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 Post subject: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:03 pm 
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Location: Memphis TN, USA
I'm thinking of moving the rear fan to the front so I'll have two front fans and replacing the rear exhaust fan. The Asus Hero VIII motherboard has plenty of fan headers which can be designated as voltage (3 pin) or PCM (4 pin) controlled. If I go with one of these fans, which one would you recommend and why:

Noctua NF-A15 PWM
Noctua NF-A14 PWM
Noctua NF-A14 ULN
Noctua NF-A14 FLX
Noctua NF-P14 FLX

Yate Loon D14SM-12
Yate Loon D14SL-12

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Last edited by Bearmann on Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:02 pm 
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Noctua fans are fine, but some prefer their old style in terms of sonic signature.

If i was buying case fans for the R5, i would get Antec True Quiet 140, imo the best quiet 140 case fan for the money, with an Asus motheboard you can drop them to 200rpms if you wished =)

Now if you really want Noctua, i would go with either
Noctua NF-P14s redux-900 Fan (140x140x25mm, square frame 3-pin, 900rpm) (for Voltage Control)
Noctua SSO Bearing Fan Retail Cooling NF-P14s redux-1200 PWM (for PWM control)

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:20 pm 
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I need to spend a little extra to get free shipping on my heatsink, and those fans are what they have in stock, plus a few I don't think would be recommended. So that is why I made that specific list. Then again, if they are not appropriate, I can buy something else there, and go with another Fractal GP-14, which was my original intent.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:04 am 
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Bearmann wrote:
I need to spend a little extra to get free shipping on my heatsink, and those fans are what they have in stock, plus a few I don't think would be recommended. So that is why I made that specific list. Then again, if they are not appropriate, I can buy something else there, and go with another Fractal GP-14, which was my original intent.

Set aside the Yate Loons, I think all the Noctuas were already tested by SPCR (look at First 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek for several more information about): sound wise, the best Noctua is clearly the P14, the previous SPCR reference fan (no more in charge just because it has been discontinued, and that's why Abula adviced you about the P14r, which is a re-issue of the same fan but with a different color-scheme and virtually no-bundle).

Frankly I don't know whether it's really preferable to another GP-14, I'd say no.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:24 am 
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So if You to choose from the fans on my list, which one would you choose?

Now I'm thinking that maybe I'll get the Noctua NH-D15 cooler since its at a pretty good price, but only use the middle fan on it. I'll pull off the front Noctua NF-A15 push fan and use it as my rear exhaust case fan, while placing the two Fractal Gp-14's on the front. Probably not ideal from a sound perspective, but I'm not too picky. It would also allow me to use almost any RAM I desired, and reduce the cost of the heatsink since I'll be getting an extra fan with it that I won't have to purchase separately.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:56 am 
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Bearmann wrote:
So if You to choose from the fans on my list, which one would you choose?

quest_for_silence wrote:
the best Noctua is clearly the P14... BUT I don't know whether it's really preferable to another GP-14, I'd say no.



Bearmann wrote:
It would also allow me to use almost any RAM I desired, and reduce the cost of the heatsink since I'll be getting an extra fan with it that I won't have to purchase separately.

It's a possibility with some sound reasons: do what you think best, in case you can always decide to buy a third case fan later.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:26 am 
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Thanks. I was getting confused by the different model numbers and suffixes. I appreciate all of your recommendations 8)

Has anyone used an Noctua NF-A15 on the back of the Fractal R5? I wonder if there will be any problem with fit or obstruction of other components, e.g. the IO shield?

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:27 pm 
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I also recently got a new R5, and was looking to do the same by moving the rear fan to the front and replacing the exhaust.

It looks like the case comes with a fan controller that can handle 3 fans.

What would be the preferred scenario, plugging the third (new, exhaust) fan into the controller with the other two intakes, or plugging it into the motherboard separately?
I'm assuming you would want 3pin fan to plug into the controller? Would the Antec TrueQuiet 140 still be the best option in the case of plugging all three into the provided controller?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:53 pm 
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mmolignano wrote:
I also recently got a new R5, and was looking to do the same by moving the rear fan to the front and replacing the exhaust.

It looks like the case comes with a fan controller that can handle 3 fans.

What would be the preferred scenario, plugging the third (new, exhaust) fan into the controller with the other two intakes, or plugging it into the motherboard separately?
I'm assuming you would want 3pin fan to plug into the controller? Would the Antec TrueQuiet 140 still be the best option in the case of plugging all three into the provided controller?


Most motherboards provide greater fan control than the case controller. With the Fractal case controller I think you have 3 options, full, medium, or low. Once you set it, it's not software adjustable- you can't have it low when the computer is at idle and speed it up as the computer gets hotter.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:00 am 
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Bearmann wrote:
mmolignano wrote:
I also recently got a new R5, and was looking to do the same by moving the rear fan to the front and replacing the exhaust.

It looks like the case comes with a fan controller that can handle 3 fans.

What would be the preferred scenario, plugging the third (new, exhaust) fan into the controller with the other two intakes, or plugging it into the motherboard separately?
I'm assuming you would want 3pin fan to plug into the controller? Would the Antec TrueQuiet 140 still be the best option in the case of plugging all three into the provided controller?


Most motherboards provide greater fan control than the case controller. With the Fractal case controller I think you have 3 options, full, medium, or low. Once you set it, it's not software adjustable- you can't have it low when the computer is at idle and speed it up as the computer gets hotter.


Do most people then completely ignore the provided fan controller and plug all fans including the ones provided with the case into the motherboard?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:46 am 
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I would think that this has been the usual practice for most users for some time. The issue is that even motherboard control of the supplied 3-pin Fractal fans is limited in scope. With most boards the minimum speed achievable is around 700 rpm, with one particular brand more like 600 rpm. For many users I suspect this will be quite acceptable, particularly as it is a no-additional cost option and gives a degree of automatic thermal control. If lower speeds are required, the built-in fan controller on the R5 drops the voltage down to about 5V, just under 500 rpm as a fixed speed. The only way of achieving this speed with a motherboard is the combination of an Asus board and Fan Xpert 2 or above fan control software.

After that, the only option is to replace the fans. The Antec TrueQuiet 140mm 3 pin fan is often suggested because its minimum speed using Fan Xpert is around 200 rpm. However its top speed as measured by SPCR is only 700 rpm, which might be an issue in some circumstances. Used on non-Asus motherboards the minimum speed of the TrueQuiet is around 480 rpm at 7V, an improvement on the Fractals but maybe not enough to justify the cost of replacing them.

A further alternative is one of the PWM case fans such as the Noctua NF-P14s Redux PWM 1200RPM. Like the TrueQuiet this will run down to around 200 rpm using Fan Xpert but obviously with no loss of top speed. Using only the Asus BIOS Silent Profile, that is without the Fan Xpert software, the Redux will run under idle conditions in the 350 to 450 rpm range, depending on ambient temperature. Many other board manufacturers now have a Silent setting in the BIOS of some sort, so this should be achievable with other brands as well. Actually fitting a PWM exhaust fan varies in complication depending on what support the motherboard provides. With the Asus boards that have a CPU_OPT PWM header it just involves plugging it in there. The CPU_OPT header just mirrors whatever the settings are for the CPU header. Alternatively, there may be motherboard PWM headers or failing that it may be necessary to chain the fan from the CPU header using a splitter cable. A simple cheap PWM Y header cable can be enough. Other potential options such as the Noctua NF-A14 and A15 PWM fans are more expensive, have a slightly lower idle speed but do include a Y cable. The A15 is essentially one of those 140mm size rotor/120mm fixings fans except that it has two side extensions. This add about 10mm to the dimensions of the fan. It will fit in the R5 with the wider sides at the top and bottom.

Having mentioned the NF-A14 and A15 it might be worth noting that the A14 has a top speed of 1500 rpm and the A15 1200 rpm. However the A15 fans fitted to the NH-D15 cooler are not entirely the same as the retail product, as they run to 1500 rpm. The main intent of PWM control when the system is under stress is to automatically increase airflow to the point where it balances and fan speeds become steady. This point should not be close to the maximum speed of any of these fans unless ambient temperatures are high.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:20 am 
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I've ordered the Asus Z170 Pro Gaming board which claims 2 4-pin cpu fan headers (optional mirroring the main I assume) and 3 4-pin chassis fan headers.

I'll have a 6700k slightly overclocked and a asus strix 980ti potentially overclocked in the case.

I'm debating between three options, any advice on pros/cons of the options would be welcome!

1) Keep 2 provided 3-pin fractal fans in original positions and connect to motherboard chassis headers and control through bios?
2) Move provided exhaust fan to front to have 2 front intake (both provided 3-pin fractal fans). Add 3rd fan as exhaust (Probably one of the suggested 4pin PWM Noctua fans?).
3) Replace provided fans with 3 new 4pin PWM fans (2 as intake, 1 as exhaust).

I understand that connecting the fans to the motherboard vs the case fan controller will give me more dynamic control over the fans based on case temperature (even with the 3pin fans), but does the PWM replacement provide much more than what I already have with the 3pin fractal fans?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:33 am 
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mmolignano wrote:
but does the PWM replacement provide much more than what I already have with the 3pin fractal fans?

Much more control or much more airflow?

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:39 am 
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Control. I would think the max airflow is going to be the same regardless of the connection type, just based upon the rating of the fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:45 am 
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mmolignano wrote:
Control. I would think the max airflow is going to be the same regardless of the connection type, just based upon the rating of the fan.

It strictly depends of fan control method: broadly speaking, on a pure BIOS control, usually the starting threshold is lower with PWM fans.
On a software based control, often it doesn't matter whether you have 3 pin or 4 pin fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:29 am 
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mmolignano wrote:
I've ordered the Asus Z170 Pro Gaming board which claims 2 4-pin cpu fan headers (optional mirroring the main I assume) and 3 4-pin chassis fan headers.

I'll have a 6700k slightly overclocked and a asus strix 980ti potentially overclocked in the case.

I'm debating between three options, any advice on pros/cons of the options would be welcome!

1) Keep 2 provided 3-pin fractal fans in original positions and connect to motherboard chassis headers and control through bios?
2) Move provided exhaust fan to front to have 2 front intake (both provided 3-pin fractal fans). Add 3rd fan as exhaust (Probably one of the suggested 4pin PWM Noctua fans?).
3) Replace provided fans with 3 new 4pin PWM fans (2 as intake, 1 as exhaust).

I understand that connecting the fans to the motherboard vs the case fan controller will give me more dynamic control over the fans based on case temperature (even with the 3pin fans), but does the PWM replacement provide much more than what I already have with the 3pin fractal fans?


I wouldn't discard the Fractal fans, as they are supposed to be pretty good. I decided to add a third fan for no particular reason. I will move the rear Fractal to the front so I have a matched pair up front for appearance. I'll probably use a Noctua fan in the rear as I like the 6 year warranty and build quality, though another Fractal fan would be OK too.

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Last edited by Bearmann on Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:32 am 
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asus strix 980ti -- you do know that as soon as a 980ti is in the system, there's simply no way to keep it quiet under load?

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:45 am 
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MikeC wrote:
asus strix 980ti -- you do know that as soon as a 980ti is in the system, there's simply no way to keep it quiet under load?


Understood. More interested in having the best cooling and airflow setup at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:52 am 
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MikeC wrote:
asus strix 980ti -- you do know that as soon as a 980ti is in the system, there's simply no way to keep it quiet under load?

Well, there's one method to mitigate its noise, water cooling it (though the right way, of course): weren't you satisfied by your water cooling test?

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:36 am 
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MikeC wrote:
asus strix 980ti -- you do know that as soon as a 980ti is in the system, there's simply no way to keep it quiet under load?
I agree with Mike, specially underload, with my Asus GTX970 underload they become a very noticeable kinda like turbine noise, personally i just couldn't stand playing diablo3 and hearing the noise, even with headphones on, to me Asus has way to aggressive curve getting near 80C and thier fans are small thus unleshing the niose on load (or they need better cooling). That said, for me MSI is much better option, they use 100mm fans and their fan curves on vbios are much less aggressive getting closer to 80C, under the same load the Asus were a good 600rpm ahead on equal temps.

Btw Mike, would be interesting down the road to revisit the MK26 with these new high end gpus, if it can cool down GPUs like GTX480, should have an easier time with lower TDP gpus like the GTX980Ti. Personally im not intersted atm, because there is no way to fit two MK26, but i always had the spine of testing the MK26, maybe will on Nvidia Pascal.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:40 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
MikeC wrote:
asus strix 980ti -- you do know that as soon as a 980ti is in the system, there's simply no way to keep it quiet under load?

Well, there's one method to mitigate its noise, water cooling it (though the right way, of course): weren't you satisfied by your water cooling test?

Yes but the OP is looking at an all-air cooling system, right? Besides WC is still a pita. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:45 am 
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I'm in a very similar situation. I want to move the rear Fractal fan on my R5 to pair it with the front intake, and get a PWM 140mm for the rear (and possibly another for the bottom; haven't decided yet).

No one has mentioned the Phanteks PH-F140HP, which sounded quite appealing in the "First 140 mm Fan Roundup" of a few years ago. Is there a reason why this one is now out of favor? Amazon's selling them for only $15, which seems pretty darn cheap for a good PWM 140mm fan. Am I missing something?

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:29 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Besides WC is still a pita. :roll:

+1: though, if you have 250W to cool *quietly*, it's the only game in town (so, pick your poison).


Ken5d wrote:
Am I missing something?

No: it's a good option.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:08 pm 
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Ken5d wrote:
I'm in a very similar situation. I want to move the rear Fractal fan on my R5 to pair it with the front intake, and get a PWM 140mm for the rear (and possibly another for the bottom; haven't decided yet).

No one has mentioned the Phanteks PH-F140HP, which sounded quite appealing in the "First 140 mm Fan Roundup" of a few years ago. Is there a reason why this one is now out of favor? Amazon's selling them for only $15, which seems pretty darn cheap for a good PWM 140mm fan. Am I missing something?


My understanding is that many of the Phantecs products are copies of the Noctua products (correct me if I am mistaken). Some may have an issue with this.

Would anybody offer an opinion on the durability of the Phantecs UFB (Updraft Floating Balance) Bearing versus the Noctua self-stabilising oil-pressure bearing (SSO-Bearing)? The Phantecs fan does come with a five year warranty versus the Noctua's six year, but I wonder how the fans function a few years out from being new.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:02 am 
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Bearmann wrote:
Ken5d wrote:
I'm in a very similar situation. I want to move the rear Fractal fan on my R5 to pair it with the front intake, and get a PWM 140mm for the rear (and possibly another for the bottom; haven't decided yet).

No one has mentioned the Phanteks PH-F140HP, which sounded quite appealing in the "First 140 mm Fan Roundup" of a few years ago. Is there a reason why this one is now out of favor? Amazon's selling them for only $15, which seems pretty darn cheap for a good PWM 140mm fan. Am I missing something?


My understanding is that many of the Phantecs products are copies of the Noctua products (correct me if I am mistaken). Some may have an issue with this.

Would anybody offer an opinion on the durability of the Phantecs UFB (Updraft Floating Balance) Bearing versus the Noctua self-stabilising oil-pressure bearing (SSO-Bearing)? The Phantecs fan does come with a five year warranty versus the Noctua's six year, but I wonder how the fans function a few years out from being new.


I was running both Noctua and Phantecs fans in my setup for a while.. Honestly both were really good. My main problem with the phanteks was I could not get it under 600rpm. Now it's a 3 pin fan and I know they have a true PWM version out now but even it is only rated at like 600rpm.

OP I have a Fractal R5 also and use a Noctua 140mm redux fan in the back. It's amazing.. runs as low as 250rpm and can go up to 1500 for my version.

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:52 am 
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Copyright wrote:
Bearmann wrote:
I was running both Noctua and Phantecs fans in my setup for a while.. Honestly both were really good. My main problem with the phanteks was I could not get it under 600rpm. Now it's a 3 pin fan and I know they have a true PWM version out now but even it is only rated at like 600rpm.

OP I have a Fractal R5 also and use a Noctua 140mm redux fan in the back. It's amazing.. runs as low as 250rpm and can go up to 1500 for my version.
I ended up getting both a Noctua (NF-A15) and a Phantecs (PH-F140HPII), both PWM fans. It's true the Phantecs is rated only down to 500rpm, vs 300rpm for the Noctua. But I'm assuming both will be silent at their slowest speeds. (I have all the parts to build my computer now except mobo and cpu, so I still can't actually test the fans to see what they're like.)

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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Is it better to put static pressure fans like the Phanteks on the R5 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:18 am 
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I've found most of the time if good intake fans are uses no exhaust fans are needed .. and if needed it is more to change the case airflow patterns than to increase case airflow. By this I mean flowing a cool air supplying to component and flowing their heated exhaust out of case without it mixing with the cool air supply.

I would change the front intakes to fans better designed to overcome resistance. The filters and grills need more powerful fans. At least this proved true in all previous versions of Define cases. I'm quite fond of TY-14x series fans from Thermalright. The TY-147A is black housing with white fan, PWM 300-1300rpm. Problem is it is not square and uses 120mm fan mounts. Making them 140x140 is pretty easy if you have access to a good power miter saw or table saw Just trim the rounded sides. I don't know how Define R5 front mounts work, but in Define R4 the fans clip in, and 140x140 flat sides on TY-14x fans clip in nicely.

If you need more info please ask. I have a tutorial and drawings for cutting them to 140x140mm and also a pattern for making a 140x140 adapter to use them on 140mm fan mounting pattern.


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Sup OCN Doyll, i knew i had seen your name somewhere.... but until you mentioned the Thermalright fans, it just clicked.

Nice to have you here, hope you share your thoughs as you have on OCN.

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GameMiv3 >> AsRock H170 Pro4 | Intel Core i7-6700K | Prolimatech Genesis + 2x Thermalright TY-147A | Kingston HyperX FURY 64GB DDR4 2133 | MSI GTX1080 Gaming X (soon) | Acer Predator XB321HK 4K IPS Gsync | Samsung 850pro 1TB | WD RED 3TB | Silverstone FT05 + 2x Silverstone AP182 | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Exhaust Fan for Fractal R5
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:32 am
Posts: 65
Location: Memphis TN, USA
Well, I built my computer this past weekend. I ended up getting the NH-D15 cooler. I moved the rear Fractal GP-14 to the front bottom and removed the center 5 bay drive cage. I only used the center fan on the NH-D15 cooler and took the extra A15 fan and made it a rear case exhaust. Later if I decide I need that extra 2-3 degrees of cooling from the heatsink, I'll put the fan back on the heatsink and get something else for the rear. I hooked up the rear A15 to the CPU_OPT header on my Maximus VIII Hero MB as someone suggested in one of the threads here. I was only able to get the front two fans down from 60% voltage to 50% voltage, as it took at least 40% voltage to get them spinning. I forgot to check the RPM's, but I'm sure it's rather high for many here. I didn't try to adjust the CPU or rear fan, but left it on the standard curve for the MB. Anyway, everything is very quiet for me except for a frequent droning like a prop plane circling overhead. I'm almost sure it is the bearings on one or more of my hard drives. I'll get those replaced soon and expect I will probably be all SSD's by this time next year. I haven't done anything but surf so far, so my MSI GTX 960 and EVGA P2 650 haven't started up their fans yet.

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Barry


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