Which part of my desktop PC is loud?

[krainert]

Hi guys. My desktop PC at home has always been quite noisy, and changing to a more quiet case and CPU cooler and a more powerful video card hasn't helped significantly. Here's my current setup:

• Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl
• Case fans: 2 * Fractal Design Silent Series R2 (stock)
• Motherboard: ASUS Rampage II Extreme
• CPU: Intel Core i7-920
• CPU cooler: Zalman CNPS9900 MAX
• Video card: MSI GeForce GTX 970
• PSU: Corsair TX750W

What could be the problem?

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.

The most likely sources are the video card and CPU cooler. Two potential problems:
- coolers aren't seated well, causing high temps and the fans to run at extreme speeds.
- temps are fine and the fan profiles just need to be adjusted.

Is it an idle noise or load noise or both issue?

Take a look at and report your CPU, GPU, and ambient temps as well as the CPU and GPU fan speeds while the system is
- at idle
- while running Prime95 (small FFT)
- while running a gpu stress test like Furmark.

[krainert]

Many thanks!!

- coolers aren't seated well, causing high temps and the fans to run at extreme speeds.

I have previously suspected this as my idle temps have been higher than what I recall they ought to be (but I really know almost nothing of hardware).

- temps are fine and the fan profiles just need to be adjusted.

I guess we'll see from the temp readings

Is it an idle noise or load noise or both issue?

It's fairly loud on idle, a tiny bit louder during CPU stress testing, and a bit more during graphics benchmarking.

Idle temps in degrees Celsius
CPU: 43
GPU: 53
Motherboard: 37

Prime95 (small FFT)
CPU: 70
GPU: 54
Motherboard: 38

3DMark Demo ("Fire Strike")
CPU: 56
GPU: 69
Motherboard: 39

[edh]

First thing and I think you'll already have learnt this: Don't spend money until you understand the problem. Replacing components is hugely expensive and may not necessarily make a system quieter.

I would agree with Steve's approach of looking at temps. How you do it depends upon your system. Speedfan is good for Windows and lm_sensors reports temps on most Linux systems.

To diagnose where noises come from try stopping or disconnecting fans just temporarily. Do this with the side of the case open listen for the difference. Just do it for a few seconds and each time let the fan then spin up again so that you can tell if the noise comes back.

[CA_Steve]

Ok, those temps aren't outrageous, but could be better.

Case:
- Have you removed all of the HDD drive cages you aren't using?
- Case fan setup:
- Are they setup for 1 input and 1 exhaust. (bonehead followup: are they facing the correct direction?)
- Are they connected to the R4's fan controller or the mobo? If the controller - are they set to 5V? If the mobo, how are they controlled?
The Stock R4 fans are a little rumbly at 5V...but I suspect the GPU and CPU fans overwhelm them.

CPU cooler:
- idle temp is much higher than what Guru3D saw with their overvolted i5-750..then again the stock i5-750 is 95W TDP vs your 95W CPU. Two possibilities:
1) temp measurement app is incorrect. What are you using? There's a couple out there, Realtemp, Core Temp, OCCT measure temp, Speed Fan, too. Some are accurate, some aren't. Try a couple. Plus, SpeedFan and OCCT will also provide RPM readings - and this is really helpful for the debug.
- Are you running the cooler in "silent mode" with the inline resistor for the fan?
- How is the fan controlled? It's PWM. Is it plugged into the mobo's CPU fan socket? Is the Bios set for PWM?
2) need to reseat the cooler.

GPU: Really need to know the fan rpm to make any comments.

There's your start.

[MikeC]

This is always worth a scan: How to Identify the Sources of Noise in a PC

Also... if the system is loud at idle, the Corsair TX750 might be a prime culprit. iirc, I stopped looking at the TX series because they weren't in the SPCR ballpark, too noisy even at idle.

[CA_Steve]

The V2 version of the TX released in 2011 moved from CWT sourcing to Seasonic. I expect it's quieter than the V1 tested here in 2008. Downside is the fan is spec'ed at 2800rpm @ 12V. Don't know which the OP has.

[MikeC]

The V2 version of the TX released in 2011 moved from CWT sourcing to Seasonic. I expect it's quieter than the V1 tested here in 2008. Downside is the fan is spec'ed at 2800rpm @ 12V. Don't know which the OP has.

Lots of references to loud V2 on the web as well. Seasonic engineering dept actually prefers aggressive cooling when they can get away with it; they prefer being conservative and safe rather than super quiet. (I know, I've argued with them.)

OP should isolate the PSU, disconnect everything from its output leads, trick it to power on: Break an uncoated metal paper clip in half, use the U piece to connect the GREEN wire and any BLACK wire on the main ATX output cable, then plug the PSU to AC. If it's quiet, great; if not, fan swap or PSU swap is in order.

[krainert]

Hi again,
First of all, I'm so sorry I didn't get back to this earlier. I was writing my master's thesis (which is done now, woohoo) and completely forgot about it.

I tried stopping different fans during idle and listened to the others.

• The rear case fan is very quiet, albeit audible.
• The PSU is almost as quiet.
• The front case fan was not audible over the sounds of any remaining fans (probably as quiet as the rear case fan).
• The CPU fan was very loud.

During idle, SpeedFan says (case fully closed, ie both sides in place):

• CPU0 Fan: 1688 RPM
• CPU: 1699 RPM
• CHA_FAN1: 1987 RPM
• CHA_FAN3: 2128 RPM

After a few minutes of Prime95 (small FFT), none of these speeds changed substantially if at all, although the CPU temp rose to 69 C (also according to SpeedFan). I tried OCCT but couldn't figure out where to read the fan speeds.

So, I suppose that makes the CPU fan the culprit. It's connected to the motherboard, but I don't know how it's being controlled. Any clues? And if I have to re-seat the CPU cooler, is there a particular procedure I should follow?

Thank you guys so much!

[CA_Steve]

Welcome back. Congrats on finishing your thesis.

If the fan speeds don't alter between idle and load and since the rpms are so high at idle, I suspect 2 things:

- Yep, time to reseat the cooler. There's a bunch of guides online that can walk you through it. Here's some basics...
- unplug everything, ground yourself to disharge any static, use isopropyl alcohol to clean both surfaces, when reapplying the thermal compound, place a rice sized amount in the center of the CPU. If you need thermal compound, I like Arctic Cooling Ceramique. There is some curing time, but initial results should be better than what you have previously...unless there's another issue (poor contact between CPU and cooler).

- There are some basic fan controls in your bios. At the moment, they aren't controlling the fans. So, go into the bios and check them out.

[krainert]

Welcome back. Congrats on finishing your thesis.

Thanks!!

I went into BIOS, and as you said, fan control was disabled. I enabled control for case and CPU fans and set both profiles to silent. This actually reduced the noise while idling by a lot. SpeedFan shows CPU0 Fan, CPU, CHA_FAN1, and CHA_FAN3 all running around 800 RPM. When I run Prime95 (same settings as before), CPU0 and CPU jump to 1600 RPM and case fans 1 and 3 reach around 900 and 1900, respectively. Although it is louder than for idle, it's still a lot quieter than before.

I'd like to try and re-seat the CPU cooler and see if that brings down the load noise (and the slightly high) CPU temps further. I think I have some old cooling paste lying around, probably from around three years ago. Should I get new paste for it, or can I use the old one? Also, would stuff like ArctiClean do instead of the alcohol? I see the e-shop where I bought my cooler sells that.

[CA_Steve]

I went into BIOS, and as you said, fan control was disabled. I enabled control for case and CPU fans and set both profiles to silent. This actually reduced the noise while idling by a lot.

Cool.

I'd like to try and re-seat the CPU cooler and see if that brings down the load noise (and the slightly high) CPU temps further. I think I have some old cooling paste lying around, probably from around three years ago. Should I get new paste for it, or can I use the old one?

If it's in a closed tube, it should be fine. Maybe squeeze the first little bit into the trash.

Also, would stuff like ArctiClean do instead of the alcohol? I see the e-shop where I bought my cooler sells that.

Sure, it'll work. But, chances are you have rubbing alcohol sitting in a drawer.

Also, post a photo of the cpu after you remove the cooler. The paste spread pattern will tell whether or not the cooler was seated well. The pics on this page give an idea of good vs bad.

[krainert]

I didn't have any cooling paste around, and I don't have any cleaning alcohol either (aye, it is a poor man's home indeed). So I got the Coollaboratory Liquid Pro compound and the ArctiClean cleanser. I read that the thermal compound will damage aluminium coolers, but mine is supposed to be copper, so I guess that's ok? Now I just have to find a hex key somewhere...

[CA_Steve]

Be careful with that compound as it's electrically conductive. ie: make sure it doesn't go anywhere other than on the CPU and cooler.

[krainert]

Be careful with that compound as it's electrically conductive. ie: make sure it doesn't go anywhere other than on the CPU and cooler.

Thanks, I will.

Another thing: After I enabled fan control in BIOS, I get an error during boot saying CPU fan error, press F1 to continue (on the American Megatrends screen). When I do that, I have no further issues. At first, switching from the silent to the standard CPU fan profile solved it, but now it happens on standard as well. Any ideas what could be causing this, and whether it's serious?

[quest_for_silence]

Any ideas what could be causing this, and whether it's serious?

As far I can understand, it isn't serious: any BIOS has a minumum rpm figure for the CPU FAN header, and when you're below of it, the BIOS will warn you.
You can either set a lower CPU FAN speed threshold in your BIOS, if it's possible (it's specific motherboard dependant), or alternatively you can disable all warnings at boot, which is usually possible to set in any BIOS.

[krainert]

I re-seated the cooler, turning it a quarter round to propel air towards the back of the case rather than up.

Without fan control: 33 degrees on idle, 66 degrees on Prime95
With silent mode fan control: 38 degrees on idle, 71 degrees on Prime95 (although the fans are running at max speed... why is there a difference from no fan control here?)

So, an improvement!

As far I can understand, it isn't serious: any BIOS has a minumum rpm figure for the CPU FAN header, and when you're below of it, the BIOS will warn you.
You can either set a lower CPU FAN speed threshold in your BIOS, if it's possible (it's specific motherboard dependant), or alternatively you can disable all warnings at boot, which is usually possible to set in any BIOS.

I couldn't find anything in the BIOS settings or in the manual (quickly browsed through the fans section). Does anybody know how to do this with the Rampage II Extreme RoG motherboard?

Thanks

[quest_for_silence]

Does anybody know how to do this with the Rampage II Extreme RoG motherboard?

More probably that not, under "Power"/"Hardware Monitor" you should be able to tweak that warning.

[CA_Steve]

Did you remember to look/take a picture of the thermal paste pattern on the CPU?

[MikeC]

Another thing: After I enabled fan control in BIOS, I get an error during boot saying CPU fan error, press F1 to continue (on the American Megatrends screen). When I do that, I have no further issues. At first, switching from the silent to the standard CPU fan profile solved it, but now it happens on standard as well. Any ideas what could be causing this, and whether it's serious?

There's probably some min. rpm below which this msg will show. I just downloaded the manual to take a look at the fan control section... and the board dates all the way back to 2008; it's no surprise that fan controls are more basic than they are in today's Asus boards.

[krainert]

More probably that not, under "Power"/"Hardware Monitor" you should be able to tweak that warning.

Yeah, I found a very counter-intuitive setting letting me disable alerts for the CPU fan. Thanks.

Did you remember to look/take a picture of the thermal paste pattern on the CPU?

Regrettably, no. I didn't consider that. But the old paste looked very uneven, and excessive.

There's probably some min. rpm below which this msg will show. I just downloaded the manual to take a look at the fan control section... and the board dates all the way back to 2008; it's no surprise that fan controls are more basic than they are in today's Asus boards.

Yeah, I haven't replaced the motherboard since I built the machine back in high-school. If it ain't broke, don't replace it I guess!

One last concern: during idle, SpeedFan now shown no CPU fan activity whereas the CPU0 fan (whatever that is) is running as intended. How come? I assume I can ignore it.

[quest_for_silence]

One last concern: during idle, SpeedFan now shown no CPU fan activity whereas the CPU0 fan (whatever that is) is running as intended. How come? I assume I can ignore it.

Post a screenshot of your desktop with SpeedFan along with another utility of choice which correctly shows what you meant.

[krainert]

I haven't been able to reproduce the issue today, but I'll write back if it reappears... with a screenshot!

Thank you all for the help! It's been much appreciated!!