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 Post subject: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
I just finished my new system and I find the temperatures of the CPU a bit to high for idle.
List of components:
CASE: Antec Solo 2
PSU: Seasonic X460
MB: Intel DZ77SL-50K
CPU: i3470 cooled by a Scythe Mugen 3
VGA: HD 6770 pasive (Gigabyte)
RAM: 2 x 4G
OCZ Agility 3 64 GB SSD system drive
2xStorage (soft mounted) HDD:
1 x 1TB Samsung and 1 x 1 TB Seagate
For cooling, 5 x 12 cm fans:
2 x Intake Slipstreams at 500-550 RPM
1 x Exhaust (Antec that comes eith the case) at max speed
1 x Noctua for VGA cooling at 500-550 RPM
2 x PushPull Nexuses sandwich at max speed for CPU cooling

CPU temps hover (rather quicklly) between 36-42 deg C at idle. Mind that the VGA fan blows upwards toward the cpu heatsink intake's nexus.
At load (prime 95) temperatures settle after 5 minutes and remain between 58-60 degC.
I can accept the load temperatures (which I never reached with my every day usage, that includes games) but I am scared about the idle temps.

SHOULD I CHANGE THE CPU HEATSINK OR NOT?
it's too much noise for me to take for the price of lower temps.

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


Last edited by ghia on Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:08 am
Posts: 79
The idle temps seem around 5-7c hotter than they should be. Not exactly a show-stopper but if you are that worried, these are the things I'd check off:

1. Reapply the heat sink compound and re-seat the cooler ?

2. You have the fanless Seasonic.. I assume the heat vents are sitting at the top of the case ?

3. Change the direction of the VGA cooling fan ? Could it be pushing hot air into the CPU cooler ?

1000

ghia wrote:
I just finished my new system and I find the temperatures of the CPU a bit to high for idle.
List of components:
CASE: Antec Solo 2
PSU: Seasonic X460
MB: Intel DZ77SL-50K
CPU: i3470 cooled by a Scythe Mugen 3
VGA: HD 6770 pasive (Gigabyte)
RAM: 4 x 2G
OCZ Agility 3 64 GB SSD system drive
2xStorage (soft mounted) HDD:
1 x 1TB Samsung and 1 x 1 TB Seagate
For cooling, 5 x 12 cm fans:
2 x Intake Slipstreams at 500-550 RPM
1 x Exhaust (Antec that comes eith the case) at max speed
1 x Noctua for VGA cooling at 500-550 RPM
2 x PushPull Nexuses sandwich at max speed for CPU cooling

CPU temps hover (rather quicklly) between 36-42 deg C at idle. Mind that the VGA fan blows upwards toward the cpu heatsink intake's nexus.
At load (prime 95) temperatures settle after 5 minutes and remain between 58-60 degC.
I can accept the load temperatures (which I never reached with my every day usage, that includes games) but I am scared about the idle temps.

SHOULD I CHANGE THE CPU HEATSINK OR NOT?
it's too much noise for me to take for the price of lower temps.


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Gefle, Sweden
It's really all fine at those temperatures. There's no practical gain in having a very low idle temperature. Just maybe check so that the power management for the CPU is working (lowering clocks when at low loads). To avoid wasting electricity needlessly.


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
What are the other temps (ambient, case, gpu, etc)? How are you measuring the CPU temps?

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Thanks for the replys!

t100: I will reapply the grease and reseat the mugen; the seasonic faces up the top vent of the solo2, as intended; I agree that maybe all the heat from the VGA is pushed directly into the cpu air flow; I will change the orientation of the fan.

mkk: all power management for the cpu is working; but I still find that 5 fans is to much to cool a 77 W cpu and that temps should be lower (2 nexus fans on the mugen at constant full speed should see lower temps, right?)

CA_Steve: the other temps are ok; vga 34-47, pch 44-55, ram 29-38, hdd 23-35

All temps are measured by speedfan, cpuid HWMonitor and Intel Desktop Uilities.

I am still covienced that this is a cpu HS problem.

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
OK, so I did a couple of changes:
- reinstaled the mugen, reapplied as5 (I put to much the first time around) and removed the nexus sandwich "push-pull" fans
- mugen is now cooled by the scythe pwm fan (cca 800-900 rpm, MB control)
- moved one nexus to rear exhaust (again cca 800-850 rpm, MB control)
- removed completelly the vga fan; I tried it blowing away from the card but temps were identical to the no fan config
- replaced the bottom intake with a noctua 800 rpm conected to the 9V lna wire

Temps are a little better:
- CPU idle: 35-41C to load: 45-48C
- VGA idle: 37-41C to load: < 50C
- Slight increase in southbridge temps: idle + 3-4C and load < 55C
- no change in ram, vr, hdd temps.

P.S.1: when I removed the mugen I observed the pattern of presure -> there was no paste on the sides and most of it in the center: that makes the cooler base concave; is that desirable? -> that's why my temps are higher than usual; I remember reading that the top coolers all (Ultra revc, megahalems, noctua) have convex bases and apply more pressure on the cpu hs
If that's true I should get another cooler with better cpu contact?

P.S.2: Sorry for intruding in another post with my problems...it was just out of neccessity :) I hpoe I have not offended anyone!

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4739
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Your load temp went from 60C to 48C - that was probably due to reseating the cooler. It's an excellent result. You should declare that a success and stop messing with it. As far as the idle temp goes...fluctuating from 35-41C sorta implies you have processes that are causing the CPU to go from a low multiplier/clock to the load multiplier clock. What does CPUID show?

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
To clarify some things.

for me, load temps mean gaming (plus some background applications running)

I run 1 hour of prime 95: with cpu and exhaust fans full on (1500/1100 rpm) temps stabilised within 2 minutes and remained around 55-57C. Vga rose to 60. Everything else was ok (pch, ram, vrm, hdd)

About idle: cpu voltage drops down to 0,8V; with nothing runnig temp is 35 ishC; with very light usage voltage varies fast around 0,8 to 1V (docs editing, internet, torrents and music in the backround), with fans at 500 rpm (all of them) temp is 38-42.

My opinion (to bad spcr does not have a review yet :?) is that the mugen 3 has a significant impedance to the airflow, craves for air and pressure (tight fin spacing and rather thick fins) and that it's base is the opposite to what it should be; can not compare heatpipe and soldering quality to others
Why am I so keen on lower temps: my sig system (obsolete now) runs at 25-27C idle and prime 95 drives cpu temps to 60; gaming adds 10 C to he cpu, and vga goes to 45C. And that is a 2 fan system: 1 seasonic adda fan that does not spin up and the scythe ninja fan converted to exhaust (so passive cpu and passive gpu) [guess I have to modify my sig].

Bottom line: I think I need the best convex base CPU cooler with a perfect mounting system and thinner + broader spaced fins. Reading spcr reviews make me think that base quality, heatpipe quality, soldering quality, mounting system quality prevale over fin thiknness and spacing. My needs are silence and efficient cooling; and since my cpu/vga usage is rather low I want to invest in the best product around to obtain both silence and cooling.

Help is more than welcomed ! I need to decide and choose fast.

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Gefle, Sweden
Data read off the integrated sensors between two systems can also vary quite a bit, and more so when comparing different platforms/generations of hardware. There could just as well be a readout difference of 10C between them without there being any real world difference at all. Just a heads up on that. The previous situation was not a problem so the current one is just fine and dandy. :) You're certainly right about the surface there, and it's possible that it makes even more of a difference with this generation of CPU's where Intel has chosen to go with thermal paste between the chip and the heatspreader.


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Well, it you think the base of the cooler is not making a good interface to the IHS, you could lap the cooler.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
I could try to lap it but I believe the problem will persist since there's the unsolvable problem of the mounting system: just simple wing that bolt on the sides of the base and then extensions that link with the backplate; they just do not assure enough pressure. Lapping the base will certainlly make a difference of a couple of degrees but not much.

Isn't there another cpu cooler to better my current results? Spcr recommends the ultra rev c (not available in our country anymore), the megahalems (kind of expensive - not sure about low airflow performance) and the big dual fan expensive noctua. Seems that the thermalright venomous x is a close 4th place but again is unavailable in our contry.

Solutions pretty please!

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:06 pm 
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The Mugen is one of the best suited coolers for fans with low rpm/pressure. And comparing E8400 idle temps to IvyBridge idle temps doesn't result in anything useful.

You might get better temps by rotating the cooler 90°, because the IB die is more rectangular than a SB die and you might have mounted the Mugen with heatpipes oriented over the short side of the die's shape. If that doesn't change temps, your CPU might happen to be on the hotter side of variance.


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
Thank you...never crossed my mind: I will look into that and rotate the cooler if needed!

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
But if I rotate the cooler 90 deg. it will face the PSU :shock: :?

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:41 am 
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Hi, if it were my system I would not be in the slightest bit concerned about your idle temperatures!
The load temperatures are good, anything under 75°C is fine for Sandybridge and even more so for Ivybridge. As the load temps are good the heatsink has to be making good contact with the CPU, the idle temps being higher than you would like are simply "the nature of the beast."
My 2600k doesn't start to do thermal throttling until the reported temps get over 95°C! [turned all the fans right down and nervously watched it cook itself with Tmonitor from CPUID]

My experience is that different CPUs, and especially different architectures, report different temperatures for idle and load. Remember Ivybridge is the smallest architecture yet so the heat produced is in a smaller area and temps will inevitably be higher to remove the same amount of power from that smaller area. There was plenty of discussion on the 'net about how hot Ivybridge could get when overclocked. I think the only "problem" is in your expectations.

I wouldn't recommend turning the heatsink round to send the heat through the PSU or you may give yourself another problem.

I would have thought you should be able to use just the case exhaust fan and a single fan on the CPU, and maybe one on the video card. I get away with 2x92mm case fans, 1x80mm case fan and 80mm fan in PSU also exhausting from the case, with no intake fans and my system draws well over 300w fully loaded, probably double what yours does!

I would just turn the fans down till either it's inaudible or the full load CPU temp is ~75°C, which ever comes first, and enjoy using your system :)

Seb

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i7 2600k under NH-C14 w/2xTY-140PWM fans, P8P67Deluxe, 8GB RAM, GTX560Ti OC w/TwinTurbo II and BIOS fanspeed mod. 2x120GB HyperX 3K RAID 0 & 2TB EARX in Scythe QuietDrive outside case. Antec Signature 650 fan swapped. CoolerMaster 201C with 2x92 + lower 92mm fan out rear, holes-in-floor and mesh top+front intakes.


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
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Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
SebRad:
All you said makes perfect sense.

I will lap though the mugen's base and run the system on 3 fans (1 intake+gpu, 1 cpu and 1 exhaust).

Still thinking of replacing the mugen with...(the better mounting systems for noctua, tr and prolima just keep me awake at night)...I'll see.
Thanks!

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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 Post subject: Re: i5 3470 too hot?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:48 am
Posts: 80
Location: Cluj-Napoca, Romania
This is how the mugen's base looks after some lapping. I had to work hard for it to even up.
Temps are now about 3-4 deg cooler. I ran some 30 min of prime95 and max temp was 57. I have to admit this is 5 minutes after reinstalling the cooler, with fresh artic silver 5. At 25-26 ambient temperature, cpu idle temp is 32-37 deg. That is with one fan on the cpu hs at constant 900 rpm (original pwm slipstream) and one exhaust nexus fan at the sme 900 rpm plus to intake fans run at 600-650 rpm (1 slipstream, 1 noctua). I will give it another week or so but I am more and more decided to buy a prolimatech genesis or the thermalright archon (if it clears the solo2 case).
Thanks for the great help and info!

1) Concave base is the understatement of the year in scythe terms! 10 minutes in: nickel plating off off-centre
Image

2) That is after 20 minutes of constant rubbing...
Image

3) Now we are close!
Image

4) Over 30 minutes now...I gave up and ditched the finner sand paper.
Image

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i5 3470 + heavily lapped Mugen3 RevB + stock Scythe SS pw @ 560 rpm, Intel DZ77SL-50, Gigabyte 6770 passive + 120 mm Noctua @ 460 rpm, 8GB DDR2, 60GB OCZ vertex 3 system SSD, 2*1TB HDD elastic band mounted, Seasonic X460W, SOLO II (Nexus intake + exhaust at 660 rpm)


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