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 Post subject: T-Balancer
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:39 am 
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Location: Coventry, UK
Howdo,

I checked all the FAQs which seemed relevant and I don't think this is covered, apologies if I'm incorrect.

Right, I've got my system all set up and most of the fans in my Fractal Designs R2 on PWM. Basically I got a splitter and the three apache blacks (two on the megahalems and one on the exhaust) are all run off the CPU fan header on the motherboard (figured this would make a decent wind tunnel effect and to be fair my CPU sits nicely below a 20 degree delta most of the time). The other four 140mm and two 120mm case fans (oh no hang on, one 140mm is run from the motherboard) are all run from the front panel I bought. [Don't worry I'm getting to the point]

The thing is I had to buy a fan controller with a flat face and I only had one optical drive slot to accommodate it. So I ended up going for the NZXT Sentry 2 fan controller and ever after my computer has made more noise.

Now at first I figured the fans didn't like the controller (I've got mainly the Fractal Designs white fans 120mm and 140mm versions) but even at 100% the fans still seemed to be emitting an audible low hum which I'm fairly sure wasn't present before. The "proof" seems to be that when I switch the fans off with the fan controller my whole system goes very quiet (which is the whole aim).

So the long and the short of it is, am I correct in thinking it's probably the fan controller (do they change a fans motor noise characteristics) and does this t-balancer whatsit do the job?

I've been looking around at the HFX112 and theHFX220 but I can't seem to find any reviews (not one's I'd trust anyhow). I'm curious as to whether when they say 2 channel they mean 'only connect 2 fans' or if they mean '2 channels for separate fan speeds' so I can connect 12 fans say, 2 lots of 6 in series and each set operating at it's own speed. Also if the previous fan controller gave me a low hum how do you tell without buying the darn things if they'll cause similar problems?

[I'll go post my specs in a signature or something... I've only just joined so I've yet to set everything up]

Anyhow, thanks for making it this far (slow day?) I'd appreciate it if someone could either point out how come I'm an idiot and it's all okay or if there's something to be done.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:13 am 
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I guess I should go more into the point of the cooling setup.

I used to water cool but after a few leaks (shall we say 3 or 4 rebuilds due to leaks!!!) I went back to air cooling.

What I'm trying to do (without spending a ton of cash) is build an aircooling setup which responds to the heat of the components.

I first started out mounting everything on the motherboards headers and set it up through the BIOS to respond to temperatures. However it seems the minimum temperature they will register is like 60 degrees Celsius (which is to my mind when it's already far too hot) and the controls were too basic. I bought the Sentry 2 to cover that problem so that the case would receive a higher throughput of air when various components were getting too hot. That part of the mission statement they do achieve but the extra noise was something I wasn't counting on.

Before, with it all mounted to the motherboard, the system was quiet but half the fans never span up regardless of the heat of the CPU which lead to another 5 degrees or so on the CPU temp. What I'm hoping the t-balancer controls are capable of doing is keeping the whole temperature responsiveness of the aircooling but without the added noise. I'm not sure if I'm asking too much of aircooling though or if I should be looking into software solutions.

I did try the Asus fan control program but I tended to find that if I've got any Asus programs installed it leads to system instability so I removed all of them. The probe program seems to be the worst.

So if I connected the whole set up to one of those t-balancers am I right in thinking it will then coordinate the whole system to respond to a set of temperature readings? Does it take a pwm input from the motherboard and then use additional power to run more fans off that signal? Is there any way I can do that or better?

Ideally I'd like to be able to set a bell curve starting out at whatever temperature I'd like and increasing the voltage to the fans as the temperature rises. That way I can be sure that my system remains as quiet as possible but without risking overheating anything. I am betting though that such a solution would be expensive....

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:03 am 
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The question is what do you mean with "T-Balancer". It is a whole family of products.
  1. bigNG - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produ ... _bigng.htm - this is what i use, all it uses from motherboard is one USB connection for software control via their own software + one 4-pin molex from PSU
  2. miniNG - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/Modelle.htm - you can use one of their predefined modes via jumpers, or connect it to the bigNG and control it via software and bigNG
  3. classic - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_xl.htm - never seen these on market, so i can't comment about them. Neither about http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_ya.htm nor about http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_1kanal.htm


I have and use bigNG, and i'm very satisfied with it, except the software is a bit unfriendly sometimes and drives me mad with "Turning off the software will stop controlling your fans" message at windows shutdown :). Plus you need to install the newer drivers from FTDI site, the ones supplied with bigNG software are not good for W7.

Edit: Link to the screenshots of software app they have for bigNG :
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_sw.htm

And this is probably what do you want :
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produk31.JPG


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:25 am 
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faugusztin wrote:
The question is what do you mean with "T-Balancer". It is a whole family of products.

bigNG - I did look at this and thought that £60 was a tad on the expensive side but figured that if it'd do the whole system it'd be worth it. It does only list 4 channels though which brings me back to the question of would I really need several of these in series to run all the fans I've got? 1x£60 I could possibly swallow if it's the bee's knees but 2 or 3x £60 it'd have to significantly improve overall system performance (and I'm not talking draft control) to be something I'd consider.

miniNG - I looked at this also but had a similar reaction to the paultry 2 channels. Admittedly I'm thinking in terms of rheostats here where I expect like 6 before I'll consider it as an addition to my PC. I'd hate to have had like 5 fan controllers on my old Cosmos-S setup with ten fans for example!

HFX220 (http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/produc ... es/hfx-220)
Not sure if this is the "classic" to which you refer but as Quiet PC was my first port of call I looked at this one too and I'm still slightly confused as to why there are two devices (this and the miniNG) which to my untrained eyes seem very similar and at similar prices. Surely a company would produce one such device to minimise production costs?

faugusztin wrote:
I have and use bigNG, and i'm very satisfied with it, except the software is a bit unfriendly sometimes and drives me mad with "Turning off the software will stop controlling your fans" message at windows shutdown :). Plus you need to install the newer drivers from FTDI site, the ones supplied with bigNG software are not good for W7.

Well to be honest I'd forgotten about speedfan and slapped my head after having posted this thread but after having downloaded it at work the interface is still as impenetrable to me as ever. I might give that a go instead of a hardware solution but I remain dubious of any software where there's a percentage control which seems to relate to fan speed (one would assume from the title) on the front page but it seems to do nothing without further work/ analysis. I know it's free software but if they didn't think of the user then what's the chances that the rest of the program is similarly based around thinking the same as the programmer did when he wrote it?

Oh btw, you ever had a fan controller cause a hum? I've even manually stopped the fans and that seems to cut the noise too but before they were perfectly silent at like 50%. It just seems weird. I could understand the resistors squealing but it's the fans producing the noise! Well as far as I can tell.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:42 am 
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1) Do you need to have 6 separate speeds, or you can get some fans to Y fan splitter and have them both run at same speed ? That way you could have 4 fans controlled as 2 fans, and the remaining 2 would be both alone.

2) The hum you are talking about is possible if you use PWM control.

3) The product you linked is the FanAmp :
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_1kanal.htm

It is a one channel fan controller, which can take the signal from motherboard (one fan connector) and make the limited motherboard control much broader for the fan connected to the 2nd fan connector.

So for 6 fans, you would need 6 of these, and you would be still at level of standard fan controller or even worse.

Seriously, if you want a perfect software control, you want bigNG for 4 fans (or more if you use Y splitters), or bigNG + miniNG if you want 6 fans.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:44 am 
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faugusztin wrote:
1) Do you need to have 6 separate speeds, or you can get some fans to Y fan splitter and have them both run at same speed ? That way you could have 4 fans controlled as 2 fans, and the remaining 2 would be both alone.

I'm probably going to make an ass out of myself for asking this but wouldn't that end up with less voltage overall to each fan?

Probably nit picking but heck if I didn't do that I'd leave my perfectly functional PC alone and walk away. I think I reinstalled everything once under the suspicion that a different drive arrangement would be faster only to find no real difference.
faugusztin wrote:
2) The hum you are talking about is possible if you use PWM control.

I'm fairly sure the fan controller isn't using PWM. The fans certainly aren't PWM.

Oddly enough the ones I have got on PWM (the apaches) are effectively silent.... it's the other's which are giving me grief...
faugusztin wrote:
3) The product you linked is the FanAmp :
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_1kanal.htm

It is a one channel fan controller, which can take the signal from motherboard (one fan connector) and make the limited motherboard control much broader for the fan connected to the 2nd fan connector.

So for 6 fans, you would need 6 of these, and you would be still at level of standard fan controller or even worse.

Right... thanks for that. That avoids one mistake I was previously verging on making.
faugusztin wrote:
Seriously, if you want a perfect software control, you want bigNG for 4 fans (or more if you use Y splitters), or bigNG + miniNG if you want 6 fans.

2 intake 120mms
2 intake 140mms
2 interior 120mms
1 exhaust 120mm
2 exhaust 140mms

That's why I was hoping to avoid the bigNG... if I ever replace the vapor-X cooler I'd be even more stuffed! I could potentially end up with 11 fans and that m-cubed path looks prohibitively expensive.

Damn this fan control stuff is an expensive business....

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:03 am 
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No, the Y cable doesn' split the voltage in half, it only makes the current draw higher because you got two fans instead of one (they are connected in parallel, not serial).

And sorry, but there is no case which needs 4 intake and 3 outtake fans, period. 4-6 fans (including the internal ones, excluding the CPU fan) are really the maximum any case needs.

Unortunately for you, there is pretty much zero other choice - you either have bigNG+miniNG stuff, or you control all via motherboard (limited to 2-5 fans in most cases), or you control all manually via some analog fan controller.

You should seriously lower the number of your fans - 2 intakes on Y with same speed, 2 outtakes on Y with same speed, 2 fans on Y for graphics card (+Accelero S1 or MK-13 or other cooler) on same speed, and you still got one reserve fan connector, either for CPU fan or some other fan.

True, i don't have a OC'd CPU, but i5 750 with Mega Shadow + HD5870 + passive GT240 (running F@H all the time when computer is turned on) probably generate more heat than your setup, and still i have no problems cooling it with 2 intakes and 2 outtakes, running at 3.8-4.0V most time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:09 am 
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faugusztin wrote:
No, the Y cable doesn' split the voltage in half, it only makes the current draw higher because you got two fans instead of one (they are connected in parallel, not serial).

And sorry, but there is no case which needs 4 intake and 3 outtake fans, period. 4-6 fans (including the internal ones, excluding the CPU fan) are really the maximum any case needs.

Unortunately for you, there is pretty much zero other choice - you either have bigNG+miniNG stuff, or you control all via motherboard (limited to 2-5 fans in most cases), or you control all manually via some analog fan controller.

You should seriously lower the number of your fans - 2 intakes on Y with same speed, 2 outtakes on Y with same speed, 2 fans on Y for graphics card (+Accelero S1 or MK-13 or other cooler) on same speed, and you still got one reserve fan connector, either for CPU fan or some other fan.

True, i don't have a OC'd CPU, but i5 750 with Mega Shadow + HD5870 + passive GT240 (running F@H all the time when computer is turned on) probably generate more heat than your setup, and still i have no problems cooling it with 2 intakes and 2 outtakes, running at 3.8-4.0V most time.

Lol.

Need????

If I stuck to need I'd save myself lots of time, heatache, money, stress, hair etc etc... :D

I just prefer it if everything is complaining it's too cold than me concerning myself that the reason I've got a graphics glitch is not driver based but heat based.

Like I said, I should leave it alone but I'm compelled not to. And it'd look daft if I left fan apertures empty now wouldn't it ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:15 am 
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Look, in Define R2 case i have no problems cooling down a passive Atom + ION board (generating heat of 50C 24/7) + 8 hard drives with 3 Noiseblocker Multiframe fans running at minimum allowed by fan controller bundled to the case. The front 2 intakes are ok to have, the outtake 12cm fan is ok to have - but the rest is simply unnecessary. Even in this case, you could manage it with bigNG :
1) 2 front intakes connected via Y cable as bigNG Fan #1 (INTAKE), both having same RPM
2) 2 top outtakes + 1 back outtake connected via two Y cables as Fan #2 (OUTTAKE), all three having same RPM
3) 2 fans on graphics card connected via Y cable as Fan #3 (GPU), both having same RPM
4) the CPU fan connected as Fan #4 if you don't want it to be controlled via motherboard.

That is 2 intake + 3 outtake + 2 GPU + 1 CPU = 8 fans in combination that makes sense, will be over the top to cool down your setup and still be able to be controlled via bigNG.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:08 pm 
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I have the NZXT sentry2, i use it with non pwm fans.It don't support pwm fans since it only have 2 pins on each of the 5 outputs (or molex adaptator).

The NZXT's minimum fan speed control (like most fan controllers i believe) is 40%.
40% of what you may ask (I asked myself too).Answer is: 40% of the current it receive, in other words 12 volts.

Take a simple 2/3pins fan with a rated top speed of 1200 rpm:
1200 rpm / 12 V (40% = ~480 rpm)

Suppose you lower down it's current need succesively at 9V, 7 and 5V to finish:
(1200x9V) / 12V = 900 rpm (40% = ~360rpm)
(1200x7V) / 12V = 700 rpm (40% = ~280rpm)
(1200x5V) / 12V = 500 rpm (40% = ~200rpm)

A Pwm fan can go even lower than that (10% of it's top speed according to a review i read)
(1200x10) / 100 = ~120 rpm

Solutions for you:
1) Buy a fan controller that support PWM fans such as the Zalman ZM-MFC1 for instance (can only control 1 pwm fan).
2) Buy a motherboard that has 3 or 4 Pwm fan headers (does that even exist?) to connect a bunch of pwm fans.
3) Undervolt your fans (9V/7V... or 5V (not safe) see this thread and choose your fans with a relatively quiet rpm top speed to begin with(no more than 900 rpm) and a good cfm (harsh task here)

The third solution is what i've chosen personally.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:11 am 
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themaster1 wrote:
I have the NZXT sentry2, i use it with non pwm fans.It don't support pwm fans since it only have 2 pins on each of the 5 outputs (or molex adaptator).

The NZXT's minimum fan speed control (like most fan controllers i believe) is 40%.
40% of what you may ask (I asked myself too).Answer is: 40% of the current it receive, in other words 12 volts.

Wait so you don't find any increase in noise from the fan controller?
What kind of fans have you got on there?

Oh and I should clarify, there is only 3 PWM fans in the system and all are daisy chained to the motherboards CPU fan header, the other fans are all the usual 3pin.
themaster1 wrote:
Solutions for you:
1) Buy a fan controller that support PWM fans such as the Zalman ZM-MFC1 for instance (can only control 1 pwm fan).

Unfortunately is won't fit the Fractal R2 Case. I did have one of those and they aren't too bad. The viewing angle is atrocious though.
themaster1 wrote:
2) Buy a motherboard that has 3 or 4 Pwm fan headers (does that even exist?) to connect a bunch of pwm fans.

I shall be experimenting with this one soon. As soon as my friends will lay off asking me to go online or some such and I can disembowl my PC without people howling that it'll never work again. I think I've got a slew of PWM fan connectors but if I recall correctly most of the fan headers are simple duty controlled (set to something% and leave). I'm hoping that speedfan might allow a more responsive setup.

If not I may just have to indulge in this bigNG which faugusztin recommends... I'm just hoping to avoid the additional cost. Two of those things and I'm fairly sure I could dive into crossfire!!
themaster1 wrote:
3) Undervolt your fans (9V/7V... or 5V (not safe) see this thread and choose your fans with a relatively quiet rpm top speed to begin with(no more than 900 rpm) and a good cfm (harsh task here)

I have considered this route... I think it's a sensible option but I'd just find it incredibly hard not to tinker afterwards and static resistors don't allow for tinkering...

Put it like this, despite having my previous PC set up for watercooling and almost never adjusting the cooling set up I had dials for all ten fans and the pump too. Just in case something needed a little more or a little less...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:13 am 
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faugusztin wrote:
Look, in Define R2 case i have no problems cooling down a passive Atom + ION board (generating heat of 50C 24/7) + 8 hard drives with 3 Noiseblocker Multiframe fans running at minimum allowed by fan controller bundled to the case. The front 2 intakes are ok to have, the outtake 12cm fan is ok to have - but the rest is simply unnecessary. Even in this case, you could manage it with bigNG :
1) 2 front intakes connected via Y cable as bigNG Fan #1 (INTAKE), both having same RPM
2) 2 top outtakes + 1 back outtake connected via two Y cables as Fan #2 (OUTTAKE), all three having same RPM
3) 2 fans on graphics card connected via Y cable as Fan #3 (GPU), both having same RPM
4) the CPU fan connected as Fan #4 if you don't want it to be controlled via motherboard.

That is 2 intake + 3 outtake + 2 GPU + 1 CPU = 8 fans in combination that makes sense, will be over the top to cool down your setup and still be able to be controlled via bigNG.

Actually you've given me a different but really good idea. If y splitters aren't a weak point (I previously thought that splitting was a poor solution but it seems I was wrong) then I could split off the two pwm headers on the motherboard and connect like 6 fans on PWM... The only problem then being where to get a 140mm PWM fan.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:12 am 
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6 fans on a single pwm header? Is it even posssible with two ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:20 am 
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themaster1 wrote:
6 fans on a single pwm header? Is it even posssible with two ?


Yes it is possible with 2 fans on one header. But NOT with 6 fans on one header !!!!!!!!!! It would put a lot of stress on the motherboard fan controller since it would require a lot of current to operate all the fans (current = heat).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:41 am 
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You got my attention here. So you're saying one can manage to use the 4th pin (control), the which control a fan speed via the PWM method (extreme versality of the voltage variation "fully on <> fully off")

I wonder how that works on the software side.Care to explain more ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:55 am 
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You can put few fans on T-Balancer because it is rated for 20W per channel - for example a very power hungry Enermax Magma uses 4.8W per fan, that means you can put 4 of Enermax Magma fans on one channel and still be under limit. Fractal Design Silent Series 12cm fan uses 0.72W, so you can put even more on one channel via Y splitter.

Anyway, the point is that T-Balancer header is rated for 20W - but for how much is rated your motherboard header ? Probably a lot less than 20W.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:28 am 
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I'd not actually thought of the combined wattage...

A quick window shop around and I did find 6 way fan splitters for 3 pin fans though and I think the board (if memory serves) can do either PWM control or the old 3 pin manner but with combined wattage I'm going to need to do some calculation.

One thing this does highlight is the poor information given on motherboards. What wattage are the fan headers? I mean if they're really substandard then you could end up with problems if you managed to pick a high power draw fan or cooler.

I wonder if there's something in the specifications of the standards which applies to fan power?

Anyhow, I'm going to continue with the experiment with rigging everything to the motherboard. I should have a couple of fan headers to spread the load but I'll try and keep it below 10W (which at 0.8W per FD 120mm should be easy if the rest aren't too high) and then move up from there.

Surely if I can get speedfan and my motherboard to work together it's a cheap workaround to avoid the whole bigNG thing?

I think I'm going to have to look more into this t-balance stuff thought for later.... You know... when I add more fans ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:44 am 
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Just a thought : I use Noisemagic NMT-3 automatic fan controlers : http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5298/tmp-30/NoiseMagic_ThemoControl_NMT-3_w_3-pin_Connector.html

I'm quite happy with them. (but don't pay what frozenCPU sells them for, I got 3 for that price)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:01 am 
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frenchie wrote:
Just a thought : I use Noisemagic NMT-3 automatic fan controlers : http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5298/tmp-30/NoiseMagic_ThemoControl_NMT-3_w_3-pin_Connector.html

I'm quite happy with them. (but don't pay what frozenCPU sells them for, I got 3 for that price)

Cool. That could work. Esp for the intakes on the hard drive cages which is where the sound of the fans is most noticeable.

Thanks... I'll go hunt for some UK seller...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:55 am 
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Location: Coventry, UK
Typical. Find something cool and not extortionate then find out that no one in the UK stocks it...

Damn.

I'm betting that importing would be more effort than speedfan. I'll try the software and if that doesn't work I'll have to balance the bigNG versus importing these doohickeys. They do look cool though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:13 am 
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Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic
You could then buy Gelid 12 Thermal controlled fans :
http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/ ... id=5&id=27

But all these solutions have one problem - they have their own logic when to ramp up the fans, it's not like the bigNG "i can define my own fan speed vs temperature curve" :).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:46 am 
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Location: Coventry, UK
faugusztin wrote:
You could then buy Gelid 12 Thermal controlled fans :
http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/ ... id=5&id=27

But all these solutions have one problem - they have their own logic when to ramp up the fans, it's not like the bigNG "i can define my own fan speed vs temperature curve" :).

Yeah it does rely a bit on the whole trusting "the man" which isn't really how I tend to do things but I may have to make a sacrifice here... the question is, cash or pride....

I just hope speedfan works... the alternative's solution it seems :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:32 am 
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Location: Greece
I would strongly advise against running more than 2 low power fans on a single motherboard header, you will very likely end up damaging it.

If you want to do it the right way you need something like this. It uses the pwm signal from the motherboard to control 3 fans but sources power directly from the power supply.

You might also want to take a look at this. It`s a cheaper alternative to the T balancer that still offers fairly decent temp based control.

Some fans, like those cooling the hard drive might not need a fan controller at all, a simple 5 volt tweak could do. If you streamline your setup a bit, a good pwm splitter along with some more basic speed reduction methods might be all you`ll need. And if you swap the fan on the gpu you could still use the existing header to power the replacement.

A dedicated fan controller does have the advantage of letting you monitor additional temps but imo it`s not the most elegant way.

Basically, you need the two hottest components (cpu & gpu) controlling the majority of fans. A 3 way splitter on the motherboard would control the cpu fan plus one intake and one exhaust. If your video card has a pwm header you could do the same there. The hard drives could be cooled by a fan set at a fixed speed. Seven fans in total which is still overkill as even 5 should be plenty (cpu, gpu and 3 case fans).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:27 am 
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ntavlas wrote:
I would strongly advise against running more than 2 low power fans on a single motherboard header, you will very likely end up damaging it.

Weird thing is I checked the motherboard manual last night hunting for the fan controller specs and after bad mouthing them yesterday I found the precise information and it's good news.

Apparently each header can take 24W and between the lot they can do something like 80+W! That's a whole lot more than I was expecting.
ntavlas wrote:
If you want to do it the right way you need something like this. It uses the pwm signal from the motherboard to control 3 fans but sources power directly from the power supply.

Yeah I would use something like that but the door on the case necessitates a flat 5 1/4" bay and I'd hate to recess the controller. It'd just look half arsed.
ntavlas wrote:
You might also want to take a look at this. It`s a cheaper alternative to the T balancer that still offers fairly decent temp based control.

That's what I've got on my 3 PWM fan setup. I just can't use it as a whole solution without finding a supplier of 140mm PWM fans and thus far the only way I've heard of is by contacting Scythe support as I think one of their HSF uses one. Aside from that it looks like an unsupported fan configuration which is a shame as I can see people using more 140mm fans in the future.
ntavlas wrote:
Some fans, like those cooling the hard drive might not need a fan controller at all, a simple 5 volt tweak could do. If you streamline your setup a bit, a good pwm splitter along with some more basic speed reduction methods might be all you`ll need. And if you swap the fan on the gpu you could still use the existing header to power the replacement.

A dedicated fan controller does have the advantage of letting you monitor additional temps but imo it`s not the most elegant way.

Basically, you need the two hottest components (cpu & gpu) controlling the majority of fans. A 3 way splitter on the motherboard would control the cpu fan plus one intake and one exhaust. If your video card has a pwm header you could do the same there. The hard drives could be cooled by a fan set at a fixed speed. Seven fans in total which is still overkill as even 5 should be plenty (cpu, gpu and 3 case fans).

I'm coming around to that kind of solution.

After messing around with speedfan last night it looks like with this motherboard I can only monitor fan speeds from inside windows but it does allow me to set thermally responsive settings in the bios.

I was thinking of getting another PWM splitter and daisy chaining it so I've got the two front intakes, one on the heatsink and the rear exhaust all off the CPU header. The hard drives shouldn't really overheat at all regardless but it shouldn't hurt.

Then all I'd need to do is get some fan splitters so I can run the remaining 4 140mm fans in pairs. The two intakes running off the graphics card temperature and the two roof exhausts perhaps just on like a permanent 50% setting. That should all work nicely.

As for overkill... has the Missus been on hear briefing people or something?
;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:12 am 
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Sussed it. I think....

Basically I can have the rear exhaust, CPU fan (just one and settle for a pull configuration to clear the two empty memory sockets for later) and the top front intake off of the CPU PWM header.

Next rig up the side and bottom intake to chassis 1 (I think that's the right one for the GPU... it may just be on general temperature but either way it should do the trick) using a 3pin y connector.

Connect the lower front intake to chassis 2 and the two roof exhausts to chassis 3.

Simple. That way I can control all of the fans on the basis of temperature without relying on the annoying additional temperature connectors (one of which seems to have died already... handily).

Oh and on the lines of a 140mm PWM, I was wrong. It seems that if you're American then you can have your cake and eat it. It's called a Zaward GII. It comes in 4 flavours but only two colours, black and white.

All I'm hoping is that the currently excellent Akasa Apache fans are as brilliantly quiet on voltage control as they are on PWM.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:26 am 
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Just to be controversial I've been thinking about this less fans concept and thinking more in terms of air flow.

If I disconnected the two input fans at the front of the case, the side intake and the foremost 140mm roof exhaust I'm thinking that the airflow could be more directed with that configuration and lead to better heat - noise results.

I know there's no magical ultimate configuration but I am beginning to wonder if case manufacturers just don't think too much about where they put their fan mounts.

And why is everyone now so paranoid about harddrives? I know they don't do well if they're hot but do they really require the direct flow of cold air from the outside of the case?

Anyhow, figured I'd theorise a negative pressure build. The case seems suited to it as it includes proper blanking plates for any unused fan mounts and even soundproofs the plates...

Also it'd save the whole complicated power splitting set up and additional fan purchase (If I did it I'd have to replace the one odd fan which is the scythe 140mm at the bottom with an identical Fractal Designs 140mm.... it'd bug me otherwise).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:10 am 
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The concept is flawed because one single pwm header rely on one single digital probe, in other words if you connect say your cpu/gpu fans on the same header it makes no sense.The mobo will automatically raise up the speed of both fans even though the gpu, most likely, might not need such a speed increase.I suppose if you control the fans manually via Cpuid HWMP or speed fan that'd be ok but still, i prefer the common solution : rheobus, with 5 probes there is no pb.

Food for thought


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:29 am 
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themaster1 wrote:
The concept is flawed because one single pwm header rely on one single digital probe, in other words if you connect say your cpu/gpu fans on the same header it makes no sense.The mobo will automatically raise up the speed of both fans even though the gpu, most likely, might not need such a speed increase.I suppose if you control the fans manually via Cpuid HWMP or speed fan that'd be ok but still, i prefer the common solution : rheobus, with 5 probes there is no pb.

Food for thought

It does seem odd to me that considering how much heat a GPU can produce that there's no real motherboard route to control fans for it. Basically I'm figuring that without a GPU temp reading to work from the next best solution is to assume that when the CPU is working so too is the GPU and hope for the best.

At present I think I've got it quite quiet and it's still cool just by running the whole thing off the motherboard. However I'm beginning to think my Scythe 140mm is naff. When I ask the motherboard to use the minimum fan speed for the chassis headers, I get a grumbling noise which as far as I can tell comes from the Scythe.

How well. The investigation continues.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:44 am 
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Location: toronto
faugusztin wrote:
The question is what do you mean with "T-Balancer". It is a whole family of products.
  1. bigNG - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produ ... _bigng.htm - this is what i use, all it uses from motherboard is one USB connection for software control via their own software + one 4-pin molex from PSU
  2. miniNG - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/Modelle.htm - you can use one of their predefined modes via jumpers, or connect it to the bigNG and control it via software and bigNG
  3. classic - http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_xl.htm - never seen these on market, so i can't comment about them. Neither about http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_tban_ya.htm nor about http://www.t-balancer.com/english/produkt_1kanal.htm


Where do you purchase bigNG?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:44 pm 
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Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic
tido wrote:
Where do you purchase bigNG?


http://www.tichepc.sk/mCubed-T-Balancer ... l?arg1=001

Not like it helps you too much :lol: .


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