"quiet" motherboard technology

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:57 pm

I've been looking into fan control technology on the motherboard. Two manufacturers, QDI http://www.qdigrp.com/qdisite/eng/products/p4i875p.htm and Fujitsu-Siemens http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/rl/perip ... 1688.html# both provide motherboards that will shut down the fans at low temps and/or low system utilisation.

This is a desirable feature for me as I am designing an HTPC and am looking for a strong set of features, yet want complete silence when the system is idle. SilentMaxx (www.silentmaxx.de) also provides a PSU with fan control by the Fujitsu-Siemens motherboard.

At the same time, I have not seen any comments about these products in forums. Availability seems to be limited, which may be the cause.

Are there opinions about these products?

crypt0r · Post by **crypt0r** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:41 pm

Speedfan is software that does just that. It isn't what you're looking for (built-in on the mobo), but it works. It's also free. As far as I know, it has its own algorithm in controlling fans and deciding which temps to correspond to which % fan use. Asus A7N8X has QFan on the motherboard. I haven't tested it, so I can't say much. QFan is only for the CPU fan, I think.

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:11 am

Try AOpen boards with their SilentTek feature -- see the review in the fans & controls section.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:51 am

Not exactly sure what you mean with idle.
Perhaps you can enter a real powersave mode on the HTPC when you don't need it. Most motherboards can go into S3 mode and still wake from LAN, keyboard etc.
In S3 mode you have no power to the CPU, but everything is suspended to RAM, so startup is instant. Your board will probably bring down all fans to a halt in S3 mode.
Do a search for S3 on this forum to find out more.
Another even more powersaving mode is S5 (often called hibernation). This gives total power save, but startup is not immediate as all of RAM has been written to harddrive. You can not wakt up on LAN/keyboard etc from S5.

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:02 am

Interesting. I was unaware of Speedfan, and it looks good. I currently have used a couple of MOBO fan speed controllers (Winbond and ABIT) in addition to the coolermaster Aerogate II.

The AOpen SilenTek feature looks a lot like ABIT's (or vice versa). And the Asus fan controller seems similar as well. All of them allow for variable speed fan control, but not shut off.

For the HTPC I am expecting to leave it on most if not all of the time. It will act as a media server, PVR, line doubler and multi-format DVD player. I am expecting to configure it to an S3 suspend to shut it down after a period of non-use, but I fully expect significant low-use periods and 'non-use' or idle periods where I was hoping to have no fans operating and therefore no noise at all.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:10 am

OzWiz:
but I fully expect significant low-use periods and 'non-use' or idle periods where I was hoping to have no fans operating and therefore no noise at all.

Just to make sure you know what you are dealing with:
With absolutely no forced airflow at all, in a more or less normal chassi you will be able to run a VIA C3 1GHz and not much more.
A typical HTPC will have lots of things that heat up more than the VIA C3.
With all fans off you will get problems with heat building up in CPU, GPU, NB, PSU, RAM, MOSFET to mention a few of the more critical.
To achieve a working solution you have to select your hardware very carefully, so my question is what hardware do you have in mind?

I am not saying it can't be done, and I am in the process of building something slighly similar (not HTPC), and have put much though in how things will work and what won't work.
Hopefully I will have the first few test results posted before newyear.

I aim to be able to handle at least light load passively, with the goal to be able to run anything passively, including Prime95. Final goal is that computer should not contain any moving parts. Cost for all parts should still be under $1000.

CharlieChan · Post by **CharlieChan** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:35 am

OzWiz wrote: The AOpen SilenTek feature looks a lot like ABIT's (or vice versa). And the Asus fan controller seems similar as well. All of them allow for variable speed fan control, but not shut off.

I do not know much about the Aopen (yet) but I have tried all the other motheboards you have listed. Most just turn the fan to a lower setting, ~8V, when the CPU temp is below a threshold and back to 12V above the threshold. The fujitsu is more complicated, the lowest CPU fan setting is about 7V and rise linearly to 12V. It is also possible to turn the ALL the fans attached to the motherboard off. This feature is not as useful as you think as the fan speeds up from stop before slowing down again. The fujitsu motherboard I have is a D1527 P4 motherboard.

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:23 am

A good question about the config, something which I am trying to work out. At this point, this is roughly what I am thinking:

Accent or Atech Fab HTPC Case
P4 2.4 processor
ATI 9800 or 9600 passively cooled graphics
Zalman northbridge cooler
Zalman CPU cooler (either 6500 or 7000)
Leadtek 2000XP Deluxe Tuner (need this one for Australia local reqmnts)
multiformat DVD, perhaps Pioneer 106, as I have one and like it
VFD
IR control
two high capacity SATA drives in RAID 1 config (perhaps Seagate)

which leaves the question of the motherboard and PSU. I have an ABIT IC7 MAX3 which I like a lot. I looking for something that is less focused on overclocking and more focused on silence. Candidates are:

*Asus P4P800S-E
*ABIT IS7-G
*QDI 4Pi875P
*Fujitsu Siemens D1688/1683

Lots of choices on the PSU.

SilentMaxx has a 420W PSU that integrates with the D1688 fan control system.

SilentMaxx also has a CPU that will vary fan speed including complete shut off below 45 degrees C

Then there are the classics, Zalman, Fortron, Seasonic, etc.

Thanks for your thoughts.

CharlieChan · Post by **CharlieChan** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:31 am

OzWiz wrote: SilentMaxx has a 420W PSU that integrates with the D1688 fan control system.

Interesting, how does the PSU integrate with fan control system? I can't find anything using google.

Charlie.

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:59 am

The SilentMaxx proSilence ITMC 420W is the PSU that integrates with the Fujitsu Siemens motherboards. The web site is in German, but if you don't read German, you can use the Google translation tools.

http://www.silentmaxx.de/nt_prosilence_itmc.php

They claim 0-18db total on the PSU.

It integrates apparently with any of the FS Premium class motherboards.

silvervarg · Post by **silvervarg** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:08 am

OzWiz:
Accent or Atech Fab HTPC Case
P4 2.4 processor
ATI 9800 or 9600 passively cooled graphics
Zalman northbridge cooler
Zalman CPU cooler (either 6500 or 7000)
Leadtek 2000XP Deluxe Tuner (need this one for Australia local reqmnts)
multiformat DVD, perhaps Pioneer 106, as I have one and like it
VFD
IR control
two high capacity SATA drives in RAID 1 config (perhaps Seagate)

The Atech case is probably the best cooling HTPC case I have ever seen. (Not first time I see a link to this one). It is however quite costly, especially since many of the thing you want costs extra. Well, you probably know all this already.

First item is case. If you dont use any fans when idle or low load and don't use fancy methods like Zalman TNN cases where the entire case is a heatsink, than the only cooling effect left is basicly convection cooling (hot air going up). By having a case with no holes in the top you will almost entierly kill the convection cooling after a short while (as the air in the case heats up).
So in short, it will be kind of impossible to do what you want in this case.

The P4 2.4C is a good choice as processor. I personally will go for AMD, but I think the P4 2.4C is a good chice too.

Going with a rather fast AGP card will become a problem. They put out considerable amount of heat.

CPU cooler. Don't go with 6500. The cooling for all the "flower" heatsinks are not that good. The 7000 on the other hand has amazing cooling abilities even at very low speed (e.g. 5V).

If you want things too look good and don't want to compromise speed and want to be able to place the box neatly among other equipment in a rack or similar, then you should reconsider going completely passive.
I really hate to say this, since I love the idea of passive cooling.
But I think you should try to get the system to go down to very low speed, but still leave at least CPU fan and one case fan or PSU fan spinning at low speed (4-5V). That way you might be able to build an inaudiable system.
You would have to sacrifice a lot if be able to go passive for extended periods of time with what you have in mind.
Kostik has done a very good test with passively cooling a VIA C3 1GHz (among other things) that he has written about on this site. Do search for it and you will get small piece of the picture of what your problems are.

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:48 pm

Your points are well taken.

Will take your advice on the Zalman 7000. I have one in my other machine and like it a lot.

I neglected to mention that I expected to put a case fan in. The Accent allows for two 60cm fans and the Atech for two 70mm. Obviously the bigger the quieter. My other HT components are gold, thus the inclusion of the Accent. Cost is not my first priority. Features and silence are.

I am also considering putting the Holo3DGraph card in the system, which limits me to a full height case.

I perhaps was not clear in stating that I am not looking for a passive cooling system when yhe CPU and system are active .. but an optimized solution. None of the PSUs I am considering are fanless. The SilentMaxx and Engelking (not mentioned earlier) both have fans. It is just that they shut off below 45 deg C, or in the case of the ITMC at a level determined by the Fujitsu Siemens motherboard.

I was hoping to use that functionality of the QDI or FS mobos to shut the fans off when no active processing was going on. When I was using the system more actively, the PSU, CPU and case fans would kick in at variable speeds based on the temperature.

Perhaps this is where I am assuming more benefit than really exists.

re: Video cards. I do not see any issue with using the ATI 9600. I am assuming that will dissipate less heat (true?). Of course the Atech offers the 'Mass-Air' passive cooling for ATI, and there is a passive Zalman cooler for the GPUs as well. I was hoping that one of these would be good enough. Thoughts on this?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:17 pm

Concerning the A-Open boards with Silent-tek......They will keep the fans off till a programable temp is reached. Then they will run at a reduced fan speed, increasing in small stages (again programable) as temps rise. My board can control two different fans this way.

There are other ways to control the fans....Read the SPCR article on the A-Open board. I like my A-Open setup better than any other board I've owned.

OzWiz · Post by **OzWiz** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:34 pm

Thanks a bunch.

I missed the review on the AOpen SilentTek capability, and with your encouragement I looked harder and harder until I found it.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... =64&page=1

This would seem to fit my desires exactly. Now to match it with a PSU ... perhaps the SilentMaxx which I like to call the 'hunchback'

http://silentmaxx.net/catalog/ps_prosilence_420cpcs.php

Expensive, but also capable of switching its fan on / off and has lots of heatsinks. Need to make sure it can fit into the box ...

elric666 · Post by **elric666** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:43 am

Oh God, here I go delurking!
As far as the motherboard selection goes, I have an IS7 and had bought a Zalman northbridge for it but had to return it. The IS7 uses clip mounts for the Northbridge, as opposed to screws. The clip built on to the Northbridge fan it comes with is custom shaped for the fan and can't be reused, and the Zalman does not include that type of mounting clip. So unless you have a source for those types of retention clips, or want to epoxy the heatsink (FYI, there is a very small, raised IC on the northbridge, so there is very little surface area), I would definately recommend looking elsewhere. On that note, if someone does know where to get the clips to put the Zalman on this MBs northbridge, or another non-epoxy way of connecting it I would love to hear of it! Currently this fan is the only annoying sound left in my computer that I haven't been able to get rid of just yet. I've even considered unplugging the fan, but the heatsink is too modest to sufficiently cool the northbridge without forced air.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:56 pm

Hi elric666, if you have the "old style" NB fan you can do this. (Actually a picture of an IC7 but I believe it's identical the the IS7) Blurb about the mod here.
Don't know about the "new style" heatsink, its much bigger and some flow around it may be enough. I did once find a pic of both styles side by side.
Hope this helps,
Seb

elric666 · Post by **elric666** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:17 am

Thanks, I will check mine out and see if that is a possibility, as I do have the newer (green) fan. Mine was one of the lucky ones where they were in short supply of 10/100 chips, so they threw the gigabyte chip on the regular board. Knew I should have pushed harder for that Dremel for Christmas!!!