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 Post subject: Zalman Flower to SLK800.... not quite what i expected
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:44 am
Posts: 122
Hi,

Well after a week or so i've finally "upgraded" from flower cooler to SLK800.. needless to say its not quite gone to plan totally...

Athlon XP 2100+ [palamino ( i think )]

i) Temperatures before on Zalman... with default fan

idle: 45
stressed: 56- 57

Temperature on Zalman with 80mm panaflo

idle: 52
stressed: 72

ii) Temperature with SLK800 and panaflo

idle: 57-58
stressed: 62



So idle temperature performance is atrocious... also since fitting the new sink i've had some computing problems... i tested before with CPU Burn... this now hangs after 3 seconds or so... totally blacks out.. and resets... i downloaded prime95... and this now claims to get errors when doing a test... I had a struggle fitting the SLK800 (no instructions) ... I brought Artic Silver 3... cleaned with acetone, and then using a screen wipe (alcohol based).. both the CPU and heatsink... i applied silver3 carefully and had a nice fairly thing layer.... but in struggling to fit it I think this smudged a little bit.... I don't know if the screwdriver slipped whilst it installed.. it did a few times but I don't think i ever touched the board... i figure that faults with this would completely break it working... I just don't want to do now...

I am probably going to take the sink off and put it back on again.. rearranging the artic silver thats on there.... what can I have done wrong..??!?

The stability thing is really worrying but the temperature thing too is dissapointing.. i have my case open and exposed...

On the SLK800 post Rusty075 says

"I've got an SLK-800 attached to an XP2400+ ( )

At full load with an 80mm Panaflo L1A it runs at 49C."

What the hell?!??! something is clearly wrong with this picture... I have the panaflo... blowing down into the heatsink... mounted on the heatsink... I have the heatsink firmly attached onto the CPU.. took a lot of applying... what is giving the lackluster performance... thermal failure doesn't occur and i guess I am semi happy that the stressed temperature is reasonable...

Help would be appreciated.... I followed artic3 instructions to the letter...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 1:45 pm
Posts: 149
this kinda makes my cancelling slk-800 order comfortable.

what is the surface area of slk-800? which has more? cnps-6000cu has about 2500cm^2 surface area.

try using the zalman fan on BOTH system (i mean mounted on the zalman mount). that should give us more accurate comparison between the two.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:22 pm 
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Posts: 122
I was going to and will try with the zalman bracket...

I have just took it off and put it back on... I realise now I had it the wrong way round.. there is a lip to rest on the white socket edge (which has the CPU lever going into it) .. oriented the proper way round... with the heatsink recleaned.. not the CPU tho... and I've got it running again...

I am more happy cause I think the processor woes are gone... Prime95 completed for a good 10 mins (it died within seconds before) .. but the heat readings are very similar... maybe 1 degree less under stress... perhaps I've not got the lip of the heatsink seated correctly so some of the normal surface is resting on the edge of the socket raising the rest of the heatsink slightly.. I will have another go at resetting, tommorow or at the weekend... god its annoying...

I am wondering whether the acetone i am using isn't helping.. or the alcohol based screen wipes that I finished off the CPU with.. but surely these would only affect the temp as much as the thermal paste does?!? different pastes differ by 3 degrees... so if I am out by 10-15 degrees it surely can't be responsible...

The guy that goes his 2400+ running at 49 stressed... sure he could have a thoroughbred core but surely the extra speed would nearly offset any heat advances relative to my 2100+ ... Something must still be awry surely...

I am not completely dismissing the SLK-800... I can run silently with it under stress at 62 degrees.. not ideal but not too bad (or is that really awful??) its a whole 10-15 degrees less than my flower cooler stressed... (tho that wasn't tested with CPUBURN.. dunno if this still crashes.. if not i'll cook it with that and see...)

I wouldn't cancel any SLK-800 orders on this just yet... not till I am sure its cleaned and fitted properly...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I own both a Zalman 6000Cu as well as a SLK-800. The Zalman is attached to an XP1900+ in my desk PC, and the SLK to an XP2400+ in a normal Antec case. I have trouble explaining the performance of the slk-800 as well. The differences between the 2 systems are too many to make a real comparison possible, but I'm surprised by the low temps from the SLK.

Even after 72 hours of running at 100% load the temps are stable at 49C CPU, and 34C case. This machine is part of my render farm that is rendering a 3D animation.


I'd also like to weigh in on the SLK's mounting system. Alot of people have commented on its superiority to units like the Zalman, that only use 1 lug. But I hate the SLK's, it's awful.

I've never had a more stressful heatsink mounting episode than when I attached that thing.
It requires entirely too much force to mount safely to a installed motherboard, yet is too large to mount to an uninstalled motherboard and still be able to shoehorn it into some cases. They need to steal the attachment tool that Zalman uses, it's far superior to using a screwdriver.

I'd trade a couple of degrees of increased temps in exchange for not having to possibility of a slipping screwdriver destroying my motherboard.

In a perfect world all heatsinks would mount like the Swiftechs. For heatsinks as large as they are with modern processors, through board mounting is the only way to go.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:28 am
Posts: 7
Location: Canada
Jimbob,

You might be running into a problem with the paste. I once installed a heatsink with a fairly thick layer of paste and I had an episode kinda like yours. You may want to try a thin layer on the cpu die and a very thin layer (in the appropiate spot) on the heatsink. Install it immediately after the paste is applied. I usually do this and I have seen a significant reduction in temps.

Also this is probably a dumb question, but what case/power supply/case cooling are you running? Also are you using the Zalman mounting system or is the fan mounted to the heatsink?

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Andy :D

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Athlon 1700
SLK800 + 80mm Antec Fan
Zalman ZM-NB32J
Ti4400 Wd 100g Raid EPOX 8K3A+
Digidoc 5 + 4Papst 8412ngl
Truepower 430


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:02 pm 
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Posts: 333
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Rusty075 wrote:
I'd also like to weigh in on the SLK's mounting system. Alot of people have commented on its superiority to units like the Zalman, that only use 1 lug. But I hate the SLK's, it's awful.

- I have to agree with you rusty on the thermalright's heatsink mounting system.... on the AX-7 It's just WAAY too easy for the screwdriver to slip out and mash a trace on your mobo into powder....

- Lucky my traces under my socket are all solid on the top layer :D

- One tip I can give u guys though is to stick a little piece of corrugated cardboard right under the socket area.... big enuff to protect the traces but not too big to foul round with your clip, this have saved my board a few times already (irony is that the cardboard bit that I used and gave me this idea came out of the box the AX-7 came in) :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
re - the thermalright clip. I had no troubles whatsoever with the SLK800 (more with the bigger circumference AX7) but I have the advantage of working on the system completely in the open, not in a case. Also, I think a good trick is to have a screwdriver with the correct size blade, one that fits perfectly: I have half a dozen & choose one that fits just so. My personal take on the Zalman tool is that it is not easy to apply any force laterally, which is sometimes needed.

jimbobUK, your slk800 install still doesn't sound quite right. You might check the arctic silver site for their explanation of how to use their product. I know not all TIMs are the same, but the principles are the same, and AS do explain it very thoroughly. Check that the 6 lugs on the CPU socket are all engaged properly; sometimes even with 3 hooks per side, it is possible to engage only the edges of the lugs. Finally, if the mobo is already in the system, at least move the PSU out of the way so you can see better what you are doing.

What is your room temp btw?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:54 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
One more thing as well, have u applied the pads that come with the SLK-800? they come with 8 pads and u only need to use four.... they're used for sitting the SLK-800 flat on the core because the base is not wide enuff for using the pads on the Althons.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:43 pm 
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Posts: 25
Location: Seattle, USA
Having mounted and unmounted the SLKs several times in a dually box, I found that there's a trick to it. Once you know the trick, it's dead simple.

First, make sure you have an appropriate screwdriver. The one I use is 3/16 inch (4.5 mm) wide. This is much smaller than what I've had to use for other HSF installs.

Second, when attaching the bracket, use your free hand (the one not holding the screwdriver) to apply slight downward pressure on the heatsink itself. This stabilizes the HS and enables the screwdriver to work on the bracket only.

If you don't do this, the heatsink tends to wobble around as you apply pressure to the bracket, the back end of the bracket comes unhooked, and the screwdriver is sure to slip.

Probably makes no sense at all, but it works for me. YMMV.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:34 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
stsmytherie wrote:
First, make sure you have an appropriate screwdriver. The one I use is 3/16 inch (4.5 mm) wide. This is much smaller than what I've had to use for other HSF installs.

Second, when attaching the bracket, use your free hand (the one not holding the screwdriver) to apply slight downward pressure on the heatsink itself. This stabilizes the HS and enables the screwdriver to work on the bracket only.

If you don't do this, the heatsink tends to wobble around as you apply pressure to the bracket, the back end of the bracket comes unhooked, and the screwdriver is sure to slip.


I found this too as well with my AX-7 the sink tends to slip and slide round my base a bit too much for comfort unless I have one hand holding it straight.... I give my thanks to the person who invented shims :)
Also I found with the AX-7 it's quicker if u sit the sink down 1st and then fix the first half of the clipping mechanism down... so u're not relying on the travel of clip which is SK-7 steel as much

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 Post subject: This is more like it!!!! :)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:01 pm 
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Posts: 122
Ok.. I'm finally getting somewhere.. thanks for help folks...

My problem with mounting this sucker was the lack of instructions, plus the first time I installed it having no clue, i put it on backwards... i assume this didn't help too much...

Luckily enough I have a screwdriver that fits the hole on the heatsink clip and i'm now getting somewhere with it.. pressing down on the normal clip (not inside the hole) is when i was most at risk.. *whince*

Anyways I've found that levering back onto the fins after pressing down is a sure fire way to push the 3 clips away from the sink so that they are able to get past the motherboard lugs.. easing the lever motion whilst keeping the force applied down lets them sit in far easier...

Anyways ... i think i'm getting closer to the desired results... currently i've got roughly

Idle: 50-51
Stressed: 59-61

Whilst I'm still no where near 49 degrees stressed.. I am happier... and the trick.... USE the sticky pads on the CPU that shipped with the cooler..... I am quite a bit frustrated on this point as I originally didn't use them after reading the statement on the review of the SLK800 on here..

"Four pads much like those on the corners of AMD processors are included in case you fear core chipping (by wobbling the HS on the chip during mounting). They were not used; as already mentioned above, no trouble of any kind was encountered during installation. The small size of the base and the nicely designed clip makes this HS very easy to install."

Well here is my trouble... I just had a look tonight to see if I still wasn't sitting on the heatsink (resting on the edge perhaps.) I couldn't push it further away in that direction at all.. no give on the clips... but whilst doing this I did notice I could twist the heatsink slightly... what the hell!!!!

ANyways after peoples comments on here I decided to finally go for the pads... the review suggested that this may offer some thermal reduction properties... why else would you NOT put them on... This is my 3rd install.. I wiped off excess Artic Silver off the bottom of the heatsink.. which has been marked each time I have attached the CPU before... including picking up off the core, some text.. AMD etc... not nice.. and annoying as its not coming off.. think it may be scratched slightly... I didn't reapply Artic onto the CPU so it has very little covering it at all...

Now that I have the pads it feels far more secure on the CPU.. only used 4... could use more i guess... I just don't know how i could improve the mounting anymore

Its all in and I'm getting more reasonable results... still a little high... I may have a look again at the weekend.. but I am getting sick of it...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:16 pm 
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Posts: 122
re room temp:

I dunno.. but lets just say i'm in england as it approaches winter... i have my window open a lot... its nicely chilled.. just right.. 20 degrees say... motherboard temperature is 28 degrees at the moment.. case is open...

Its firmly mounted now, and its peak temperature is the same as before.. up to 62 now after at least 20mins of prime95.. I mounted initially out of the case but to be honest its not too difficult inside the case now... especially now I know what I'm doing... :)

I followed Artic Silver to the letter.. the only thing I did was use the screen wipes after the acetone.. it said to use some alcohol thing, which I think may be part of what is in screen wipes... could i just use acetone??? I had a thin even layer on the CPU... blob on the heatsink which is then rubbed off with a towel.. and rubbed in (leaving some in the little valleys as it says)

As i said earlier I now have very little thermal compound left.. but i still think there was some.. artic silver talk about only a feint layer needed on modern CPUs.. its tending towards that now.. but can thermal paste or none at all really make such a big difference...

How is the heat output of a palamino 2100+ compared to the 2400+ thoroughbred (if it is a thorougbred that ricky has) .. is it enough to equate to 10 degrees?

I have the fan mounted directly.. I have an open case.. using QuitePC's 300watt powersupply... no other fans but the case is open.... i already said how high the motherboard temp was, it is still at 28 degrees .. quite low I assume??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:52 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Palomino 2100 - 72W
2400+ thoroughbred (they all are at this speed) - 65.3W-68W depending on version.

That 4-7W could make the difference in temps. You could try undervolting by 0.1V or maybe 0.15V. If the system stays stable, you'll be laughing; your temps will drop maybe 3-5C.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 1:07 pm 
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Posts: 122
Hmm... well I looked in my bios.. don't think undervolting is possible (Asus AV7333 or something like that) .. its set to auto at the moment.. but i have tried changing that to the lowest one available ... I thought it was 1.5 .. looking at the Asus monitor my vcore is currently 1.792

I would appreciate it if Rusty could test his CPU temp using Prime95 or CPUBurn... I left Prime95 last night and was shocked to find after a while it was up to 68 degrees... god knows how high it would have gone with the flower cooler.... so frustrating tho... I dunno.. I may email thermaltake.. see if they have any advice, results with a similar chip... i wonder if my palamino is faulty but it is spinning :)

My CPU performance at the moment is not much better than the flower cooler :( :( :(

I have a case temp/motherboard temp 5 degrees lower than Rusty.. but 20 degrees hotter CPU :(

I have a headache tonight and can't be doing with fiddling with it anymore tonight...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:26 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
jimbo,

Don't try changing to the lowest setting, just take it down one voltage notch at a time. You'll gradually find the point at which it'll run stably, but with the lowest voltage.

My XP1900 will go down to about 1.625V, from 1.75


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