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 Post subject: Adda fans real loud... arrghhh
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 18
My Lian-Li PC61USB arrived yesterday, including a Zalman ZM300A-APF and a pack of Magic Fleece.

First thing to notice was that the top & back fans are incredibly loud :? ; certainly not what I expected from reading numerous reviews. The front fans are quieter due to a manual speed control, but they have a scratchy sound in them, as if something is obstructing them - could be the ticking sound mentioned here and there associated with slowed down fans.

First thing I want to do is silence these crappy toyish fans, or replace them with something that is (nearly) as quiet as advertised, but I'm not sure with what. I don't want to try every brand from A to Z, although I'm thinking of a combination of one PAPST 8412NGL and one 8412NGMLV (therm. version).

My system is very low key: a passively cooled Slot1 P3-450, Matrox G200 (no HS at all), a 1 platter b'cuda (no enclosure - yet), and the Zalman PSU of course.

Any recommendations?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:15 am 
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Location: Worcester, UK
For case fans in your case, i think youd want NGL papsts at 7V, or panaflo L1A at 5 or 7V. Two up front and two at the back, if you think you need them.

But i think your PSU is gonna be the noisest thing by far if you have ur current setup and the fans above. So maybe have a look at the articles here at SPCR concerning quieting PSUs.

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 Post subject: Thermal control
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 6:44 am 
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Well, to be honest, without those helicopter fans connected, all I hear is the sound of..silence. The Zalman PSU is actually quite amazing. The only thing I can hear is the humming of my.. subwoofer. Any suggestions on silencing a sub... just kidding.

The entire Magic Fleece kit is in place: that's 4 40x40cm mats; three layers thick in some places! With the case open I can hear the Cuda's seeking and writing, closed still audible, but barely.

Now, with the fans in mind I started looking for some sort of thermal set-and-forget management unit. I guess even high-end 80mm 25+ cfm fans @ 12VDC will always be too loud for me no matter what, and I *could* go for the PAPSTs (or ADDAs) @ 7VDC setup, but what bothers me with that is that you never really know your gear is safe with this minimal setting, do you?

The products I looked at so far (all local prices) :

-Cobalt3 Pyramid II (US$43): fancy, microprocessor controlled; not adjustable; nice, compact packaging. Version III will have an audible alarm and "fail-safe" logic switches fans to full-speed in case of failure.
-PCSilent.de "Universal thermo-fan-controller" (US$13) : no frills, adjustable unit; 2 temp. modes, although not sure what they do.
-PCCooler.de "MR-Computertechnik Varioregelung" (US$30): 2 adjustable set-points : fan switches off below min. set-point; fan stays at constant speed beyond max. set-point; variable speed inbetween.
-DigitalDoc5 (US$80): fits in 5.25" bay. programmable switch-on/off set-points for up to 8 fans; no speed throttling, so no viable candidate.
-other various "home-made" PCB's (no pun)

At this moment I think the "MR-Computertechnik Varioregelung" is most appealing for its adjustability and connectivity. Still a lot of stuff to check-out..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:08 am 
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Location: Worcester, UK
A much cheaper (in fact free :P ) way is to use motherboard monitor to monitor your temps. You can then set a max temp. You can tell MBM to run a program if this max temp is reached. Then you select this program to be a program which just shutsdown your computer. I can find a link for the 'shutdown computer' program if you are interested - you might find it with google or on the MBM site.


PS theres this slightly old article at overclockers.com which covers Auto shutdown options.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:09 pm
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Location: Reinheim, Germany
I also use a Lian-Li, in my case the PC60. I just disconnected the ADDA fans completely, they ARE :

1. Loud
2. Don't actually seem to make more than 1 or 2 degrees difference even when running a P4 at 1.8Mhz.

If I were you, i'd just do the same, disconnect the things. With your setup, you could probably run without any fans at all, except for the Power Supply!


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 Post subject: PAPST replaces ADDA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:23 am 
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Well, maybe, but I don't want to take the risk to run fanless, so I ordered 2 PAPSTs : a 8412NGL(top) and a 8412 NGMLV(back). I switched the ADDA's in the front to their lowest speed, so these are almost inaudible from 3ft away.

About our Lian-Li cases: in this recent review @ guru3D, again they claim the Lian-Li fans to be quiet?! In fact, they even praised their case for its quiet fans (the PC6099B - a PC60 variant).

Everything is right, design, silent fans, accessibility, ease of use and even temperature.

I don't get it. I must admit that, according to the pictures in the review, it seems that Lian-Li is using another brand of fans now : ARX. Maybe they got it right this time, although I never heard of the brand, certainly not in a "quiet computing" context.

A NoVibes was added to complete my order to eliminate the remainder of the typical "krrrrr" hd sounds.

I installed the Motherboard Monitor software a while ago only to find out that my mobo doesn't have the required goodies aboard (rpm and temp monitoring).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 3:19 am 
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Location: Worcester, UK
I think peoples 'idea' of quiet depends on what they expect from fans really. On the Hardforums a couple of days ago someone said 'get a quiet fan like a panaflo H1A or maybe U1A'. For some people H1As are quiet compared to the fans they normally use (Deltas probably). I wouldnt say even an L1A is quiet unless its undervolted - like most people round here i guess :P So its just a case a judging peoples backgrounds as to whether your perception of quiet is gonna be similar to theirs :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:09 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Reinheim, Germany
My Lian-Li UC60 is the older model (now 18 months old), without USB connectors in the front panel. The newer models not only have USB, they also have a fan outlet on the top panel, so 4 fans in all, totally OTT.

The ADDA fans are only loud when running at full speed, if you set the speed controller switch on the front panel to it's lowest setting, they don't make any real noise at all, at least not in my particular case. The rear panel fan I never really bothered with at all. I've now disconnected ALL case fans as they only make a noticable difference to the internal temperature when running at full blast, and then the're TOO loud.

Even with the P4 (Zalman cooled) and the Radeon 8500, my internal temps never go higher than 36C and that's in the height of summer when we're getting temperatures in the 40C region. The CPU even on the lowest setting also never exceeds 42C and that's after hours of running at 100% CPU when ripping DVD's !!!!


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 Post subject: to connect or disconnect
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2002 8:37 am 
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Posts: 18
I just wished I could do that, Tulip. I decided for the two fans just to play safe, since I don't have any means of checking the internal temperatures.

Assuming that I won't hear the 12dB PAPST @ 12V at the top, I hope that it will duct most of the rising hot air out of my case. Then, the thermo controlled fan in the rear will handle the rest. If my assumption is right, the rear fan will have little or nothing to do and spin at it's min. speed (10dB); and if I'm wrong..well at least I'm covered.

Anyway, I think it's high time to purchase a temp. monitor (or buy a recent mobo with hardwired sensors, which leads me to a new CPU, new DIMMs, and so forth). Then I might be able to switch off those fans -one by one- just like you.

Next on my todo list is a gfx card to replace my aging Matrox G200.
A fanless Radeon 9000 might a good candidate, but Linux support for its featureset looks a bit bothersome.


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 18
Ok, got myself a dual digital thermometer device.

There are no fans connected right now. Ambient room temp. is around 22.5 degrees Celsius - not a hot day to our standards.

With the sensor attached directly to the CPU HS and the monitored machine more or less freewheeling with MemTest running, the temperature has gone up already to 42.9 degrees, and still rising. One side panel is open. Hard drive is idle too.

Not sure though how much heat it can take. I think I'm about to switch it off soon and I'll just have to wait a bit until the PAPST fans arive.

Oh - tried this yesterday on one of the disassembled ADDA's.

Makes a difference of course, although not satisfactory, but my biggest surprise was when I removed the fingerguard. Now *that* was an improvement! Those little thingies are a pain. I'll leave the top one w/o guard, because it's hard for anything to hit the fan in that position.

Fetched a chromed one from a donor machine and you win a few dB. Another concern is vibration. As soon as I bring the fan in position it becomes a turbine. I wonder in what matter silicone based mounting rings and ducts might help?


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 Post subject: PAPST installed
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2002 3:13 pm 
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The PAPST fans arrived today: one 8412NGL and one 8412 NGMLV.

They are virtually silent out of the case, but the biggest problem is vibration and turbulence as I found out.

Even the PAPST make the case tremble, so I decided to do the 7-volt trick. Although these fans operate in the 8-12V range, they start with 7V just fine. Even mounted they are EXTREMELY quiet now.


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