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 Post subject: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:48 am 
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Please suggest a cooler for the Ivy Bridge 3570K CPU. I aim for low price and nearly inaudible at 3m distance. (If that noise goal is realistic. I've read conflicting reports on how hot the Ivy Bridge CPUs runs.)

I will not overclock the CPU. For use in an ATX case. The case today fits the Scythe Mine rev B cooler ( http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... cleID=2125 ) on a AMD 64 Athlon X2 CPU without heat problems and is slightly audible at 5m. The case has two 120 mm case fans set to low speed. I use an inexpensive passive GPU. It is a production machine that will be used for some CPU intensive tasks but few GPU intensive tasks (i.e. no gamer computer).

I'd like to spend no more than $75 on the cooler but of course as little as needed for the stated noise aim.

I haven't read into these issues since my last system upgrade around 2007 so consider me a novice on todays line of coolers.


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:03 am 
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If your CPU will not overclocked then it shouldn't be difficult to cool it. A Scythe Mugen 3 has great thermal performance, the stock fan is excellent (and it can be run as low as 300 rpm, i.e. inaudibly), and it's reasonably priced.

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Just helped put together a budget 3570k mATX rig. The cooler of choice was the Cooler Master Hyper 212 (SPCR Review). The fins are tight, so less suitable for low airflow cooling, and it needs a fan swap if you want silence.

I would probably get something like a Scythe Gentle Typhoon to go with that, but you can find more suitable models in the SPCR Reviews. This should be one of the cheapest favourably-reviewed coolers (8.5/10).

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Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:30 pm 
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I'm in the same boat. It's not necessarily the expense of the $50+ coolers, but their size. I don't want a tower too large or just barely fitting a Define Mini case.

So I'm considering tower coolers with 92mm fans, but one horizontal cooler that has caught my eye is the Scythe Grand Kama Cross Rev B, with a 140mm fan. I suppose I might have to worry about its clearance with the rear case fan, though.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/1 ... 0_000.html

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:30 pm 
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kuzzia wrote:
If your CPU will not overclocked then it shouldn't be difficult to cool it. A Scythe Mugen 3 has great thermal performance, the stock fan is excellent (and it can be run as low as 300 rpm, i.e. inaudibly), and it's reasonably priced.
If the Scythe Mugen fits your case, you will find it hard to get more high quality cooler per dollar.

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:49 am 
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JJ wrote:
I'm in the same boat. It's not necessarily the expense of the $50+ coolers, but their size. I don't want a tower too large or just barely fitting a Define Mini case.

So I'm considering tower coolers with 92mm fans, but one horizontal cooler that has caught my eye is the Scythe Grand Kama Cross Rev B, with a 140mm fan. I suppose I might have to worry about its clearance with the rear case fan, though.

I would ditch that one based solely on the fact it uses push-pin retention. My Minja was a pain to verify proper fastening for and eventually stripped one pin, and the Xigmatek that followed it popped right out. Outright dangerous - plus you can't get as good a contact with that little pressure.

If size was the main concern, this SPCR review (link) covers some of the better models available today. Not sure if the Noctua is in the price range, but plenty of Scythes to choose from.

Had the review come out before I made my purchase, I would have most likely gone for a compact cooler for my 3570K rig, perhaps the Big Shuriken - which is no wallet-gouger to boot.

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Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:06 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Had the review come out before I made my purchase, I would have most likely gone for a compact cooler for my 3570K rig, perhaps the Big Shuriken.


The thing about the Big Shuriken is that looks like it's designed to be used in an HTPC or miniITX case having very little headroom. I would think you'd want to replace the slim fan with a 25mm one when using a larger case.

I may want to install a GPU on my P8Z77-M Pro at some point, and from the photos of your system and that of Jens Lyn, it looks like it would be very tight with either a tower cooler with a 120mm fan, or a horizontal cooler with a 140mm fan.

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:35 am 
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JJ wrote:
I may want to install a GPU on my P8Z77-M Pro at some point... ...it looks like it would be very tight with either a tower cooler with a 120mm fan, or a horizontal cooler with a 140mm fan.

According to Noctua the NH-L12 will work with the P8Z77-M Pro and a GPU. But they also say this is only possible when the GPU does not have any components on the rear side such as backplate or memory chips. So you're right about it being a very tight fit. The issue I have with the Big Shuriken 2 is that it is significantly more expensive than the previous version. And if a 25mm fan is bought to replace the slim one supplied with it the total spend comes much closer to the cost of the NH-L12. I would have thought that the NH-L12, deployed as a twin fan PWM cooler in conjunction with the BIOS Silent mode of the P8Z77-M Pro, would give an exceptionally quiet idle (around 400rpm for the 120mm) and would have sufficient cooling capacity to deal with higher system stress if necessary without excessive noise. If need be there is always the option of Fan Xpert+ which can give a greater degree of control over a PWM CPU cooler if required.


Last edited by lodestar on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:39 am 
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JJ wrote:
The thing about the Big Shuriken is that looks like it's designed to be used in an HTPC or miniITX case having very little headroom. I would think you'd want to replace the slim fan with a 25mm one when using a larger case.

I may want to install a GPU on my P8Z77-M Pro at some point, and from the photos of your system and that of Jens Lyn, it looks like it would be very tight with either a tower cooler with a 120mm fan, or a horizontal cooler with a 140mm fan.

You're right about the fan replacement; I have the advantage of a ready reserve of quality fans, so this would be a non-issue price wise. It's not a big stretch though if you go for, say, a Nexus 120 mm.

I'll second what lodestar said. Shame about the second revision being that much more expensive (just checked local prices). The Noctua U12P I have is 126 mm wide, viewed towards case rear exhaust, so seeing as the Big Shuriken installs with heatpipes sideways (the long side), the same should apply to it, as it would be 125 mm wide. It would even leave more "breathing room" above the card, being shorter than a tower cooler, in case radiated heat was a worry.

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Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:08 am 
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Very useful discussion so far, thank you! I've narroed down a list to three alternatives that cost roughly the same in the store I intend to shop parts. Which one would you go for?
1. Cooler Master Hyper 212 + Scythe Gentle Typhoon fan
2. Scythe Mugen 3
3. Noctua NH-U9B SE2

My aim: nearly inaudible at 3m distance. In ATX case with two 120 mm case fans set to low speed. And a low performance passive GPU, unless Ivy Bridge internal HD4000 GPU is enough.

I first wrote that I wouldn't overclock it but since posting a friend suggested it was very easy and safe to overclock the 3570K. So if spending a little more on a better cooler would give me an overclocked system that still is nearly inaudible then that would be a relevant fourth alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:49 am 
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I have to clarify my comment, apparently I removed too much editing it after lodestar posted: by "the same should apply to [the Big Shuriken]" I meant that me happily installing a separate graphics card with my current cooler (assuming no tall backside components, low heatsinks or heatpipes might be okay) means that the Big Shuriken should be fine for one too.

A note on the Intel HD 4000 iGPU: it's good enough to play Dota 2 beta, Company of Heroes, Serious Sam 2 HD, and Left 4 Dead 1 with, at least for me. And I'm an FPS gamer. The heat difference to using a GTX 460 is remarkable and highly appreciated. I would not start overclocking until you can verify you have a need for it (it is already a fast CPU) and can get adequate returns (games will benefit more from a better GPU - also, pick high-frequency RAM if you're using the iGPU).

Now then, onto the "Top 3" selected here.

    A) CM Hyper 212 (EVO) + suitable fan (see SPCR reviews, don't get hung up on the GT). Proven design, tight stack not the best for low airflow, extra fan increases cost a little. Relatively lightweight for a tower cooler (<600 g if CM site Weight figure is with fan), normal footprint.

    B) Scythe Mugen 3. Relative performance unknown, most likely good knowing previous model and reading the recommendations here, heaviest (826 g with fan would make me uncomfortable) and most heatpipes of the three and thus most likely best for overclocking, bigger footprint though. Very affordable. Seems excessive, but the value can't be argued against.

    C) "Baby" Noctua. Good fastening system, two fans, very pricey. Judging by the predecessor model's review on SPCR not a good choice for overclocking, tight fin stack suggests not the best for low airflow either, even if push-pull fan setup helps with that. Would forget this one for now, competition offers better value.

Using least noise and price as the criteria, and assuming all candidates are equally compatible with the motherboard, Mugen 3 is the strongest. Personally would pick the Hyper over it due to smaller footprint and weight (easier to install, more peace of mind) - it's going to be enough for a 3570K no doubt, since the CPU has a low TDP of 77 W.

Here's a good comparison table of different coolers tested by SPCR: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1046-page9.html, see bottom. You can see how the CM's design affect cooling at low flow compared to higher flow, but the result is by no means bad. Included is the Mugen 2, which should not be too far removed from the Mugen 3.

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Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:36 am 
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bomsy wrote:
Very useful discussion so far, thank you! I've narroed down a list to three alternatives that cost roughly the same in the store I intend to shop parts. Which one would you go for?
1. Cooler Master Hyper 212 + Scythe Gentle Typhoon fan
2. Scythe Mugen 3
3. Noctua NH-U9B SE2


Exactly how much headroom do you have?

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:12 pm 
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I currently have the Scythe Mine rev B cooler (150mm high) in the case. There is a little more than 2cm between the top of the Mine and the case side. Mugen III, the tallest of the three alternatives, is 158mm so it should fit (I'm assuming motherboards and CPUs haven't become markedly higher in recent years).

Edit: but I think I can get a larger case very inexpensively if there's some other candidate CPU cooler that would need more room.


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:51 am 
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Here's the cooler that I've decided to go with for my P8Z77-M PRO/i5-3750K/Define Mini build. The Scythe Katana 4 w/92mm fan. Yes, it has pushpin mounting. I'll deal with it.

$30-40.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/1 ... 000_1.html

http://www.outletpc.com/nt2271-scythe-k ... ooler.html

Image

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Boot Drive: Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB Work Drive: WDC WD1001FALS 1 TB 7200 RPM Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB DVD-RW
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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:49 am 
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Alright, good luck with the Katana then, hope it serves you well. "100 x 100" square footprint reminds me of the Minja.

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Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Hi, I just putting together an i5-3570k system using a Gelid Tranquillo Rev. 2. Chosen for large size, good rep and low price, ~£25 in UK. It's also one of the shortest 120mm fan towers if your case isn't the most accommodating.
So far it's impressive, ~65°C core temp under prime 95 with the fan ~650rpm. Admittedly on test bench which may help temps, no airflow sound to speak of but some faint fan "buzz" I suspect the buzz would be inaudible in a case in normal use circumstances. Also no HDD, just 240GB Agility 3, MSI Z77 board and 2x8GB RAM. The combo running Windows 7 x64 is very snappy so far. Just tried a little OC too, so far only on stock voltage and up to 4.2GHz and still under 70°C with minimum fan speed :-)

Regards, Seb

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Das_Saunamies: I overlooked your reply above, thank you.

Based on what you write the HD4000 iGPU will be enough for me gaming wise. I'll test run the system with iGPU and no overclock for some time and keep it that way if I'm content. I'm removing Noctua NH-U9B SE2 from my list. Now there's a duel:
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO w replacement fan --vs-- Scythe Mugen 3 rev B

The 212 review here
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1046-page9.html
and here (for the updated EVO version)
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews ... _evo/5.htm
combined with the Gentle Typhoon 800 rpm replacement fan reviewed here
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1266-page5.html
together with Das_Saunamies's reasoning have convinced me that the 212 would sufficiently cool a 3570K at very low noise levels. The same goes for the Mugen 3 rev B of course.

Something else must break the tie.

Mugen 3 advantages:
- more room for future overclocking (at a still reasonably low noise level)

Mugen 3 disadvantages:
- bulkier, so more troublesome to mount/dismount it
- not compatible with high memory modules, at least in the two slots next to the cooler.
- heavier, so higher risk of a motherboard breaking
- might make it hard/impossible to mount certain GPUs with large heatsinks
- slightly pricier, in the sense that Hyper 212 + replacement fan together costs the same as Mugen 3 in the shop I'll use. So I get a spare fan for free with the 212 alternative.

At the moment Mugen tentatively tops my list. The computer is stationary so cooler weight related risk is very low I'd think. Low profile memory modules cost and perform roughly equally as high profile. I'll plug in 16GB (4 * 4GB) when putting the system together and will likely not need to move/replace memory for quite some time. As for bulkiness yes the Mugen looks heftier than I'd like it to be but the installation steps seem ok and there looks to be space for an (non cutting edge) GPU card if I want one. So in short, one advantage and no major drawbacks for my intended use case.

Still a very close call. I may decide with a coin toss in the end. Any additional thoughts that might give me a final pull in either direction?

Some background links:
Mugen official installation overview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ZeyC8T7AQ
Official webpage with motherboard compatibility list
http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/cp ... rev-b.html
Photos of (lack of) space for high profile memory modules
http://www.scythe-eu.com/forum/mainboar ... ility.html
Post with photo indicating that the 212 will fit even high profile memory modules in all slots
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showpost.p ... stcount=10
But to switch memory stick once the cpu cooler is in place I'd need to remove the cooler fan from the looks of it. So in that regard the 212 and Mugen are equal (as are most larger CPU coolers I guess).


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:21 am 
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I'm trying to decide the same thing and am looking at the Mugen 3, but with two caveats:

I'm using a dedicated GPU
I'm putting it in a matx case, most likely the Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E.
Motherboard will likely be an Asus P8Z77-M Pro

Am I likely to run into any clearance issues? Height-wise, I think I'm okay. The Temjin also has a neat CPU Cooler support which should alleviate some of the weight concerns. My primary worry is the GPU.

Little to no overclocking, so alternatives are welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:11 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
JJ wrote:
The thing about the Big Shuriken is that looks like it's designed to be used in an HTPC or miniITX case having very little headroom. I would think you'd want to replace the slim fan with a 25mm one when using a larger case.


You're right about the fan replacement; I have the advantage of a ready reserve of quality fans, so this would be a non-issue price wise. It's not a big stretch though if you go for, say, a Nexus 120 mm.

I'll second what lodestar said. Shame about the second revision being that much more expensive (just checked local prices).


For anyone interested, I just noticed a great deal at NCIX on the Big Shuriken 2 REV.B. $29.99 through July 25.

http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=67626& ... omoid=1261

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Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-M PRO CPU: Intel i5-3750K CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B Memory: G.Skill Ares DDR3 1600 16 GB
Boot Drive: Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB Work Drive: WDC WD1001FALS 1 TB 7200 RPM Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB DVD-RW
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Fans: 2 x FD 120mm front, Scythe 120mm PWM rear Power Supply: SeaSonic M12II 620


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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:57 am 
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ChaoZ wrote:
Am I likely to run into any clearance issues? Height-wise, I think I'm okay. The Temjin also has a neat CPU Cooler support which should alleviate some of the weight concerns. My primary worry is the GPU.
That is the problem with Scythe, you just never know. Thermalright, Noctua and to some extent Prolimatech have compatibility tables. Noctua's are the most detailed and seemingly trustworthy.

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 Post subject: Re: help: inexpensive cooler for Ivy Bridge 3570K
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:06 pm 
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ChaoZ wrote:
I'm trying to decide the same thing and am looking at the Mugen 3, but with two caveats:

I'm using a dedicated GPU
I'm putting it in a matx case, most likely the Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E.
Motherboard will likely be an Asus P8Z77-M Pro

Am I likely to run into any clearance issues? Height-wise, I think I'm okay. The Temjin also has a neat CPU Cooler support which should alleviate some of the weight concerns. My primary worry is the GPU.

Little to no overclocking, so alternatives are welcome.


I went ahead and got the Scythe Mugen 3 anyway. :) I don't have a GPU yet, but I may add one in the future. Just eyeballing it, I'd say the Mugen, which is 130mm wide, has about 3/8"/10mm of clearance from where the back side of a GPU would be in the first PCIe slot. I don't think you'll have much of a problem unless there's something mounted to, or sticking off the back of the card. The Mugen 3 also had no problem clearing the case in my Define Mini, without touching the thick foam padding that covers the side door fan grill.

I'm seeing some nice temps so far - about 25-26º at idle, and 47º running Prime95.

_________________
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-M PRO CPU: Intel i5-3750K CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B Memory: G.Skill Ares DDR3 1600 16 GB
Boot Drive: Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB Work Drive: WDC WD1001FALS 1 TB 7200 RPM Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB DVD-RW
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Fans: 2 x FD 120mm front, Scythe 120mm PWM rear Power Supply: SeaSonic M12II 620


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