Fan Isolators experience (good report)

bobash · Post by **bobash** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:49 pm

I have an antec case that had the purple snap in fan mounts. I removed them and used the blue fan isolators in the square fan mount holes. The big part of the isolators will hold in the square holes -- but I can only use 3 of the 4 fan mounting points because the square holes are spaced farther apart. It holds pretty well.

spudston · Post by **spudston** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:48 pm

The problem with the Silicon Acoustics mounts isn't so much the $4.50 price but the $6.80 they want to ship them to me. That's ridiculous for something that probably weighs an ounce or so. I think I'll try making my own mounts out of silicone sealant, I have plenty of that already.

siliconacoustics · Post by **siliconacoustics** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:01 am

spudston,
UPS charges the 1 pound rate to ship anything under 1 pound. This is why the isolators are "ridiculous" to ship. Also, they charge the same to ship something worth 1 cent as they do to ship something worth $100.00.

If you don't need a tracked shipment with guaranteed delivery then we are happy to ship via first class mail for under a buck.

See in our FAQ: http://www.siliconacoustics.com/firstclassmail.html

Jonathan
Silicon Acoustics
http://siliconacoustics.com

simmers · Post by **simmers** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:10 am

The number for the UK distributor for the EAR elastomer thingies is Energy Control Products on 01238-200099. Haven't rung them yet to find out where to buy in the UK.

Kool'n'quiet in the UK also lists some 'flexinuts' and Papst flexible fan mounts, but there are no pics.

http://www.koolnquiet.co.uk/index.php?m ... 9&start=11

Anyone used either of these?

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:55 am

has anyone got anywhere on suppliers yet? specifically in the uk?
i do think the silicon acoustics price is a little steep for for small pieces of rubber/plastic. although the amount of people i have seen trying to offload standard rubber washers as specialist devices is a little offensive.

cheers

simmers · Post by **simmers** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:37 am

Hmmm, just rang that number and 01238 doesn't exist!

Will try and find out the right number and also ask Kool'n'Quiet about the products mentio'n'd above...

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:49 am

01993 - 878703 is the real number. i have sent them an email asking if they are the correct ones or just washers. ill let you know if i get a response.

fetaost · Post by **fetaost** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:25 pm

I use cheap rubber bands that are about 1/4" wide. I just tie some kind of knot in the middle of it and put one end in the case and one in the fan. The knot keeps the distance between them. It's a bit tricky to get it in but it seems like that this always is a problem. =)

seishino · Post by **seishino** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:42 pm

siliconacoustics wrote:If you don't need a tracked shipment with guaranteed delivery then we are happy to via first class mail for under a buck.

See in our FAQ: http://www.siliconacoustics.com/firstclassmail.html

You should probably advertise that a little more! You don't know how many times I've needed to get a tiny, cheap little part from someone and the only option was to ship it UPS... Like shipping a 5 dollar USB cable to Argentina for 60 bucks. I'd be far more inclined to impulse purchase a load of fan isolaters without paying the exorbatent UPS charge, even assuming %10 of USPS packages never arrive.

rbmcgee · Post by **rbmcgee** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 2:40 pm

I'm wondering why you couldn't just use 2-sided foam tape to stick the fan to the case and do away with all the attachments. Wouldn't this work well? Could the tape stand up to the heat inside a case?

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:09 am

i have found no suppliers yet to the uk, and certainly none of them at reasonable prices, so i took fetaost's advice and spent 60p on a giant bag of rubber bands, i have mounted all my fans with them and there is now, NO vibrations being passed to the case by them (not least that i can feel) i would heartily advise this method. it is far cheaper and i have found a way that makes it very simple indeed, i shall detail it here if anyone would care to hear it. however in short i found using two 1/8" of an inch/ 3mm ish thick bands for each mounting point was far easier than one fatter band. and i joined each two together to form a large central knot to be the buffer between the case and the fan.
each fan took perhaps 5 minutes to fit, with the exception of the psu as that ones a little more complicated. all in all im prety happy with the results and theres a reasonable difference to using foam washerd and bolts, but at least this time i can feel no transmitted vibrations.

i now am looking at how to mount my cpu fan over the zalman cooler with elastic bands and then a way to mount the video cards replacement fan. if anyone has any tips id be very grateful.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:11 am

Just be careful because rubber bands do dry rot, after a few months they have been known to turn brittle and crumble, especially in hot conditions I would think.

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:16 am

good advice, i will keep my eyes on them, although i hope to find a more hard wearing replacement before this becomes an issue.

rbmcgee · Post by **rbmcgee** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:56 am

Well, I just got back from the Home Depot. Was looking at alternative case fan connection solutions.

FWIW, I do believe the 2-sided foam tape will work. I've chosen "3M's Heavy-Duty Attachment Adhesive". Package says hold 2 lbs. (more than enough especially for intake fans) and temperature resistent from -20 to +200F (more than enough for the inside of a PC) and specifically states 'resists vibrations' and mentions plastic and metal as appropriate surfaces. It's 2-sided pressure sensitive about 1/2mm thick. As I see it, there are 3 advantages:
- will/should isolate vibrations
- allows flexibility to attach almost any size fan to almost any size opening without drilling new holes.
- completely separates the fan case from the side of the case (by about 1/2 mm).

But, I think I've found an even better solution. Little pressure sensitive squares of velcro. You probably know what I'm talking about but, each connection requires 2 sides. One side is the hook and 1 side is the loop. Place one of the sides against the case wall and the other on the fan case and then simply velcor them together. An additional suggestion might be to glue (with appropriate glue) each side down so that adhesive deterioration doesn't occur. The velcro squares do not mention either max. lbs., (but that shouldn't be a problem cause velcro is strong) or temperature resistence (but that shouldn't be a problem except for the adhesive). Besides the above 3 benefits, it also allows for easy fan removal/change. The tape option may be difficult to un-stick.

I have not yet looked at the CPU fan options.

Thoughts?

seishino · Post by **seishino** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:58 am

rbmcgee wrote:I'm wondering why you couldn't just use 2-sided foam tape to stick the fan to the case and do away with all the attachments. Wouldn't this work well? Could the tape stand up to the heat inside a case?

It depends on the location, actually. My CPU fan is (gasp) stuck to the bottom of the PSU by double-sided tape, and holds there strongly enough to withstand light (though not heavy) case bumping. I also use double-sided tape to separate casefans from the aluminum of the case, though securing with screws prooved necessary as the fans lacked the requisite surface area to attach firmly from their face. Perhaps by taping an L-brace to the fan, then taping that to the case, they could be secured? Some investigation is warranted, though right now I'm investigating two other things...

mynci · Post by **mynci** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:02 am

i think the tape is certainly an excellent idea, although im not certain it would remove all the vibrations. i went through several types of foam before getting one that took all the hdd vibrations out. do you get any transference of vibrations?
as to the velcro, certainly an ingenious solution but does it give you much damping? how often do you remove the fans anyway?
just my two pence.

piglet · Post by **piglet** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:11 am

Fan isolators in the uk: http://www.gelmec.co.uk/

I have been in contact with these people. They supply isolators for fans, hdds, and most other things. Contact them for prices, as these are not on the web site. They have sent some samples to silentpcreview, so I expect a review will follow.

jafb2000 · Post by **jafb2000** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:56 am

Re fan mounting systems...

o Gap between the fan inlet & outlet short-circuits airflow
---- in particular it collapses static pressure capability
---- thus you are left with impingement cooling on nearby hot objects
---- obviously for some applications this doesn't matter too much

More an issue for simple grommets without sealing the air-gap.

o Nearly everyone overtightens the fan mountings
---- simple vinyoleum or rubber sheet makes a perfect mount
---- soundproofing Sound Barrier Mat is mass loaded 5kg/m^2
---- hard to get in small pieces, but soft enough to work & dense
---- proper PAPST foam gaskets are junk, the rubber ones ok but silly $$$

Want an elastomeric solution which works just fine?
That's completely cheap as in about 50-60p & available at any chemist?

No, not *that* item available from any chemist.
EARfit ear plugs, roll them into a thin cylinder from in front of the case
and insert thro the case then fan. Difficult, but might actually work ok.

Remember that junk Akasa soundproofing foam (no Barrer Mass Mat)?
Actually useful for making fan gaskets with a knife and cutting board.
Again, don't overtighten at all, let the fan "rest" on the foam cushioning.

Very old point, use nylon fasteners where possible re noise propagration.
M4 aren't that pricey and longer can be cut shorter if need be.

Finally, soundproofing comes from 1) treating cause, 2) then effect;
and in particular mass for low-frequency & resonance from excitation,
closed-cell (not open) foam for high-frequency absorption.

com · Post by **com** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:09 am

Here's a good place to them from in the UK:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/product.php?subcat=39

Katana Man · Post by **Katana Man** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:45 pm

Question: Do rubber grommets will work just as good as the E.A.R. fan isolators?

Answer: The answer is no.
Even if the grommets were made from that same material as the E.A.R. fan isolators, the answer would still be no.

Why? Because grommets are used in conjunction with metal screws. Even though you may be using multiple grommets, the shaft of the metal screw can touch the fan and the case hole. This will pass the vibrations.

Theoretically, there is a slight chance that grommets would actually isolate some vibrations if the shaft of the 4 screws is perfectly centered and not touching the fan or the case hole. However, in order for this to happen, the screws would have to be tightened down to the point where the positioning would never change. Having it this tight is also taking away the ability for the rubber to do much vibration absorption.

And that my friends, is why the E.A.R. fan isolators are superior. Not only do they separate the fan from touching the case, but the mounting shaft is not metal.

I wrote this post for 2 reasons.
#1. I've had first hand experience with the fan isolators, and they are awesome! I will never use any metal to mount my fans again.
#2. I was tired of reading about people thinking that screws with grommets are just as good.

I know many of you grommet users may take some offense to this post because you've invested in them, but I've got to break it to you, it can get even better if you use E.A.R. fan isolators.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:13 am

Katana Man,

These are the same fan isolators that can be purchased at silicon acoustics?

jafb2000 · Post by **jafb2000** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:03 am

Correct, grommets are a poor solution:
o They are meant to prevent abrasion of cables
o Their hardness is unsuitable for vibration absorption

- Vis., if you fan is vibrating with an amplitude-size & frequency low
enough that grommets help, your problem is the fan not the mounting.

Industry usually stuffs fans in "how swap" caddies that simply clip into
slots with huge tolerances and so rattle & buzzing the eventual result,
if the "hunting" from inline fan motors doesn't drive you mad first.
They need to rubber coat the tangs that intersect, not much more $.

Yes, proper mounts work, but it's a pity they are so pricey.
In a Qty of 1,000 they should be about 9-11c, but they're not.

Quieter fans need them less, but those after silence need them more;
fan dB(A) figures are for free air - fitted is very different if you over
tighten fasteners or have a vibrating fan. Fluid bearings help, but so
does the mounting system. Nylon both is another system, but it is
not as effective whilst costing a similar amount per fan & time.

Katana Man · Post by **Katana Man** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:30 pm

Wedge wrote:Katana Man,

These are the same fan isolators that can be purchased at silicon acoustics?

Yes.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:47 pm

Katana Man wrote:
Wedge wrote:Katana Man,

These are the same fan isolators that can be purchased at silicon acoustics?
Yes.

Thank you. My order has been placed for 2 sets of 4.

bondiablo · Post by **bondiablo** » Sat May 17, 2003 7:23 pm

This looks like it may be a good place to get them in the US (search for fan mount), package of 20 for $10, but which is the correct size to use with case fans?

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat May 17, 2003 8:15 pm

Hello:

bondiablo wrote:This looks like it may be a good place to get them in the US (search for fan mount), package of 20 for $10, but which is the correct size to use with case fans?

The K6 (the smaller one, IIRC) is the one that fits most fans. I got them from McMaster-Carr, and they worked very well, though on my Evercase 4252, then NMB's sit a little loose -- which is not a problem. The barbs in the fan are snug; it's the holes in the case that are loose. They made an big improvement on noisier fans, and a smaller improvement on the NMB's, which are already pretty darn quiet!

There are lots (well several) other threads on this, if you need more info.

nicov · Post by **nicov** » Sun May 18, 2003 12:30 am

If you live in Europe, you can buy Verax fan isolators from www.noisecontrol.de. They ship outside Germany (COD) .
I 'm very satisfied with these isolators and use them for mounting all my fans. I wonder how they compare to the other brands of fan isolators (review topic?). I think they're entirely made of rubber and are VERY easy to install. After some practice, I can mount a fan with four of these things in about 1 minute. [/img]

bondiablo · Post by **bondiablo** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:41 pm

fan depth is irrelevant since the isolators only go through the holes in the side of the fan closest to the mounting surface.

Siili · Post by **Siili** » Mon Jun 16, 2003 1:04 am

Found isolators in Finland at www.only4pro.com (picture www.web-jussi.com/cgi-bin/sql/tuoteesite.pl?id=23853 ).
Not sure they are as elastic as they ones you speak of, but ordered some to see. Not too expensive since I was ordering something else from there too.

o Gap between the fan inlet & outlet short-circuits airflow

Does this mean there shouldn't be any gap between the fan and the case opening it's sucking/blowing through? If you use the isolators, what have you used to fill the gap?