It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:19 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Silver plating
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: White Rock, BC
What do you guys think of electroplating a Zalman 6000cu (or any HS for that matter) silver? Will the silver layer aid in cooling or does the material need to be silver all the way through?

I wonder if someone has already tried it and found silver plating to be useless?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:04 am
Posts: 331
Location: Belgium
Because it's only plating I doubt it'll have much use. Because the heat still has to go from the Cu to the Ag. I actually think this could decrease the thermoconductivity. Feel free to try though and keep us posted *G*.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:41 am 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Probably the biggest benefit from plating the HS will be that the silver will prevent the copper from oxidizing. Even the oxide layer is only a few microns thick it has less than 5% the thermal conductivity of the copper. Plating the base of the HS, the part that contacts the core, would give the best return on the investment.

But here's a better idea! Instead of plating the heatsink in silver, have one cast in silver! :lol: Solid silver would be a much better conductor.

Let's see: Given that the Zalman 6000Cu weighs 462grams when made from copper, and that Cu has a density of 8230kg/m^3, that means you need 56cm^3 of material to cast the HS. 56cm^3 of silver works out to be 587grams, or about 20 ounces.

Casting silver is going for about $7.25 US per ounce.

So that means that your new Zalman 6000Ag will cost you $145 just for the materials. Ouch

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2002 9:04 am
Posts: 331
Location: Belgium
Let's see .. 145bucks for 105% performance compared to 40 for 100% performance .. well I know what to pick!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:07 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11789
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
silver will prevent the copper from oxidizing
:!:
Russ, you must not have watched the old movies or read the books in which servants are forever polishing the silver! The silver will actually oxidize faster than copper, AFAIK.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:28 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
MikeC wrote:
Quote:
silver will prevent the copper from oxidizing
:!:
Russ, you must not have watched the old movies or read the books in which servants are forever polishing the silver! The silver will actually oxidize faster than copper, AFAIK.



On a technical level I stand behind my original post. The silver will stop the copper from oxidizing. I didn't say anything about the silver oxiding!!!

Actually I confused silver with gold. (when you're too poor to have either its easy to do that)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:39 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11789
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
The silver will stop the copper from oxidizing. I didn't say anything about the silver oxiding!!!
:lol: Good defense!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:09 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 12:17 am
Posts: 51
Location: Pasadena, CA, USA
MikeC wrote:
Russ, you must not have watched the old movies or read the books in which servants are forever polishing the silver! The silver will actually oxidize faster than copper, AFAIK.


Crap. Does this mean I have to polish all the little silver bits in the Arctic Silver stuff from time to time? :shock:

:wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:13 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 737
Location: swindon- england :/
lol :D
there used tobe a gold zalman, performed the best compared to the others (same design, just no plating)
also akasa did sliver plating
sliver mountain

_________________
hardware Killer and teddy giver. P.I.N.G.U.: Positronic Intelligent Nocturnal Gratification Unit
main rig:q6600, 4 gig ddr2, 3870, x fi, modded akasa psu, 4+hd's
leechbox, p3 something, 80gig hd, soundproofed case


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: White Rock, BC
Silver plating not a good idea, gotcha.

Making heatsink hewn from pure (well, .925 sterling) silver is actually a possibility, as I have relatives in Thailand who own a silver jewellery foundry. I visited them a few years ago and they were custom casting all sorts of stuff. I must look into it.
I'll also ask if the tarishing would be a major problem.

Um, is silver heavier than copper? Aluminium?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:59 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Mike Sae wrote:
Um, is silver heavier than copper? Aluminium?


Alot heavier: Silver is 10490 kg/m3, copper by comparison is 8230 kg/m3, and Aluminum is only 2700 kg/m3. Gold is even heavier yet, 19300 kg/m3 .

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:45 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Rusty075 wrote:
Mike Sae wrote:
Um, is silver heavier than copper? Aluminium?


Alot heavier: Silver is 10490 kg/m3, copper by comparison is 8230 kg/m3, and Aluminum is only 2700 kg/m3. Gold is even heavier yet, 19300 kg/m3 .


Silver has better thermal conductivity than gold, but gold does not oxidize easily. Copper actually conducts heat better than gold.

Now diamond has very good thermal conductivty and resistance to oxidation but is even more expensive than gold. (Is $5 million too much to spend on a heatsink? :roll: ) Moissanite might make a good heat sink at 1/10th to 1/20th the cost of a diamond (at 1 ct.) but that is still pretty expensive.

_________________
-Rich


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:41 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11789
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
I now have 12 computers in my apartment. Is that too much?
Been meaning to answer for a while: YES that is too much. Too many too! What the heck do you use all those computers for? They're not like substitutes for like... cats, are they?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:35 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Instead of the crazy cat lady I'm becoming the crazy computer geek!

But seriously, besides the few "experiemental" boxes, (Like the turbine-oil cooled K6-2 350 cd'd to 600) they are a 3D rendering farm. Here's a link to a video that "they made for a school project that my roommate and I did a few months ago. Savannah Revitalization Animation

Warning: the animation is a big file, if you have a modem you're in trouble. And the animation is of an architecture project, so its not that exciting to most normal people.

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:39 pm
Posts: 27
Location: White Rock, BC
Doesn't sound promising. I don't suppose the superior thermal characteristics of silver would allow for a smaller, hence lighter, HS?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:10 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11789
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Nobody has made an all-silver or gold HS yet for obvious reaons. The most commercially successful use of silver for a HS was the Silverado by noisecontrol.de, which had a bottom silver "slug" about the size of a US silver dollar. The rest of the HS was alumin. Worked well for its time.

Keep in mind that the material is only a part of the picture -- there's design & execution, including the mounting system. Flaws in any of those can nullify strengths elsewhere... the old weakest link rule.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:18 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11789
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Rusty075 wrote:
they are a 3D rendering farm. Here's a link to a video that "they made for a school project that my roommate and I did a few months ago. Savannah Revitalization Animation

Warning: the animation is a big file, if you have a modem you're in trouble. And the animation is of an architecture project, so its not that exciting to most normal people.

Everyone already knows I am not normal, so it's ok if I say that is pretty damn cool! How long did that take you to build -- and how long did it take for your pig farm -- oh i mean render farm to render?

BtW, for those with dialup -- it IS 46mb.


Last edited by MikeC on Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:52 pm
Posts: 2057
Location: United States, Mobile, AL
dont they have types of ceramics that dissipate heat well?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 10:08 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Smaller perhaps, but given the density of silver probably not much lighter. And definetly not cheaper. :)

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:35 am 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
The "farm" has been growing gradually over the past year. It's mostly made from old parts left over from upgrades. That animation took 10 machines 12 days to produce. The modeling was done in AutoCAD and probably took a couple of weeks all told to put together. It was rendered in Bryce5.

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:39 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:05 pm
Posts: 228
Location: Powell River, BC, Canada
Silver... Gold... Diamond... There is also a graphite foam material that cost way too much, and has amazing heat conductivity, and is designed for this kind of application. Bhaa! I want isothermal heatpipe spreaders. Should be cheap and very high performance when they arrive on the mass/available market.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:45 pm 
Offline
SPCR Reviewer

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 3998
Location: Phoenix, AZ
crisspy wrote:
Bhaa! I want isothermal heatpipe spreaders


To heck with heat spreaders or sinks altogether. All they really do is move the heat from one place to another anyway.

What I'm waiting for is Thermocouples. Convert the heat into electricity and use it to help run the system! I've seen articles on the development of thrermocouples small enough to be inside the core itself, reducing or eliminating the need for a heatsink at all.

_________________
Senior Contributing Writer, SPCR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:47 am
Posts: 218
For conveniance :roll: Zalman sell a ready gold-plated copper heatsink, capable of silently cooling a Palomino upto 2100+, way better than just copper which only manages erm... 2100+

_________________
jh


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:52 pm
Posts: 2057
Location: United States, Mobile, AL
i want a big gold brick, like that keep at fort knox. add some fins and your set.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group