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 Post subject: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:25 am 
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After long time I updated from s775 to s1150.

The new machine is:
ASRock z97 Fatal1ty Killer
i5 4460
4x4GB G.Skill RipjawX 1600MHz

I captured a Prolimatech Genesis for cheap (35euro/aprox.$40).
Although I'm not a performance freak and don't go into overclocking, I like it cool and silent. ;)
So I'm building a good cooling sistem so the fans could spin on lower RPM's without need to spin up a lot.

So my questions would be:
1. Which 2 PWM fans for Prolimatech?
2. Does it make a difference if I put 2x120mm or 1x120mm + 1x140mm? Speaking of RPMs as with 2x120mm I'll get equal RPMs and with other option the RPMs will be different producing unequal frequencies, possibly producing new unwanted (maybe louder) frequencies?

My first choice would be Phateks.....I would avoid Noctuas due to ugly colours
Any other choice?

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:32 am 
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What GPU? its important as most of the Nvidia Kepler/Maxwell GPUs will not be able to control via their GPU 4pin PWM controllers, im not sure AMD, as i havent owned one in a long time, but i have read better results, but so was nvidia before until they changed something.

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:38 am 
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Location: ITALY
23-D wrote:
1. Which 2 PWM fans for Prolimatech?

Because of the noise signature, the old Scythe Slipstream (if you can find them, but here they are still easily sourceable).
Cooling wise, maybe some Noctuas are a tad better.


23-D wrote:
I would avoid Noctuas due to ugly colours
Any other choice?

You can pick the Noctua Redux, they have a (usually) a bit more agreable color scheme.
On the other hand, the 120mm PWM Phanteks do not look like that quiet (even if, to be fair, SPCR didn't tested it with a PWM drive, IIRC).

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:48 am 
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Abula wrote:
What GPU?


Acctually not so important because I usually use some passively cooled low budget graphic card.
I will probably buy Asus R5 240.
I'm not a gamer. The machine is for raster and vector graphics and for movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Location: Guatemala
23-D wrote:
Abula wrote:
What GPU?
Acctually not so important because I usually use some passively cooled low budget graphic card.
I will probably buy Asus R5 240.
I'm not a gamer. The machine is for raster and vector graphics and for movies.
For a GPU this low, if you have some airflow i bet you go fanless, specially into how massive the MK-26 is. Im not too sure, but from what i seen this are half sized, not sure if the MK-26 would fit though, or is it safe. Either way, as i said earlier, i have no experience with AMD cards into aftermarket coolers and if they can control standard PWM fans, i know that Nvidia can't at least with the included prolimatech 4pin pwm gpu adapter to 4pin standard pwm fan, but i have not seen complaints, so im guessing AMD has a more standard PWM design, so might work.

23-D wrote:
1. Which 2 PWM fans for Prolimatech?
Really depends into how you want to control them, or if the GPU is capable of controlling PWM fans or not. But lets assume it can, my first pick on PWM fans on 120mm would be Noctua NF-S12A PWM due to its range of operation, they can drop extremely low or ramp up as you set them up. I leave you a graph of an NF-S12A PWM ran on Asus Maximus VI Gene on a CPU_FAN (true pwm fan header) that its tested with FanXpert2,

Image

My first pick on 140mm fans, would be Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 140mm x 15mm Slim Profile PWM Fan - (120mm Mounting Pattern), they are slim so will not weight as much, they have good static pressure (search the web you will test vs multiple fans), they look good (at least i think they do), and they have a good range of operation controlled via PWM, you do need to get the special mounting clips Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 Fan Wire Clip Set - MK-26 Series. I leave you a graph on fanXpert2 for you to check the range of operation. it should idle around 450rpms (if the cards allows it).

Image

Now lets assume it wont work with PWM, so you wont be able to control them via the GPU vbios or software. Then my pick would a ver low RPM 120mm fan, Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120 mm D1225C12B1AP-11 (500 rpm), wonderful quiet and they have real ball bearing so they shoudlnt have issues with horizontal placement. Although you wont be able to control them, i leave you the graph on FanXpert2 just for you to know you can still undervolt them if you wish.

Image

As a last option since you like phantek, personally i feel they are very good quality and decent sonic signature, but on PWM they dont go as low as noctuas, the lowest the Phanteks 140mm Case/Radiator Cooling PWM Fan (PH-F140XP_BK) can go is 600rpms, also they will weight putting more strain on the gpu. I leave you a graph of it,

Image

23-D wrote:
2. Does it make a difference if I put 2x120mm or 1x120mm + 1x140mm? Speaking of RPMs as with 2x120mm I'll get equal RPMs and with other option the RPMs will be different producing unequal frequencies, possibly producing new unwanted (maybe louder) frequencies?
All fans have different characteristics, not to say difference in size, but chose carefully and a 120 or 140 can be as quiet, the 140 having the advantage of being bigger needing less rpms to move equal amount of air (if all others variables are constant), and in 120 the advantage is that there are a lot more options to chose from, specially since you care about the looks. But overall there are good options for both, so really wouldn't worry too much about this.

23-D wrote:
My first choice would be Phateks.....I would avoid Noctuas due to ugly colours. Any other choice?
As Quest already posted, Noctua now has recently introduced other color options, to what i remember there is a grey NF-S12A PWM and a black NF-F12, check Noctua introduces two new fan product lines and accessory kits

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Abula wrote:
23-D wrote:
........specially into how massive the MK-26 is.........


WOW, Abula thank you very much for you detailed analisys ;)

BUT....there's been a massive misunderstanding :D

I asked for PWM fans for PROLIMATECH GENESIS CPU COOLER ..... I don't plan to put additional cooling on GPU

THIS.....
Image

AND NOT THIS :D :D :D
Image

Anyway....Thanks a lot.....I learned somethin new ;)

What about Thermalright TY-147? Are they good (and silent) for radiators?

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Sorry, my mistake, i got confused about the GPU somehow.

Well for the prolimatech genesis, i would go with still the same as above prolimatech vortex slim 140s, there are also special mounting clips for them, Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 Fan Wire Clip Set - Genesis Series

Thermalright TY141 (same as TY147 just different color) are also decent for cooling but as the phanteks they dont drop that low, around 750rpms is the least i was able to drop them.

Image

I leave you an interesting video of Vortex vs some of the fans you are considering, Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 vs Noctua vs Thermalright vs Blue Vortex. As long as your motherboard can control well PWM fans, you can drop the vortex to 500rpms, where they are quiet. But if you want fans that can drop lower rpms go wtih Noctua NF-A15 PWM.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:02 am 
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Abula wrote:
Well for the prolimatech genesis, i would go with still the same as above prolimatech vortex slim 140s, there are also special mounting clips for them, Prolimatech Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 Fan Wire Clip Set - Genesis Series
...snipped out...
Thermalright TY141 (same as TY147 just different color) are also decent for cooling but as the phanteks they dont drop that low, around 750rpms is the least i was able to drop them.
...snipped out...
I leave you an interesting video of Vortex vs some of the fans you are considering, Ultra Sleek Vortex 14 vs Noctua vs Thermalright vs Blue Vortex. As long as your motherboard can control well PWM fans, you can drop the vortex to 500rpms, where they are quiet. But if you want fans that can drop lower rpms go wtih Noctua NF-A15 PWM.

You can drop the Vortex (Blue or Sleek) as low as ~350rpm (I measured 330rpm with an Intel mobo, and 370 with an ASUS mobo), anyway, particularly the PWM one (Sleek) has usually an high pitched bearing noise (I got it out 3 of 3 samples), not that obtrusive but easily noticeable.

About the video, IMO it might be somehow indicative for a case fan, a lot less for a heatsink fan (as it seems focused on airflow). Given the low max speed and the usually high price, I don't think that any Vortex is really preferable to the Noctua P14r/s redux, but I won't discard the easily better sounding 120mm option either: usually Prolimatech heatsinks are less sensitive than others - to say, Thermalright - to fan size at the lowest airflow, but mine is just a somewhat educated guess (checked on the Armageddon and the original Megahalems), so YMMV.

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Abula wrote:
Well for the prolimatech genesis, i would go with still the same as above prolimatech vortex slim 140s


Thanks Abula.
You managed to persuade me to take Ultra Sleeks ;)

I just got a pair of TY-150's for a try out from a friend.
I will use them while waiting for Ultra Sleeks delivery, so I will have some reference point.

Those TY-150's are really BIG! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
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Location: Guatemala
23-D wrote:
I just got a pair of TY-150's for a try out from a friend.
I will use them while waiting for Ultra Sleeks delivery, so I will have some reference point.

Those TY-150's are really BIG! :)
I like more the TY150 than the TY141 more cause its drops lower =) and moves more air cause its bigger.

Image

23-D wrote:
Abula wrote:
Well for the prolimatech genesis, i would go with still the same as above prolimatech vortex slim 140s
Thanks Abula.
You managed to persuade me to take Ultra Sleeks ;)
Remember you will depend into your motherboard PWM limitations, Asus on CPU_FAN FanXpert2 (or Speefan if the sensors are supported) should be able to take them down as the graph i posted above, MSI should be pretty close on pure bios, but if your mobo have to high restrictions then it would be the motherboards fault in terms of drooping them as low. Personally i find them pretty good, i didn't end up using them because i couldn't control them with my GTX780 PWM design, but my motherboard could, i just wanted them to be controlled by the GPU temps, since it couldn't i opted for the Accelero (that also had the same issue on the III but the IV is fixed). I would have preferred the MK-26 + Vortex, but the control threw me off. I'm still tempted to try out the Genesis, if i do ill go with Vortex slim 140s for sure, looks so good with black fans and black aluminium, and specially since today remains on SPCR the leading twin tower cooler, but will see... its width that takes a PCIe slot threw me off last time.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:17 am 
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Really nice looking!! I suppose that's the reason for using such a monstrosity with double fans in order to cool a Core i5 :)
Btw, is it possible to replace a memory stick without dismounting the entire thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:26 am 
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LongJan wrote:
Btw, is it possible to replace a memory stick without dismounting the entire thing?
Really will depend on the memory you use, as it will depend on the height of the heatsink to be able to pull it up.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:38 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
particularly the PWM one (Sleek) has usually an high pitched bearing noise (I got it out 3 of 3 samples), not that obtrusive but easily noticeable.
I tested 2, and i didnt hear any bearing noise, i did push them to max speed sometimes, but not for a long time, mostly i payed more attention when they were idling to try to hear motor or bearing noise, but i cant say i found anything at 460rpms, but i dont doubt your comments, maybe different batches idk. I might bring some again, this hole talk about the genesis is burning me =(

23-D wrote:
Abula wrote:
Well for the prolimatech genesis, i would go with still the same as above prolimatech vortex slim 140s


Thanks Abula.
You managed to persuade me to take Ultra Sleeks ;)
I think you should also consider Quests suggestion, the fan looks nice on grey redux,

quest_for_silence wrote:
Given the low max speed and the usually high price, I don't think that any Vortex is really preferable to the Noctua P14r/s redux
Noctua NF-P14r redux 1500 PWM 140mm 1500 RPM 25.8 dBA 4-pin SSO

Image

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Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:43 pm 
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LongJan wrote:
Btw, is it possible to replace a memory stick without dismounting the entire thing?

I don't think so. Only 2 screws hold it in place, not too much work to dismount and remount.
The Genesis is very wide it will probably block the first PCIe slot. I couldn't use it, because that's where my graphics card has to go. Otherwise great cooler.

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:56 am 
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LongJan wrote:
I suppose that's the reason for using such a monstrosity with double fans in order to cool a Core i5 :)


Actually, NO.
It is true that s1150 Haswell cpus generate more heat, but that was not the reason why I decided to go with Genesis.
The idea behind my choice was to place a CPU cooler that:

1. ...has a Top-Down draft so that RAM and MB can benefit from cooling (I was always a fan of Top-Down blowers just because of that)

2. ...needs minimal airflow, so I can keep it silent. I was even thinking of keeping it semi-passive with only Top-Down fan (with a good case airflow of course)

Abula wrote:
I think you should also consider Quests suggestion, the fan looks nice on grey redux


Too late :D
Ultra Sleeks on the way :D :D :D

Anyway....a new question popped out....see you in new topic ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Which PWM fans on i5 Haswell + Prolimatech Genesis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:33 am 
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Abula wrote:
I tested 2, and i didnt hear any bearing noise, i did push them to max speed sometimes, but not for a long time, mostly i payed more attention when they were idling to try to hear motor or bearing noise, but i cant say i found anything at 460rpms, but i dont doubt your comments, maybe different batches idk. I might bring some again, this hole talk about the genesis is burning me =(

It's sort of gentle, not modulated whining, and yes, it can be due to a different production batch.

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