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 Post subject: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:38 am
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Hi all,

So, I first posted here about 2 years ago. My system is, for the most part, still kicking alive and well (now I use a Corsair RM750i as my PSU). I also added an Intel SSD into the mix, and an Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter to make sure I'm not using the crappy Killer NIC. Sadly, it does take some airflow away from the GPU but it's worth it. You can see my entire setup in the signature.

Now, I want to lower the noise as much as possible. I have already set all the fan profiles in the BIOS to Silent instead of Normal, and that helps somewhat.

However, during load, the system still gets pretty noisy, and pretty much most of that noise comes from the CPU. I'm not sure how I can reduce the noise even further, but here is what I was thinking of:

1. Take out the dust filters and give them a good compressed air can treatment. Also be more thorough with cleaning inside the case.
2. Purchase 2xNoctua NF-A14 to use as stock intake fans instead of the stock fan and AF140. I am also considering the be quiet! Silent Wings 3 and Corsair ML140 fans. Which ones are better for my situation? The NF-A14s seem to be more generally supported and known as being great and reliable, and the ML140s seem pretty fancy in terms of tech, but not sure how well they actually work in practice.
3. If and when I purchase those fans, where else can I put the replaced fans? Should I even use them somewhere else?

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:14 am 
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Welcome back.

CPU, huh? Before modding, have you looked at temps and fan speeds for system, CPU, and GPU while heavily loaded? Generally, the graphics card is the loudest thing in the system. Maybe there's something odd going on with the Noctua..

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:38 am
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CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome back.

CPU, huh? Before modding, have you looked at temps and fan speeds for system, CPU, and GPU while heavily loaded? Generally, the graphics card is the loudest thing in the system. Maybe there's something odd going on with the Noctua..


Thanks!

I play CPU heavy games like Paradox strategy ones. So, the CPU does lots of work in those. I know it's the Noctua because it's the same noise when I stress test the CPU in p95 26.6. The CPU sounds like a jet almost instantly in p95, even say at lower settings (4.3GHz @ 1.2v), ambient around 26-27 C. And gets in the seventies on the Silent profile.

The GPU is mostly quiet, frankly. Especially after the undervolt. Even in more GPU heavy games like Total War: Warhammer 2 (though that title is still heavy on the CPU also).

I think this 4790k is bad in general. It's stable at 4.3 GHz when using 1.2v, but anything higher requires like 1.26v. No delid by the way. No low noise adapter on the Noctua cooler either.

EDIT: What about the fans I was wondering about? I also noticed the Silent Wings 3 140mm has different RPM models, 1000 and 1600. I assume the 1000 one is ideal, but not sure where the 1600 one would be good (maybe as CPU cooler fan?). The different fan speed ones are the same price, interestingly enough. Should I just get the 1600 PWM then? Is there anything I'm losing over the 1000 RPM one? If there is, I'll just get the 1000 ones then, I only want to use them as case fans anyway. Interestingly enough, the premium be quiet! cases use the 1600 RPM versions as case fans. Reading more about it, Silent Wings 3 seem like really good fans. I do wonder if they are ideal in my situation over the Corsair or Noctua choices above. Curious if the SW3 PWM issue is a thing on my motherboard.

The SW3 are the same price as the NF-A14. However, the Noctua fans have 6 year warranty compared to 3. So, that's something else to consider. In addition to that, the SW3 have even lower CFM than the Fractal GP-14, stock fans the R5 comes with. I don't know if that's going to be enough airflow, considering they have to pull air through a dust filter and the solid front panel of the R5. Am I worrying for nothing?

Then again, I have heard that the SW3 are more pleasant in terms of sound, and more reports of the Noctua fans clicking/vibrating. Decisions, decisions...

There are also other considerations to make besides 1000 RPM vs 1600 RPM. There is PWM vs non-PWM. Whether to use fan controller or motherboard sys fan headers

The 1600 version runs at 1000 rpm at 7v, vs the other at 600. Alternatively, I could get the 1600 and run the fan controller at 5v, that would be 750 rpm, so something in between.

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:21 am 
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I don't think changing the case fans will significantly alter the noise from the CPU cooler...but I don't know what's going on temp and rpm-wise with your system other than the CPU cooler idles at 27C and under high stress with over volt gets "in the 70's".

1) It could be the cooler needs to be cleaned. Dust build up in fins can drastically reduce cooling performance causing temp rise and rpm rise.

2) It could be the cooler needs to be remounted. Can't really tell without a temp loading/unloading curve. Here's an example of 1 core from my system (signature) at idle, with small FFT Prime95 loaded, and then unloaded. The steep drop in temp when unloaded shows a good connection between the cooler and the CPU.
Attachment:
cpu loading curve.PNG


3) It could be the intake filter and the case fans need to be cleaned.

4) It could be there isn't enough airflow through the case. Hard to tell without idle/load temps and case fan speeds.

I'd look at 2) first as it just takes a quick Prime 95 test and Speedfan app to show you what's going on. And, it's always good to clean off the fans, filters, and cooler. My old video card went from having thermal overload to working fine once I removed the fan assembly and cleaned out the cooler.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:05 am 
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Attached is the P95 26.6 (so, no AVX) Small FFTs temperature result (in hwinfo64). CPU is using 1.2v, and it's at 4.3GHz. Test has been running for half an hour. The BIOS fan profiles are on Silent, ambient is again around 25C or so.

The dust filters and case fans were recleaned today, so that should not be an issue.

As for the actual CPU cooler, that was cleaned 1-2 months ago.

The cooler was remounted several times already, and TIM reapplied at least twice on different occasions. I don't think it ever was much better than this.

Other attachment is the SpeedFan results, basically Core 0 temps on idle, then P95 Small FFTs for 30 seconds or so, then cancelling.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:53 am 
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Nothing wrong with those temps/mounting...and the Noctua should be able to handle this with room to spare.

Here's another thing to try - instead of using BIOS fan profile, load Gigabyte's Windows based s/w. It should let you build custom curves for all the fans.

Also, what are the CPU cooler fans' speed at idle and load with BIOS mode?

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:14 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Nothing wrong with those temps/mounting...and the Noctua should be able to handle this with room to spare.

Here's another thing to try - instead of using BIOS fan profile, load Gigabyte's Windows based s/w. It should let you build custom curves for all the fans.

Also, what are the CPU cooler fans' speed at idle and load with BIOS mode?


In general, I hate using software solutions and I like to go with BIOS settings. I don't really want to resort to using programs to change the fan speed (I'm only doing it for the GTX 1080 because I already have Afterburner/RTSS for FPS limiter, OSD, and undervolting purposes).

As for the requested speed at idle and load with BIOS mode Silent, all power saving features, etc, turned on, see them below.

Idle: 750 RPM (temperatures in the 40-45 range).

Load (P95): 1500 RPM pretty much within 2-3 seconds, with temps hitting ~75C.

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Well, you might hate it (as do I), but it's a useful debug tool. You may have to go this route to get the motherboard under control.

Silent mode is still maxing out the NF-A15s' to 1500rpm..in a few seconds. So, it's not a case airflow problem. That would be something that happens in tens of minutes as the case heats up. You could attach their LNA adapter and drop it to 1200rpm. See what happens to the temps. But, 1200rpm is still noticeable. You'll need to get somewhere under 1000rpm for the gfx card to become dominant.

S/W control is probably your best hope. And, the Noctuas will start up at under 200rpm, so you can really quiet the system down for non-gaming uses, too.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Delid the 4790K it should net you around 10C, probably more. My 8700K on load would reach close to 80C, post delid barely touches 65c, on gaming.... i hardly break 55C, its really amazing what delided achieves, specially someone that its looking for quiet computing.

And about 140mm fans, to me BeQuiet BL067 Silentwings3 is one if not the best that i have ever used, i own a lot of NF-A14, and to me they are decent but tonally i dont like them past 800rpms, i prefer Antec True Quiet 140. That said the air moved by the bequiet is less, so if you are running your noctuas at 1500rpms, you will need something similar, but the trick again is delid and go with the bequiets, or if you want, delid and lower your rpms of the noctuas, they should be decent if you drop them lower.

If you fear deliding like me, there are people that will do it for you, two that i have used and i can recommend are Remis Computer Solutions and Silicone Lotery.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:05 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Well, you might hate it (as do I), but it's a useful debug tool. You may have to go this route to get the motherboard under control.

Silent mode is still maxing out the NF-A15s' to 1500rpm..in a few seconds. So, it's not a case airflow problem. That would be something that happens in tens of minutes as the case heats up. You could attach their LNA adapter and drop it to 1200rpm. See what happens to the temps. But, 1200rpm is still noticeable. You'll need to get somewhere under 1000rpm for the gfx card to become dominant.

S/W control is probably your best hope. And, the Noctuas will start up at under 200rpm, so you can really quiet the system down for non-gaming uses, too.


The good thing is, there isn't anything in the current way that I use the computer which puts even close to as much load on the CPU. Still, it is the loudest part of the system normally, along with the HDD (when it's working, damn WD Black HDD, wish I never bought it and got WD Red instead, would have been cheaper and quieter), and I think the front case fans.

I'm also not sure about using the LNA. It makes things look less clean inside and I believe someone from SPCR recommended against it last time I was on the forum, as technically it's a resistor which leads to efficiency loss.

This does lead me to believe that for my use case (refusal to use software and only wanting to go with BIOS or fan controller), the SW3 1000 RPM fans are the best. 2 PWM ones for the CPU instead of what the NH-D15 comes with, and 2 DC that go in as front fans and run at 7V (600RPM). Alternatively, the front fans could be replaced by the 1600 RPM version, at 5V (750RPM). I wonder what the difference between 750RPM and 600RPM is in terms of airflow and noise.

Of course, this is expensive. And I don't know how many people replace their NH-D15 fans because they are too loud.

Alternatively, I could indeed try to control them using software. Still not ideal.

Abula wrote:
Delid the 4790K it should net you around 10C, probably more. My 8700K on load would reach close to 80C, post delid barely touches 65c, on gaming.... i hardly break 55C, its really amazing what delided achieves, specially someone that its looking for quiet computing.

And about 140mm fans, to me BeQuiet BL067 Silentwings3 is one if not the best that i have ever used, i own a lot of NF-A14, and to me they are decent but tonally i dont like them past 800rpms, i prefer Antec True Quiet 140. That said the air moved by the bequiet is less, so if you are running your noctuas at 1500rpms, you will need something similar, but the trick again is delid and go with the bequiets, or if you want, delid and lower your rpms of the noctuas, they should be decent if you drop them lower.

If you fear deliding like me, there are people that will do it for you, two that i have used and i can recommend are Remis Computer Solutions and Silicone Lotery.


Your BQ experience sounds good. I'm just wondering if I should get the 1600RPM versions of the BQ since they are the same price as the 1000RPM ones. And the PWM vs DC issue, as mentioned here: http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-q ... eed-fan/3/

So, I'm not sure if I should go with PWM or DC. I'd go for PWM, but this issue makes me uneasy, I'm not sure if my motherboard would run them fine. DC vs PWM is pretty much the same price.

Delidding sounds really good, but unfortunately those 2 places are located in the US, so I imagine it would be a huge hassle to get them delivered there.

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Quote:
And the PWM vs DC issue, as mentioned here: http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-q ... eed-fan/3/
Doyll and you have pointed me that issue on BQ, i have never experience it, on 12x BQ BL067 that i have bought on different dates and companies, none have exhibit that issue, one thing that could be responsible, is that things like the Aquero6 is cherish as a great fan controller, but its software based and could have bugs, maybe its buggy with BQ fans... idk, i dont have issues with them with MSI and AsRock bios fan control, also remember i drive my fans low, not aiming to be near the top of the rpms, but i also tested post i saw the issue, and i never was able to reproduce it.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Abula wrote:
Quote:
And the PWM vs DC issue, as mentioned here: http://thermalbench.com/2016/10/31/be-q ... eed-fan/3/
Doyll and you have pointed me that issue on BQ, i have never experience it, on 12x BQ BL067 that i have bought on different dates and companies, none have exhibit that issue, one thing that could be responsible, is that things like the Aquero6 is cherish as a great fan controller, but its software based and could have bugs, maybe its buggy with BQ fans... idk, i dont have issues with them with MSI and AsRock bios fan control, also remember i drive my fans low, not aiming to be near the top of the rpms, but i also tested post i saw the issue, and i never was able to reproduce it.


Ah, fair enough. Still dunno if I should get the 1000 or 1600, any idea about that?

I am heavily considering the PWM fans now, as it'll be good to use them when I get a proper motherboard anyway. I think my motherboard won't run these fans too well, check this out:

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm/faq

Then check out my manual: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/G1 ... ort-manual

Compare this image from the Noctua FAQ: https://noctua.at/media/wysiwyg/images/ ... _types.jpg

Here is what they also say: "Note that mainboard manufacturers use different terms to indicate that Pin 4 is not being used for PWM control (e.g. “+5V”, “VCC” or “NC”), but if one of these terms is used, you can be sure that the fan header does not support PWM. If Pin 4 is described as “Speed Control” or “PWM” or the like, you can be sure that the fan header supports PWM.

Unfortunately, the description of Pin 2 is not always a clear indication as some manufacturers use terms such as “Fan PWR” or “Power” for both types of fan headers. However, if Pin 2 is described as “Speed Control”, you can also be sure that the fan header does not support PWM based speed control. If Pin 2 is described as “+12V”, this is a clear indication that the fan header supports PWM."

If you check out the manual of my motherboard, you will spot the issue very easily. SYS_FAN1/2/3 are like this: GND, Speed Control, Sense, VCC (PIN 1-4). As you can see, the board uses a fake PWM controller according to Noctua. Pin 4 says VCC, so it's not used for PWM control. Pin 2 is Speed Control, so again double the certainty that in fact the PWM controllers on my motherboard, are fake.

Not sure what implications this would have if I plugged them in, though. I guess they would at worst be voltage controlled? Or would they run at full speed forever?

Also, why I don't like 3rd party programs: it can trigger anti-cheat programs. In fact, SpeedFan did that in PUBG, I don't know if it still does.

_________________
PSU: Corsair RM750i
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z97
CPU: i7-4790k @ 4.4GHz/1.26v
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 push/pull
GPU: MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X @ 0.931v
RAM: 2x8GB 1333MHz RAM @ 2133MHz
SSD: Samsung 840 120GB, Intel 545s 256GB
HDD: WD Black 2TB
PCIe Expansion Card: Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter
Case: Fractal Define R5, Stock R5 fans + 1 front Corsair AF140 (fan controller on 7V)


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
ThePrussianPrince wrote:
I am heavily considering the PWM fans now, as it'll be good to use them when I get a proper motherboard anyway. I think my motherboard won't run these fans too well, check this out:

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a14-pwm/faq

Then check out my manual: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/G1 ... ort-manual

Compare this image from the Noctua FAQ: https://noctua.at/media/wysiwyg/images/ ... _types.jpg

Here is what they also say: "Note that mainboard manufacturers use different terms to indicate that Pin 4 is not being used for PWM control (e.g. “+5V”, “VCC” or “NC”), but if one of these terms is used, you can be sure that the fan header does not support PWM. If Pin 4 is described as “Speed Control” or “PWM” or the like, you can be sure that the fan header supports PWM.

Unfortunately, the description of Pin 2 is not always a clear indication as some manufacturers use terms such as “Fan PWR” or “Power” for both types of fan headers. However, if Pin 2 is described as “Speed Control”, you can also be sure that the fan header does not support PWM based speed control. If Pin 2 is described as “+12V”, this is a clear indication that the fan header supports PWM."

If you check out the manual of my motherboard, you will spot the issue very easily. SYS_FAN1/2/3 are like this: GND, Speed Control, Sense, VCC (PIN 1-4). As you can see, the board uses a fake PWM controller according to Noctua. Pin 4 says VCC, so it's not used for PWM control. Pin 2 is Speed Control, so again double the certainty that in fact the PWM controllers on my motherboard, are fake.
Its a tough choice, i would test each header before you commit into new fans, in the past most motherboard manufacturers had very crappy header design, recently most have been improving a lot, i can tell you that i just bought a gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master and their bios fan control seems very good, i would still give the edge to MSI, but its usable, i do have an issue though that im trying to correct with gigabyte.

Back in the Z68/Z87/Z97 days, we were battling Asus Fake 4pin pwm, among other things, but you could still do bios fan control fine as long as you were able to test them well, and upon testing buying fans according to each header, so practically you plan according to the limitation of the design of the board.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:
Not sure what implications this would have if I plugged them in, though. I guess they would at worst be voltage controlled? Or would they run at full speed forever?
Some say you shouldnt run PWM fans undervolted that the motor is design to be ran at 12V always, but then you get a Noctua PWM fan and it comes with a resistor, so could be fine or could have a limit, i personally think its best to buy according to what the header is restricted by design, so if its voltage control get a 3pin and if its PWM control get 4pin, price is almost the same, so taking some time into testing each header is a must, at least for me in the past, most motherboards are now a days switchable headers or smart headers that switch depending on what you plug in.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:
Also, why I don't like 3rd party programs: it can trigger anti-cheat programs. In fact, SpeedFan did that in PUBG, I don't know if it still does.
I also like to run as minimal as i can, and try to persue bios fan control always, but this is more a user preference.

ThePrussianPrince wrote:
Ah, fair enough. Still dunno if I should get the 1000 or 1600, any idea about that?
Thats up to you, for me 1600rpms is too much i would never use it, for me 1000rpms is high enough, but i do have my cpu delided so i don't need as much airflow as you might atm, so this decision only you should take it, as your setup is different. I leave you at the bottom the fan curve of the BL067, sadly i dont have nor i have tested the 1600rpm version.


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Abula wrote:
Some say you shouldnt run PWM fans undervolted that the motor is design to be ran at 12V always, but then you get a Noctua PWM fan and it comes with a resistor, so could be fine or could have a limit, i personally think its best to buy according to what the header is restricted by design, so if its voltage control get a 3pin and if its PWM control get 4pin, price is almost the same, so taking some time into testing each header is a must, at least for me in the past, most motherboards are now a days switchable headers or smart headers that switch depending on what you plug in.

That's the thing, it's 4 pin but fake PWM on the motherboard, so what then? I suppose PWM fans will work based on voltage control then, so in essence just like non-PWM fans?

Abula wrote:
I also like to run as minimal as i can, and try to persue bios fan control always, but this is more a user preference.

It looks like BIOS control allows me to go for 0.75 PWM value / C, which should be good enough.

Abula wrote:
Thats up to you, for me 1600rpms is too much i would never use it, for me 1000rpms is high enough, but i do have my cpu delided so i don't need as much airflow as you might atm, so this decision only you should take it, as your setup is different. I leave you at the bottom the fan curve of the BL067, sadly i dont have nor i have tested the 1600rpm version.

Since PWM and 1600RPM are the same price as non-PWM and 1000RPM, why should I buy cheaper when at worst it's voltage controlled? They seem to be the same, except one can run faster? Or am I missing something? Also, perhaps in an R5 with dust filters, and my setup I do need the static pressure 1600RPM version.

There is something that caught my eye, however. Look at the core temp differences (this is a 3 stress test run in wPrime 2.10, with 1024M). Between core 1 and core 3, there is 11 C difference max. I'm not sure if normal or not, maybe reapplying TIM and reseating the cooler is a good idea. I have Noctua NT-H1 readily available.

Any advice on how to put just enough? AFAIK if you put too little you will hurt the cooling a lot, but if you put too much it will have marginal differences. I'm just not sure how to get the size right.

I also had something else in mind. In my Define R5, I still have the HDD cage that supports 3 HDDs in place, just for 1 HDD. I'm wondering if I can somehow remove the HDD cage, as it would open up the case for more potential airflow. The downside is that whatever other mounting methods exist, they're probably not as good as those trays, for anti-vibration purposes etc.


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:53 am 
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As I understand it, you have 2 x intake fans and 1 x exhaust. I think the biggest step forward you can take is to remove the ModuVent from the rear top exhaust and put a fan there. To try it, at no cost, you could consider putting the second rear fan of the NH-D15 there, or putting the D15 fan in the current rear exhaust position and moving that fan to the top rear. This I think you will find will be more beneficial than anything that can be done with the intake fans.

If it works but you would still prefer 2 fans on the CPU cooler a further PWM fan of your choice could be substituted. Personally I would go for the Noctua Redux 1200 PWM NF-P14s, this will idle from around 300 rpm. If you compare it to the stock Fractal Design fan, the FD voltage fan has a range of around 450 - 1000 rpm; the Redux 1200 PWM fan gives you both a lower idle and a higher top speed.


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:22 am 
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lodestar wrote:
As I understand it, you have 2 x intake fans and 1 x exhaust. I think the biggest step forward you can take is to remove the ModuVent from the rear top exhaust and put a fan there. To try it, at no cost, you could consider putting the second rear fan of the NH-D15 there, or putting the D15 fan in the current rear exhaust position and moving that fan to the top rear. This I think you will find will be more beneficial than anything that can be done with the intake fans.

If it works but you would still prefer 2 fans on the CPU cooler a further PWM fan of your choice could be substituted. Personally I would go for the Noctua Redux 1200 PWM NF-P14s, this will idle from around 300 rpm. If you compare it to the stock Fractal Design fan, the FD voltage fan has a range of around 450 - 1000 rpm; the Redux 1200 PWM fan gives you both a lower idle and a higher top speed.

Yes, that is my current fan setup.

I'm not so sure about your proposal though. IIRC it's ill advised for silence purposes to remove any of the ModuVents. And removing the second fan from the DH-15, well, that's nerfing the NH-D15's capabilities and overall air flow I would say. It honestly seems like something that wouldn't work in my opinion.

I still like the SW3 1600RPM for the CPU cooler, potentially, unless I can be swayed otherwise. I can't seem to be able to find anything else that's better for silence.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:13 pm 
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ThePrussianPrince wrote:
I still like the SW3 1600RPM for the CPU cooler, potentially, unless I can be swayed otherwise. I can't seem to be able to find anything else that's better for silence.
Remember the NH-D15 usues 140mm fan that have 120mm mounting holes, so SW3 BL067 or the 1600rpm version wont mount with the stock holes, Bequiet does have those type of fans, but i never seen them sold individually in the US. I would still think you wont get much improvement, the NF-A15 PWM that comes on the NH-D15 is 1500rpm, its going to be very similar overall. If you want more cooling power at the expense of noise, Thermalright TY-143, it can be droped to 600rpm and ramp to 2500rpms, past 1000 to me its very noticeble, above 2k it goes ballistic but among the most capable fans that you can mount on the middle of the NH-D15.

Atm im trying to cool down a i9 9900K but its very hard at stock, but i ordered a NH-D15S and will give a shot with the stock and TY143 + adding a couple NF-A12x25 PWM on the front and back, probably there wont be anything else i can do besides that on air.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:50 am 
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Abula wrote:
ThePrussianPrince wrote:
I still like the SW3 1600RPM for the CPU cooler, potentially, unless I can be swayed otherwise. I can't seem to be able to find anything else that's better for silence.
Remember the NH-D15 usues 140mm fan that have 120mm mounting holes, so SW3 BL067 or the 1600rpm version wont mount with the stock holes, Bequiet does have those type of fans, but i never seen them sold individually in the US. I would still think you wont get much improvement, the NF-A15 PWM that comes on the NH-D15 is 1500rpm, its going to be very similar overall. If you want more cooling power at the expense of noise, Thermalright TY-143, it can be droped to 600rpm and ramp to 2500rpms, past 1000 to me its very noticeble, above 2k it goes ballistic but among the most capable fans that you can mount on the middle of the NH-D15.

Atm im trying to cool down a i9 9900K but its very hard at stock, but i ordered a NH-D15S and will give a shot with the stock and TY143 + adding a couple NF-A12x25 PWM on the front and back, probably there wont be anything else i can do besides that on air.

You are right about the mounting actually. That is a bummer, I remember reading about that.

As for CPU coolers, I don't think I'd go dual tower again. They are simply too big for little gain, and cost more. Also, they're not always better from what I have read.

Don't the Noctua NH-U14S and Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power have similar noise and cooling performance compared to something like the NH-D15 and be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4? Wonder how the regular Dark Rock 4 does actually as well, the reviews for that seem odd.

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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:15 am 
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ThePrussianPrince wrote:
Don't the Noctua NH-U14S and Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power have similar noise and cooling performance compared to something like the NH-D15 and be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4? Wonder how the regular Dark Rock 4 does actually as well, the reviews for that seem odd.
At the top of the air coolers, most perform very similar, specially at high rpms, i seen 2 or 3 degree difference between high end coolers, at some point heat transfer on small dies and area contact has its diminishing return, with these limitations at some points its just brute force of the fan, here is a test i just did yesterday trying to cool down a 9900k with an HR22.


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 Post subject: Re: How to reduce noise in my setup (and 140mm fan choices)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:46 am 
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Abula wrote:
At the top of the air coolers, most perform very similar, specially at high rpms, i seen 2 or 3 degree difference between high end coolers, at some point heat transfer on small dies and area contact has its diminishing return, with these limitations at some points its just brute force of the fan, here is a test i just did yesterday trying to cool down a 9900k with an HR22.


Right, then there are 2 options that I can see:

1. Buy a high end single tower cooler. I like this because you only need 1 fan on it, and the differences between single tower and dual tower are marginal. So, I guess something like a NH-U14S, True Spirit 140 Power (if it can fit, afaik it is very tall), or a BQ Dark Rock 4. I'm not sure which one I like the most out of these, but for the price/performance, the Thermalright is definitely the best. Again, I'm curious about how good the other single tower solutions I mentioned are. TS Direct seems to be pretty good, but not as good as Power.

2. Buy a high end dual tower cooler. Something like a NH-D15, BQ DRP4. I would assume there is a difference in how much they cool, but I've seen a review of say, DR4 vs DRP4 and they are exactly the same in terms of noise and temperature. Quite odd because one of them is more expensive. As for NH-U14S, I've seen that in some reviews it's even with a NH-D15, in others there is even as much as an 8C difference. It doesn't make sense to me, something is clearly off.

Not talking about me of course, just in general. I already have the NH-D15 anyway.

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