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 Post subject: Hopefully an interesting fan question + plea for advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:41 am
Posts: 6
Location: Czech Republic
Hello dear SPCR colleagues!
I turn once again to you for your opinions, help, advice and expertise.

I have been thinking about the following lately:
Let's suppose that we have a Scythe Mugen 3 Rev. B heatsink with the stock fan (SY1225SL12M-P). I think it is generally agreed upon that this can sufficiently cool most/all non-overclocked CPUs.

Now let's say we want to overclock some particular cpu. It is only logical that we would want to compensate for the extra generated heat. Going for a push-pull fan configuration (adding a second fan) with our given Mugen heatsink is one of the options.

Now this is where I got my head tangled up:
The easiest option would be to somehow get my hands on one additional stock Mugen fan, i.e. the SY1225SL12M-P. But these are not sold separately. The only way I can think of to get one would be to buy additional Mugen heatsink and take its stock fan.

Even if I had two SY1225SL12M-P fans, how do I know this is enough? What if I want/need to achieve a better cooling performance (i.e. need to keep the cpu safely cooled while at the same time maintain a reasonable sound level)?

I read on different places (e.g. here and even somewhere on SPCR forums as well) that the gentle typhoon is a better heatsink fan than the Slip Stream. I really don't know if it's true, but let's say that we believe it is and we replace our two stock Mugen fans with two gentle typhoons:
- How do I choose the right model - i mean the RMP rating? How do I know whether, say for example, an overclocked i5-3570k will be sufficiently cooled by two 1150 rpm models? Which leads me to question (*)
As a consequence we loose the PWM ability of the fans that we had before - thus we no longer can regulate the fans with speedfans and/or the fans no longer can be regulated by motherboard. Does PWM makes sense when cooling an overclocked cpu? Don't the tempreatures rise so much that basicaly the PWM would in reality work in the upper range of RPMs anyway?

What about other fans? Which fans do you think would exhibit the best cooling performance (at a reasonable sound level) in a push-pull configuration on the Scythe Mugen?

I am limited a bit by the availability. Out of the recommended fans and the roundup, the Thermalright TY170 is the only one I cannot get.

In a nutshell I am trying to find out whether it's better to try to go for the PWM fans or non-pwm fans, and which ones, when shooting for a dual push-pull configuration for a cpu that we want to overclock.

Another question:
I am looking a for an additional front fan for the define R4 case. There were two fans included. At first I thought that I will just go for a Slip Stream 1200rpm and undervolt it together with the two
included fans using the case fan control. But then I thought that I might look around for a 140mm fan and I ran into these
http://shop.tntrade.cz/vypocetni-techni ... ?scaid=76&
I didn't know these existed. I couldn't find them on the official site. Are these a 140mm versions of slip streams? I also couldn't find any information about these fans nor any review so if anybody has any information could you please tell me?

Could you please give me a recommendation for a 14cm front case fan? I know there are recommendations on the Recommended Fans page, but Noctua is too expensive, the other two were not officially tested, and I don't want the Thermalright - it was designed for a heatsink anyway. Or should I rather stick with the 120mm???

(*)Another question:
Given there is usually a couple of different RPMs available for a given fan model, then generally speaking is it better to get a higher rpm model and then undervolt it or buy a lower rpm model ( a model that is close to the rpm of the undervolted higher rpm model )?

I'd like to thank you in advance for you replies.

Best Regards,
Karol


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 Post subject: Re: Hopefully an interesting fan question + plea for advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 624
Location: Germany
You might start off with a pwm-splitter. So the PWM signals can be transmitted to two fans, which then in turn can be controlled as a single fan.

For your choice of fans to use on the mugen: Check your favorite shops and tell us, what fans are available (or payble) for you. Two identical fans should be used imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Hopefully an interesting fan question + plea for advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:41 am
Posts: 6
Location: Czech Republic
Hello Pappnaas,
thank you for your reply. Danke schoen :).

Here are the fans that I can get:
Scythe (Practically I can get the whole Scythe line, including some abandoned fans that are still in on stock):
- Whole Gentle Typhoon 120mm product line. Models: D1225C12B1AP-11 (500 rpm), D1225C12B2AP-12 (800 rpm), D1225C12B3AP-13 (1,150 rpm), D1225C12B4AP-14 (1,450 rpm), D1225C12B5AP-15 (1,850 rpm)
- Whole Slip Stream 120mm product line. Models: SY1225SL12SL (500 rpm), SY1225SL12L (800 rpm), SY1225SL12M (1,200 rpm), SY1225SL12H (1,600 rpm), SY1225SL12SH (1,900 rpm)
- Whole Kama Flow 2 120 product line. Models: SP1225FDB12L (900 rpm / DC12V / 0.30A), SP1225FDB12M (1,400 rpm / DC12V / 0.30A), SP1225FDB12H (1,900 rpm / DC12V / 0.38A)
- Whole GlideStream 120 mm fan product line. Models: SY1225HB12SL, SY1225HB12L,SY1225HB12LM, SY1225HB12M, SY1225HB12SM, SY1225HB12H, SY1225HB12SH
- GlideStream 120 mm PWM Fan. Models: SY1225HB12M-P, SY1225HB12SH-P
- Kama FLEX PWM 120, model: SA1225FDB12H-P
- Slip Stream 120 PWM, model: SY1225SL12LM-P. (Please note, that this is different than the PWM fan shipped with Mugen 3 Rev.B. There is difference in model number, letter L before M, and in characteristics:
SY1225SL12LM-P is 200 - 1,300 RPM (+-10%), CFM: up to 74,25 CFM = 126 m³/h, Noise: up to 26,50 dBA whereas
SY1225SL12M-P is 300 - 1,600 RPM (+-10%), CFM: 14.7 - 88.11 CFM = 16.31 - 149.67 m³/h, Noise: 9.60 - 32.15 dBA
- Slip Stream 120 PWM Adjustable, model: SY1225SL12HPVC. Small note: I don't know if, or how, this would work with PWM-splitter. Could someone please confirm/verify?
- Theoretically I could get the same fan as is shipped with Mugen 3 Rev.B - SY1225SL12M-P. I queried one of the local shops and they said it might be possible, i just don't have the reply yet. The other viable way to obtain one could be to buy one additional Mugen heatsink (i will need it in the future) and take its fan. However i'll have to find some other fans for the, now fanless, heatsink in the future - so the task remains.


From the SPCR recommended fans page - the 12cm section, i can get everything (the Scythe fans are listed above):
Noiseblocker M12-S1, Noiseblocker M12-S2, Noiseblocker M12-PS, Nexus Real Silent Case Fan D12SL-12, Antec TrueQuiet 120

To list all the fans that are available is impossible. Above I listed the fans that are recommended by SPCR. Below I will just list all the manufacturers that my local shops can deliver from ( i hope you understand that I don't have a week to rewrite it all, I can however provide links to the shops):

Code:
ACUTAKE      Aerocool      AIMAXX      Airen      Akasa      Alpenföhn
Alphacool      Antec      Arctic      Asus      Arctic Cooling      Be Quiet!
Bee Technology      Coolermaster      Coolink      Deepcool      Delta
BitFenix      Enermax      Exactgame      Fander      Flexiglow       Fractal design
Lepa      Levicom      Nanoxia      Nexus      Noctua      Noiseblocker
NORTHQ      NZXT      Papst      PHANTEKS      PRIMECOOLER      Prolimatech
RECOM      Revoltec      SILENTMAXX      Silverstone      Scythe      Sharkoon
TACENS      THE FESER COMPANY      Thermalright      TITAN      Xigmatek
Xilence      Yate Loon      YSTECH      Zalman

One interresting note:
YateLoon and Papst Lufter I can buy from one of the local shops, but there is also an option for me to buy these fans from [url=noisecontrol.de]noisecontrol.de[/url]. The price is higher only by cca. 1-2 Euro per fan when compared to the same fans offered by local shops, but when I queried the noisecontrol.de they said that the fans, although produced in China, are made to their own specifications and QA-ed in Germany. The shipping is actually not that bad. The only con would be the warranty return in case the fans break down or are shipped damaged.

Here is the link for Papst Lufter and here is the link for the Yate Loons

Maybe someone can shed some light here, whether there is any difference etc... . Haven't you Pappnaas by any chance bought from them? You list that you live in Germany, that's why I am asking.


Anyway, I would like to say, that I am also really genuinely interested in other the questions I had in my original post.


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 Post subject: Re: Hopefully an interesting fan question + plea for advice
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:30 am 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 624
Location: Germany
Hi Karol :)

where to start...

Hm... let's start by the fans for your Mugen. I'd go for the Gentle Typhoons, the 1150 PWM models. I assume that they will cool your CPU at non OC around 600-800 rpm. So that would leave a nice rpm margin when turning to OC. If you want more OC headroom, the next bigger modell should be your choice. That's because it's easily possible to make a fast fan slower....

The YateLoons are superb fans for their price (any Nexus/Noctua/most Scythes will beat them though), but since they are non-pwm i see them as case fans. They would be suited if you run them on fixed voltage knowing that they would cool enough, but i'm afraid you would have to buy and test them to be sure.

Papst fans are legendary, but in my opinion not the only makers of silent fans, as it was true like 10 years ago. Today there are a lot of modells that beat out the Papst, especially when looking at price/value.

I hope to have answered most of your questions,

Hodně pozdravů! (?)

Pappnaas


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 Post subject: Re: Hopefully an interesting fan question + plea for advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 83
Location: eu
kajovajo wrote:
As a consequence we loose the PWM ability of the fans that we had before - thus we no longer can regulate the fans with speedfans and/or the fans no longer can be regulated by motherboard.

That's not necessarily true. I'm able to control non-PWM 3 pin fans with Speedfan on two motherboards I tried.
But only when using the 4 pin motherboard connectors (which I believe has more to do with the motherboard itself and I don't think it's a general rule).
I can get lower speeds with a PWM fan, though (it might even be impossible to stop the PWM fan completely, I'll have to try that sometime).

As for fan recommendations in general: I have two 1200 rpm Slipstreams (non-PWM) on a Mugen 2 and most of the time they run at around 400 rpm. Even when overclocking I don't think I ever had to go over 1000 rpm.

If I were you I'd just make sure that
1. the motherboard supports controlling the speeds (with Speedfan)
and
2. the fans can run at the speeds you want


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