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 Post subject: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:12 pm 
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My front 120mm intake fan is shot, is/was a Globalwin 120mm NCB Bearing fan, got about three years out of it. May sound like a decent life span, but I'm running an old metal Evercool 120mm exhaust fan that's on about the 8th year of life.

Would the new Scythe Kama Flow 2 (1400 RPM) be a suitable replacement, it seems to push about 6 or 7 more CFM (according to spec sheets) but at the expense of an added 8 or 9db's. I've read through a lot of the old reviews and posts here and was all set to go wiht the Scythe S-Flex fan, but was soon disappointed when I found out they been discontinued. The other option I had in mind is the Noctua, but I really don't have that kinda cash to drop on a case fan.

Any other fans I should look at? (system specs in sig) I'm hoping to keep about 40-50CFM and really not wanting to push anymore then 20 or so DB.

Also interested in suggestions on exhaust fan options, the Evercool isn't noisy when under volted from the bios, but at normal speeds I wouldn't want to be in the room with it. I'm just mainly concerned with the age, and the vibration that the computer seems to have, that I haven't noticed in the past.

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MSI ZH77A-G43 | Intel i3 3220 | Antec Neo ECO 520 | Kingston Hyper-X Blue 8gb DDR3 | Sapphire HD 3850 Ultimate (passive cooled) | EMU 0404 sound->Entech 203.2 external DAC | Samsung Spinpoint 1tb F3 103SJ HD |Optitrac 7620 DVD| Scythe Kama Flow2 1400RPM 120mm Intake fan |Evercool 120mm Metal fan Exhaust


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:15 pm
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
It has been demonstrated many times that push-pull fan configurations give very little improvement over single fans whether on the CPU cooler or on the Chassis. Scythe PWM fans don't use very much power and you can safely run 2 of them from the CPU fan header using a PWM Y-splitter. With this configuration it is it is possible to have a computer that is silent at idle and still stay safely cool under heavy load.

To ensure adequate air flow with the least noise some measure of science is prudent.

Generally you should:
-1- test your system and record the results
-2- make a change
-3- retest and compare the results

These are good tools:

CPUBurn - processor stress software x4 for your quad core CPU
FurMark - to stress the GPU
GPU-Z - to monitor GPU temperature and fan speed
ASUS PC Probe - to monitor CPU temperature and fan speeds

Have fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
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Location: US
Arbutus wrote:
It has been demonstrated many times that push-pull fan configurations give very little improvement over single fans whether on the CPU cooler or on the Chassis.
I don't believe that is completely true. Or at least it is a subjective statement that many people might differ with.

Also, I think there are other reasons why dual fans are better than single fans.

For the same temp, you can dial down the speed and get quieter air movement/fan noise.
When you have two fans, one can fail without catastrophic consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:18 pm 
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comfortablynumb wrote:
Any other fans I should look at? (system specs in sig) I'm hoping to keep about 40-50CFM and really not wanting to push anymore then 20 or so DB.
It is hard to go wrong with Neux of Scythe slipstream fans.

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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Location: Greece
Arbutus wrote:
Generally you should:
-1- test your system and record the results
-2- make a change
-3- retest and compare the results


I second that plus it would be a good first step to record your temperatures. This will help you decide in how to setup your fans so you can get adequate cooling as quietly as possible.

The front intake fan is not a critical component. But in a system with a possibly older hard drive and a discreet gpu (admitedly the Saphire Ultimate is a special case), I think it`s worth having one, even if it runs at a fairly low speed.

The Nexus RealSilent (1000 rpm) is still the reference fan in SPCR`s reviews. The SlipStreams are also nice but they don`t deal with restrictions as well as other fans. In a typical case of the core 2 era the Nexus could be a safer choice.
If you do manage to find the Skythe s-flex at a reasonable price they are excellent too. I`ve been using 3 of those for about 8 years and they have aged pretty gracefully. They compare favorably to the 2 year old Nexus fans I`m using in another build.

The Arctic Cooling F series pwm fans seem to be well regarded too. They have a built in Y splitter so you could do what Arbutus suggests. The new fan will work as an exhaust, slowing down at low loads along with the cpu fan. The Evercool would be used as an intake, being controlled by the m/b as usual. This is a very efficient way of controlling all your fans, not requiring any extra hardware or software. The drawback is that the exhaust fan won`t always speed up when the gpu heats up, and the gpu is very reliant on the exhaust fan for staying cool. So you should keep an eye on gpu temps in particular, if you go with this solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 31
Location: US
Thanks all for the suggestions, not really looking to reconfigure the push/pull config mainly because I'm running in an ancient piece of junk case, it's only benefit is somewhat decent ventilation, though that's debatable with a sideways facing hard drive cage. The computer runs about as quiet as I expect, I know if I want dead silent it will require a much better case.

I was looking at the Nexus last night, but really looking for something without sleeve bearings, as I've never had much luck with any sleeve fan lasting longer then a year, but to be honest I haven't used one in many years. Also it's molex powered and 3 pin for RPM.

Since unplugging my front fan yesterday my temps are quit a few degrees higher. Using CPUID (hardware monitor), with my current uptime, about 6 hours, and pretty much idle for a while now I'm looking at 47C for the Sapphire 3850, HD is reporting 41C which I've never usually seen over 35C, CPU 37C...the other sensor labeled SYS is reporting 43C I'm not sure where that sensor on this mobo is and or what it's reporting PSU area maybe?

The Hard drive is relatively new I got it before the shortage/price hike about 8/9 months ago? The video card is a refurb that I picked up a few months ago on clearance somewhere for next to nothing, I dare say they really overbuilt the heatsink on this thing it's massive.

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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Posts: 218
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
ntavlas wrote:
Arbutus wrote:
Generally you should:
-1- test your system and record the results
-2- make a change
-3- retest and compare the results
I second that plus it would be a good first step to record your temperatures. This will help you decide in how to setup your fans so you can get adequate cooling as quietly as possible.
Some like maximum cooling but my budget stops me at good enough. Also I stay away from ball bearing fans which can turn nasty noisy real fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:23 pm
Posts: 154
Location: California, USA
Arbutus wrote:
It has been demonstrated many times that push-pull fan configurations give very little improvement over single fans whether on the CPU cooler or on the Chassis.


Push pull on a CPU cooler does give huge improvements at low fan speeds. When SPCR tested the Mugen 2 it went from mediocre to beating all other coolers with the lowest noise levels.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article961-page6.html


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Posts: 218
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
fyleow wrote:
Arbutus wrote:
When SPCR tested the Mugen 2 it went from mediocre to beating all other coolers with the lowest noise levels. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article961-page6.html
Great cooler. Great article. Check out http://www.silentpcreview.com/article961-page5.html :

- 11 dBa - Scythe Mugen-2 with stock pwm fan
- 11 dBa - Scythe Mugen-2 with 1 reference 120mm fan

The low limit of the spcr test chamber is 11 dBa. I don't know empirically what the ambient noise level of my computer location is. I live in a average Canadian city residential neighborhood. The ambient noise level in my den varies throughout the day. I have built my PC so that at idle it is silent during the day and when things quiet down in the late evening I can here a very gentle, faint 'whoosh'. This satisfies both my ears and my budget.

------ My Main System ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Antec P180 spcr_edition, Athlon II X4 640, Scythe NINJA, ASUS M2A-VM HDMI, OCZ Solid 3 120 GByte SSD, 500 GB FXD, WinXP


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 Post subject: Re: Scythe Kama Flow 2 decent replacement for Globalwin NCB?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 31
Location: US
fyleow wrote:
Arbutus wrote:
It has been demonstrated many times that push-pull fan configurations give very little improvement over single fans whether on the CPU cooler or on the Chassis.


Push pull on a CPU cooler does give huge improvements at low fan speeds. When SPCR tested the Mugen 2 it went from mediocre to beating all other coolers with the lowest noise levels.



Interesting, maybe an upgrade in the near future, the stock Intel CPU fan is beyond ridiculous when it ramps up. Sounds like a prop plane or something. Right now I'm running 'Optimal' in the Bios but may try 'Silent' when I get the new intake fan from Newegg, speaking of I went with the 1400 Kama 2.

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