure whether a zalman vga cooler would fit okay on a Radeon ... but I guess once I install it, it would void my warranty. Was it hard to install? I think if I go this route ... I'd replace the epoxy with arctic alumina epoxy. <br> <br>I actually was about to buy the Zalman 6500A cooler, but the sales guy didn't recommend it since my P4 was overclocked, so he changed my mind at the last second. <br> <br>
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I forgot to ask, did you use a fan to cool the Zalman VGA cooler? I hear it's recommended on Radeons and Geforce cards. <br> <br>Thanks <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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A simple way to quiet and cool the video card is to remove the small noisy fan, then mount a 80mm quiet fan Zalman style over it like I did in the quiet P4 article. Position the fan so that half the airflow goes over the front, half over the back. This way the GPU gets the largest amount of cooling airflow. <br> <br>I've only done this with cooler running video cards, not the latest generation of megabuck supernoisy gamer fans. 5V from a Panaflo 80mm L is enough to keep my Matrox G400 Max cool and stable. It's usually inaudible with the case closed. <br> <br>You'd probably have to go with more voltage for a hotter GPU, but there's perhaps the same technique would work with 7-8 volts. It would still be a whole lot cooler than 99% of the stock video card cooling fans, which are 40-50mm whiners. Another thing that helps is to ensure at least two PCI slots below the video card are free. For better airflow.
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At first I bought one of those PCI slot colling fans and ran it at 5v. It was very quiet and positioned perfectly sucking air right in front of the heatsink moving a good amount of air. I then noticed that without the fan the video card heatsink barely got warm and removed it. The heatsink is big with a heavy copper base mind you. Zalman only recommends a fan with a 256mb card so you should be fine without a fan. I've seen pictures of your card and the layout is almost the same as mine, I don't see anything getting in the way of the sink so it will install fine. <br> <br>Here's an install guide, it was very easy to install: <br> <br><!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.quietpcusa.com/vgainstall.html" target="_blank">http://www.quietpcusa.com/vgainstall.html</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end --> <br> <br>Shane <br> <br>
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32 pm 
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Well, I got the zalman 6500b to use with my new p4/2.26 - it was really easy to set up and seems to work well, although the weather has been pretty cool here. <br> <br>the edge of the flower is over the RDRAM on my asus p4t533-c, and is pretty close to the RAM, but I guess that's ok? The ram gets pretty hot though, but apparently that's normal for RDRAM. <br>I also can't access a fan header that's underneath the flower. <br> <br>The fanmate is cool too <IMG SRC="modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> <br> <br>(I'm less impressed with the loudly humming vantec stealth fan, but that's a story for another thread.. i'll post something when i do some better comparisons) <br>

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