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 Post subject: Easy Way to Silence my PIII 1GHz?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:29 am 
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Well, I recently swapped out the original Antec PSU from my case with the Seasonic SS300, and the decrease in noise has been wonderful. But the problem now is that the whine of the HSF on my PIII 1GHz is driving me nuts.

Is it possible for me to just remove the fan, keep the stock heatsink, and mount an 80mm fan using the Zalman FB123 fan bracket? I have an extra NMB fan from SVC lying around. Will this be safe and adequate cooling? Or would I need a bigger/stronger fan?

I don't really want to go through the trouble and cost of getting a whole new HSF assembly for this old machine.

Currently, with the stock HSF, my CPU idles between 32C ~ 36C, depending on ambient temperature. Under load, the highest I've seen it go is 45C. However, I'll be converting this into a home server soon, so the computer won't be taxed much other than transferring files.

Thanks for any advice,
Peter


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:31 am 
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Oh, I should also mention that this is the pre-Tualitan version of the chip, in case heat dissipation is different.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:10 pm 
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Just go ahead and try it. Even if you have to run the NMB at 12V, it's still going to be a LOT quieter than the orig fan. As long as the distance between fan and HS is not more than ~ 1" you should be OK. If you don't already have that Zalman bracket, just devise one from a PCI slot cover -- see the photos in the P4-1.6 silencing article -- under systems.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:30 pm 
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Well, I decided to order the fan bracket and see how that works.

I'm just concerned about the processor overheating. However, if I recall correctly, the P3 has built-in thermal protection where if the processor gets too hot, it'll shut itself down before burning out, correct?

And what's considered a safe idle operating temperature for a P3 1GHz? Just want to make sure I don't push it too far.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:42 pm 
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http://users.erols.com/chare/elec.htm says 70-75C depending on which flavor of CPU you have. Can't recall about P3 throttling... maybe. I'd use ~60C as the upper limit. That gives you lots of leeway (assuming your mobo reads the internal CPU temp diode).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:57 pm 
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Sorry, but may I grab this opportunity to promote our folding team. Please donote your free p3 cpu cycles for the good cause (and you may help cure cancer too!).
:mrgreen:


And a little bit more on-topic..
Before I upgraded to a barton (see below) I was using a tualation-celeron heavily overclocked to 133 mhz fsb (turning it into a p3-1466). So it was running quite hot, even though it's a tualatin. I had a SLK-800 on it with a papst nlg fan (12 db @ 12V), and temps were around 45C stressed. If it was running idle on 100 Mhz fsb, I could even run it with the fan disconnected... temps would stay just below 50C if I remember correctly.

I know you don't want to go buy a new HSF, but still.. it's a great heatsink if you want real silence. Plus it also looks very cool in your sig.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:20 pm 
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Pentium 3's dont have thermal throttling


What I did to cool my celeron 1.0A overclocked to 1.333ghz is:
I took an AMD XP1600+ retail heatsink (bigger and takes a standard 60mm fan), used the clip from the Intel heatsink, a 80mm->60mm fan adapter, and a 80mm Panaflo low speed

My temps are only 2-3*C higher than before, but it's MUCH quieter, and I only had to buy a cheap fan adapter, since the heatsink was free from a friend, and I already had a bunch of panaflo's..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:39 pm 
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Since I replaced the celeron, I now have it lying on my desk here, folding 24/7. Instead of the SLK-800 it now has a cheap Spire Falconrock on it (<$10), together with a papst NGL fan. I never had checked temps until now.. 43C stressed. And it's totally silent. The fan that came with the HSF wasn't loud (25 db), on 7v it's silent too. So if you need a cheap replacement HSF..
(and just forgot about my ramblings about the SLK-800)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:20 pm 
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First, thanks for all the responses thus far.

It sounds like I'll probably end up having to get a new heatsink, judging from what you guys have said. I should be getting my fan bracket in this weekend, so I'll be able to test out how that works first.

The reason I wanted to avoid having to switch heatsinks is that I'm a klutz when it comes to that stuff. :? I had trouble getting the current stock HSF on a couple of years ago, and mounting the HSF on my Duron last year was a nightmare (no more Socket A for me!).

So with that in mind, what's a good Socket 370 HSF? The SLK-800 looks massive and heavy, and I'm not sure if it'll fit on my mobo. Is there anything else that provides quiet cooling, and most important, is easy-to-install?

BTW, my motherboard is the Asus CUSL2-C. You can find some decent pictures of the socket area here: http://www.hardtecs4u.com/reviews/2001/cusl2c/index2.php


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:57 pm 
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I run a BX-Tualatin combo (ABit BX6r2 w/ 1.3 GHz Celeron via PowerLeap adapter) with the retail Intel HSF. The motherboard doesn't support internal diode (it would need to be modded to do so), but it has external temp sensor (one like in DigitalDoc), which I've taped to the bottom of the HS.

I made some fan mounts that allow to use a 80 mm fan with the HS (normally runs whiny 60 mm fan). I'm currently using an old Titan 80 mm fan, running 35% with SpeedFan (=more or less 5V). I've undervolted the processor from 1.5V to 1.3V.

Temps? Ambient hovers around 24-25°C, and the processor between 42-46°C (Idle-CPU Burn-in). Placing a temp meter to the exhaust of the PSU (FSP350-60PN(PF)) gives readings around 31-32°C, depending on the ambient and CPU load. If I set the CPU fan speed to 100%, I get temps around 35-36°C (along with noise, as the Titan fan spins ~2800 RPMs at full speed).

So I'd say You are safe with the current HS. Tried SpeedFan?

Cheers,

Jan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:51 pm 
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karmasalad wrote:
...what's a good Socket 370 HSF? The SLK-800 looks massive and heavy, and I'm not sure if it'll fit on my mobo. Is there anything else that provides quiet cooling, and most important, is easy-to-install?

BTW, my motherboard is the Asus CUSL2-C.


I suspect that the SLK-800 would be overkill on that rig.

One of my own machines contains a CUSL2 with a 1GHz PIII (not overclocked). The processor stays very well cooled with a Zalman CNPS3100-Plus Socket A/370 heatsink. I have a cheap 80mm sleeve-bearing Antec fan running at 5 volts (nicely inaudible within the computer case) above it on the Zalman bracket. Usually runs business applications at around 40C according to the ASUS PC Probe application. Hottest processor temp I've seen was 54C after running Prime95 for several hours. Highly recommended!

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:35 am 
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karmasalad wrote:
First, thanks for all the responses thus far.

It sounds like I'll probably end up having to get a new heatsink, judging from what you guys have said. I should be getting my fan bracket in this weekend, so I'll be able to test out how that works first.

The reason I wanted to avoid having to switch heatsinks is that I'm a klutz when it comes to that stuff. :? I had trouble getting the current stock HSF on a couple of years ago, and mounting the HSF on my Duron last year was a nightmare (no more Socket A for me!).

So with that in mind, what's a good Socket 370 HSF? The SLK-800 looks massive and heavy, and I'm not sure if it'll fit on my mobo. Is there anything else that provides quiet cooling, and most important, is easy-to-install?

BTW, my motherboard is the Asus CUSL2-C. You can find some decent pictures of the socket area here: http://www.hardtecs4u.com/reviews/2001/cusl2c/index2.php


1)The SLK-800 will fit fine on your Cusl2, I just put one on a friends' board last week and I've also mounted them on several Tusl2s which are the identical same (physical configuration) board with Tualatin support.

2) For a cheap HSF that will work fine on your board I'd recommend the $5 GC-68 or the $7 GC-69 from SVC.com. Either will cool great and fit any 80mm fan you want to use on them. The're my standard fan for cooling PIIIs and Tualerons. I use the 18cfm NMB fan ($2.50 from SVC but they're out of stock) and this combo cools fine and is super quiet. An L1A Panaflo also works great. The GC-68 + 18cfm NMB combo gives me idle temps in the high 30°C range and load temps in the high 40° to low 50° range using PIII Tualatins. Your temps with a Coppermine CPU may be a little higher but should still be perfectly fine, especially if you use an L1A Panaflo.


Harry Azol wrote:
Pentium 3's don't have thermal throttling


In the (in)famous Tom's Hardware "How Modern Processors Cope With Heat Emergencies" article and videos they talk about how the PIII's deal with running at temps over their max:

Quote:
A few seconds after the heat sink was removed the system hangs. However, once you replace the heat sink and reboot the system, Pentium III will greet you healthily up and running. Intel's older processor is also equipped with a thermal diode and a thermal monitoring unit. This unit is not as advanced as what we find in Pentium 4, but it ensures that Pentium III stops operating as soon as a certain trigger temperature has been reached. Your system may hang and you might lose data, but the hardware of your system does not take any damage.


Be sure to look at the videos of this test. It's very enlightening.

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 Post subject: Coppermine in SECC2 package
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 11:45 am 
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Location: Swe
Hi...

I was wondering if swapping the stock fan is doable on my P3 coppemine in a SECC package?? It's a P3 800 Mhz not overclocked..

Is there a lot of modding to do?? Anybody got any pointers to howto's or anything like that..

I saw Ralf Potters post where you/he mentioned the coppermine CPU, does your/his suggestions only apply to the FCPGA chipp mounted directly on the mobo or could it be done in the aforementioned SECC package to??

Thx in advance

The Newbie...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:05 pm 
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Jan Kivar wrote:
So I'd say You are safe with the current HS. Tried SpeedFan?


I downloaded and installed that yesterday, but I'm not quite sure how to use it. Are the two % fields on the main screen where I adjust the fan speeds, or is it on one of the configuration speeds?

I didn't push it much (only down to 90%), but I'll try going harder at it when I get back home tonight.

al bundy wrote:
I suspect that the SLK-800 would be overkill on that rig.


Yeah, I think so too. It's only going to be a file server, so no need for something that extravagant. The CNPS3100 looks nice. Was it easy to install?

Ralf Hutter wrote:
Be sure to look at the videos of this test. It's very enlightening.


Thanks for that link. It was both funny (what was up with the music?) and enlightening. Good to know that the P3 will not go up in smoke on me a la AMD chips.

Someone over at Anandtech also mentioned using the GC68/9. It looks like a nice, cheap solution. Do you remember if it comes with any thermal paste or will I have to pick that up separately?

BTW, for anyone that might know: How effective is undervolting at lowering temps?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:07 pm 
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karmasalad wrote:
BTW, for anyone that might know: How effective is undervolting at lowering temps?

Very. CPU Undervolting & Underclocking: A Primer

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:09 pm 
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karmasalad wrote:
Jan Kivar wrote:
So I'd say You are safe with the current HS. Tried SpeedFan?


I downloaded and installed that yesterday, but I'm not quite sure how to use it. Are the two % fields on the main screen where I adjust the fan speeds, or is it on one of the configuration speeds?

I didn't push it much (only down to 90%), but I'll try going harder at it when I get back home tonight.


The two "%" fields on the main screen show the current fan speed. You can change the speeds from there, if the "Automatic fan speed" is not checked.

The ones in configuration page allow You to set the minimum and the maximum speeds for the fan. Most fans stop at 0%, but the most important thing is to check at which value the fan will start again if stopped, and set it to the minimum value (at least).

The maximum value can be used to quiet the system down if You want to do throttling (e.g. as the CPU makes more heat (during those file transfers), SpeedFan will speed the fan to 100%, or whatever the max value is set at when the desired temp is exceeded (set in configuration). The fan will speed up to 100% regardless of the max speed setting, if the warning temp is exceeded. Throttling is not as easy to set up, as variations in ambient temps affect the internal temps. So when it's quiet in some days when it's cool, on very hot days it could speed up even when idle.

Throttling may be also hard to set up if the motherboard reads from the internal diode, as the temps can vary ~10°C in matter of seconds. (as opposed by the external sensor I use)

The "Automatic fan speed" checkbox in main screen toggles the throttling on and off, You must set it off to use the % fields in the main screen.

I'd suggest You go through the setup instructions in the help file, as You could burn up the CPU by simply stopping the fan (or not, as Ralf pointed out about the thermal protection). Also take note that if the computer crashes, CPU usage could go to 100% and SpeedFan out of the game as the computer is crashed.

And, lastly, to spoil your fun: not all motherboards support SpeedFan. Or, better say not all motherboards will be able to set the speeds (or just one speed, like my BX board). Temps and voltages should work on every board (like in MBM). Your board is not listed at the SpeedFan home page, and I don't recall it being mentioned in the SpeedFan thread here either.

Cheers,

Jan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:57 pm 
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karmasalad wrote:
al bundy wrote:
]I suspect that the SLK-800 would be overkill on that rig.


Yeah, I think so too. It's only going to be a file server, so no need for something that extravagant. The CNPS3100 looks nice. Was it easy to install?...


Very easy. Zalman includes a special installation tool that makes it extremely easy to clip this flower sink to the board. I wish all sinks were so simple to install!

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:52 am 
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karmasalad wrote:


Someone over at Anandtech also mentioned using the GC68/9. It looks like a nice, cheap solution. Do you remember if it comes with any thermal paste or will I have to pick that up separately?


That someone was me. :)

They come with no thermal paste. You'll have to suck it up and spend another $5 for a tube of ASIII. You should keep some around anyway, you never know when you might need it.

Didn't you say at Anandtech that you were going to try the FB123 first, then look at other HSF options if the FB123 didn't work?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:35 am 
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Ralf I bought the GC69 and it came with thermal paste. Mind you it was cheapo silicon stuff but it can work. The GC68 is supposed to come with thermal paste too. Maybe they just missed it on your order.

Andrew


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:43 pm 
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Jan, thanks for taking the time for the detailed explanation on SpeedFan. Visiting the parents tonight, so I'll have to wait til tomorrow night to see what I can do.. although I get the feeling that my motherboard probably isn't supported.

al bundy wrote:
Very easy. Zalman includes a special installation tool that makes it extremely easy to clip this flower sink to the board. I wish all sinks were so simple to install!


Great! That's good to know. Were you able to install it with the mobo still mounted within the case? All the heatsinks I've installed have been on brand new machines, so they were installed before the mobo was mounted.

Ralf Hutter wrote:
karmasalad wrote:


Someone over at Anandtech also mentioned using the GC68/9. It looks like a nice, cheap solution. Do you remember if it comes with any thermal paste or will I have to pick that up separately?


That someone was me. :)

They come with no thermal paste. You'll have to suck it up and spend another $5 for a tube of ASIII. You should keep some around anyway, you never know when you might need it.

Didn't you say at Anandtech that you were going to try the FB123 first, then look at other HSF options if the FB123 didn't work?


Actually, someone else had mentioned it before you, but you can take the credit for it if you want. :wink:

Never having used AS before.. what's the difference between AS3 and their "Ceramique" AS?

And yes, I'm going to play around with the FB123 and some fans I have lying around (NMB, Panaflo L1A, standard Antec 80mm) to see if I can reach a comfortable balance of heat and noise.

I have noticed over the past couple of days, however, that my CPU is now idling around 36 ~ 40C. Temps have risen to around 32C here this week with high humidity. I just swapped out my Panaflo L1A case fans with NMBs last week too, so that's probably contributing some to the temp rise.

If I do end up having to get a new HSF, it'll probably be either the GC68 or the CNPS3100. I have to say that I'm leaning towards the Zalman right now though. Ease of installation is appealing to a klutz like me. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:37 pm 
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karmasalad wrote:
al bundy wrote:
Very easy. Zalman includes a special installation tool that makes it extremely easy to clip this flower sink to the board. I wish all sinks were so simple to install!


Great! That's good to know. Were you able to install it with the mobo still mounted within the case? All the heatsinks I've installed have been on brand new machines, so they were installed before the mobo was mounted.


Yes, but i did remove the memory sticks first, for some extra clearance. The Zalman tool that comes with the sink makes it an especially easy job to mount their flower sinks.

8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:46 am 
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What I did with a similar machine (ok, it was a 1g tulatin core celeron but the idea is the same) was to slap a 5 dollar svc cg68 on it with the stock fan instead of the retail intel hsf. Insta-no-more-whine. No fuss, no muss. I woulda put a l1a on it if I had one handy but was at a friends house and didn't have one with me.

Oh, and don't waste any money on as1/2/3/4 ... It ain't worth it for the average enthusiast. A cg68 comes with a little packet of goo that for 99.9% of all people works just as good as the stuff you pay big bucks for. The only people who wonder why I recommend that HSF so much are the people who have never used one. Best five dollar HSF there is for up to xp1800+ or any socket 360 processor. Quiet too.

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