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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:18 pm 
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Bill, I just wanted to let you know that you are the man!

And how 'bout that Doom 3 mod over at the [H] forums, huh? Sweet stuff!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:15 pm 
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Damn, Bill! How many accounts do you have here? :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:59 am 
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Bill, I just wanted to let you know that you are the man!

And how 'bout that Doom 3 mod over at the [H] forums, huh? Sweet stuff!


Thanks Ed! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:04 am 
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Damn, Bill! How many accounts do you have here?


Long story :roll:... I also have one under screen name "mnpctech_guy"

I give permission to Admins to delete that account. Thank you!

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 Post subject: Does anyone know where to buy the recommended JMC fan?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:18 pm 
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I'm stuck with dual 60 mm fans on the D.Vine 5 case I'm using and want to reduce noise. I have a couple of Vantec stealth 60mm that sound like jet engines at 12V. They are running at 5V right now but not enough airflow.

Another option would be to get the new Thermalright XP-120 to replace the Zalman I have now and see if that helps keep the temp down enough that the two 60mm Vantecs will be enough at 5V.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:19 am 
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Why is the recommended fans page not updated with the Globe sleeve 120mm fan and other 92mm fan like AcoustiFan 92mm or SilenX?


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 Post subject: I'm interested in adding the SilenX fans too.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:23 pm 
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These have been the lowest rated fans (dBA wise) that I've found out there, although the lowest rated one only moves 15 CFM @ 9 dBA for an 80mm fan, the 11 dBA fans are also very respectable.

I ordered a couple of the 11 dBA fans to try out in my current case. I can't wait to see how they work out. They also include noise isolating rubber mounts.

Here is a list of available fans from their site (www.silenx.com):

SKU Description Price
SX-040-14 SilenX 40mm 14dBA Fan $14.95
SX-060-08 SilenX 60mm 8dBA Fan $14.95
SX-060-12 SilenX 60mm 12dBA Fan $13.95
SX-060-16 SilenX 60mm 16dBA Fan $12.95
SX-080-09 SilenX 80mm 9dBA Fan $15.95
SX-080-11 SilenX 80mm 11dBA Fan $14.95
SX-080-14 SilenX 80mm 14dBA Fan $13.95
SX-080-14T SilenX 80mm 14dBA Thermistor Fan $11.95
SX-092-09 SilenX 92mm 9dBA Fan $19.95
SX-092-11 SilenX 92mm 11dBA Fan $18.95
SX-092-14 SilenX 92mm 14dBA Fan $17.95
SX-120-11 SilenX 120mm 11dBA Fan $24.95
SX-120-14 SilenX 120mm 14dBA Fan $23.95
SX-FM20 SilenX Fan Mounts - 20 Pack $14.95


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:11 pm 
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geogecko --

FYI, NONE of those dBA numbers ever correlated to any testing I did of a small number of SilenX fans. There is simply NO WAY that ANY of their fans get anywhere close to 14 dBA at 1 meter at 12V. It's pure and utter bull manure.

Looking at the specs for their "14 dB" 80mm fan...

Fan Speed: 2000 RPM
Air Flow: 28 CFM
Noise Level: 14 dBA


Just the airflow turbulence alone of ANY fan pushing 28 cfm with blades chopping at the air at 2000 rpm will put the noise up to at least 20 dBA at 1 meter. The very well documented Panaflo 80L measures (in my lab) 1900 rpm, 29cfm and 24~25 dBA/1m. Its bearing noise is very low as is its turbulence noise compared to most fans. I have listened to and measured literally dozens and dozens of fans -- maybe a hundred models! I don't believe it is possible for any fan to spin that fast and blow that much air and produce only 14 dBA/1m -- that's less than half the noise.

dBA is a sound pressure level (SPL) measurement that varies with distance. Take the same noise source and put the meter 5 meters away, and you might get 10 dBA -- if the background noise is quiet enough to measure this. Bring it to 1 meter and you could easily have 30 dBA. The fact that SilenX does not specify measuring distance makes the numbers immediately suspect. (Also, I find their practise of naming fans by dBA rather odious; way to much markteingspeak, IMO)

Most fan makers' specs on noise should be taken with a sprinkling of salt. You cannot accept them at face value. But some are worse than others.

Sorry if this sounds a bit like a rant; I don't mind the ordinary marketing BS that you have to scrap off the soles of your boots, that's normal; but when the muck reaches up past your knees, then I get really annoyed. :roll: :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:27 pm 
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Wow.

Okay. So, I was a little suspicious at first as well. I have also wondered why manufacturers didn't specify at what distance they were measuring their noise level. From what I've read, the standard distance is supposed to be at 1 meter, but when someone doesn't say so, it's hard to know what it actually is.

I wonder if an e-mail to SilenX would clear up the actual measurement they are doing. I will check up on that, and report back here what I find out.

I've also noticed that most company's fans seem to be rated quite a bit better than the noise they actually produce. That's sad, and I don't really understand why, except to get customer's one time only purchase.

These ratings seem to be on the more dramatic side though, from what you have said. I currently had some innotech (or something, i can't remember exactly) fans in my case, and they are pretty loud, but nothing is quite as loud as my current CPU fan that is pushing 47 dBA (I've recently bought a fan that claims to push about 10-12 CFM less, and have a dBA rating of 21...as long as it's a quarter the noise of the current one, I'd be happy at 41dBA).

So, I guess it's sufficient to say that we won't see these fans in the "quiet list?" I'm dissapointed about that, not that they won't be in your list, but that they are louder than advertised. I was considering their 0dBA fanless power supplie, but unless I see some significant praise reviews of them, I may change my mind.

Thank you for your input. I guess I should have gone with the Panaflo's.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:35 pm 
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geogecko wrote:
I wonder if an e-mail to SilenX would clear up the actual measurement they are doing. I will check up on that, and report back here what I find out.

This is a good read that's relevent

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:49 pm 
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Well, they are fast at replying to e-mail, that's for sure.

The response that I got was that the dBA ratings are taken at 1 meter, and that it is their understanding that this is standard procedure.

If you could see me now, both of my arms would be up in the air in confusion between what has been said here, and what my source has said from SilenX.

I'm sure there will be more good reading now...let it begin.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:09 pm 
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Let me be totally clear:

I did not say SilenX fans are noisy. In fact, they are very quiet, their 80mm fans (don't recall which model) are at least on par with a good Panaflo 80L. That means maybe 21~13 dBA/1m. I have to double check my notes from the interminable fan testing I've been doing.

What I did say was that their marketing & labelling & specs are dubious-to-total BS.

Standard procedure or not, to measure accurately at 14 dBA (regardless o distance) requires a space that has 4~5 dBA LOWER ambient noise. To get a valid 9 dBA measurement, you need a 6~7 dBA ambient space. This calls for the finest anechoic chamber in the world. Somehow I have my doubts on whether SilenX has done any such testing... just judging from previous experience.

-----------
EDITED for atroshus spelling, grammaring & typos :lol:

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Last edited by MikeC on Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:23 pm 
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Well, at least I feel a bit better that I'm getting a decently quiet fan, may not meet their spec, but it should still be better than what was in the case to begin with (an innovative fan).

From what I've gathered, it seems like SilenX is a fairly small sized company, and being that, they probably don't have an expensive anechoic chamber. However, maybe there is a possibility that they use someone elses for a fee.

Is it pointless to ask at this point, HOW they go about measureing such low dBA measurements, i.e., what environment they are in?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:45 pm 
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Hmmm not too sure about how they test. Dont think anyone can give a believable answer unless someone video tapes the process.

Ever tried reading that thread about their dubious marketing? SilenX people made different personas to promote their product and blast other people. Never knew those tactics would even infect this forum...

It's your purchase and you might even pick up a good fan from SilenX :) Some fans from the recommended page have varying quailities so watch out!


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 Post subject: Got my fans in today...interesting information
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:53 pm 
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Well, I got my two 80mm fans in today, and was impressed with what came with the fans. You get screws to mount it, or you can use the silicone mounts. It also comes with a 3 to 4 pin adapter for using with your power supply output.

One thing I noticed, is that it seems obvious that they are using the same fan model, just changing an in-line resistor to make the run slower. (It's covered up by a very long piece of shrink wrap, almost the entire wire.)

One of the more interesting things were the "Notes" section on the back panel of the packaging. I thought you might all find this interesting, and the picture speaks for itself. I guess we assumed wrong.

Image

The fans seem pretty quiet, although they are out noised by my current 47dBA CPU fan (about to be replaced with a quieter fan), and the PSU fans are running at a higher RPM than these. Overall, I'm happy with them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:24 am 
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I guess if it says it on the packet... it must be true. [Humour] Will you be humbly offering an apology Mike? [/Humour]

And if anyone can explain to me the point of measurements being taken "along each of the 3 axis" bearing in mind no matter which way you orient the fan, two will be 'side' measurements and surely identical.... (just to keep to 'standards' maybe?)


Pete


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:54 am 
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[quote="peteamer"] Will you be humbly offering an apology Mike? [/Humour]
I will be offering the results of my own SPL measurements at 1m along with sound recordings. ;)

Soon.

Currently, the lab is in chaos, has been for a few days. I've doing morec carpentry than writing or testing right now, expanding into what used to be the spare guest bedroom -- a 12x11' space. Hoping this will reduce clutter & confusion & keep stiff from migrating to places where Betty can trip over them. :lol: :lol:

Seriously, the exisiting lab space just just too small, all it took was one new project / review item to be tackled and it would go into physical overload. This will make it easier & better for the lab assistants as well. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:17 am 
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What if one measures the noise from the front of the fan (from the "suck" side, not the "blow" side)? Or from the side? The pic says "along each of the 3 axis". Maybe they measured them all and put the lowest measurement on the paper. :?

No, I'm not defending SilenX.

Cheers,

Jan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:23 am 
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Jan Kivar wrote:
What if one measures the noise from the front of the fan (from the "suck" side, not the "blow" side)? Or from the side? The pic says "along each of the 3 axis". Maybe they measured them all and put the lowest measurement on the paper. :?

No, I'm not defending SilenX.

Cheers,

Jan

Doesn't matter which axis -- the trouble is 14 dBA@1m / 2000rpm / 28cfm. Those 3 numbers just don't add up. I would challenge any fan / propeller blade maker to create a design that would meet those specs for any price. I just don't think it is physically possible. Now getting something like 6~800rpm / 28cfm from a really good 120mm fan and have it make just 14 dBA/1m; that might just be doable. But 28 cfm & 14 dBA/1m from at 80mm fan? No sir-ree!! Not unless you use pixie dust. :lol:

For reference: the quietest 80mm fan measured so far at 12V is the Nexus 80, which blows 18~19cfm at ~1500rpm at a noise level of ~20 dBA/1m.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
Currently, the lab is in chaos, has been for a few days. I've doing morec carpentry than writing or testing right now, expanding into what used to be the spare guest bedroom -- a 12x11' space. Hoping this will reduce clutter & confusion & keep stiff from migrating to places where Betty can trip over them. :lol: :lol:

Seriously, the exisiting lab space just just too small, all it took was one new project / review item to be tackled and it would go into physical overload. This will make it easier & better for the lab assistants as well. :)


I think I speak for the lab assistants when I say, YAY.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:24 pm 
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Are all the 120mm Recommended Fans 25mm thick? (Shouldn't thickness be listed in the table? The oddball section has thicknesses for fans...)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:24 am 
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wrong wrote:
Are all the 120mm Recommended Fans 25mm thick?


Yes they are.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:56 pm 
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I think it'd be nice to have RPM and CFM values listed also for the "interesting" fans. This would be useful if one, say, currently have one of the "interesting" ones and wants to replace it with a "recommeded" one while keeping the same CFM values.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:53 pm 
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Can we see some 140mm fans included in the list?

I know GLOBE make some and are used in Superflower/TTGI psu's.

To me they are very quiet and there are more 140mm psu's creeping into the market!


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 Post subject: globes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:54 pm 
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You can't buy a globe 1202512L-3M in the us so I doubt that you could buy a 140. Maybe in europe.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:57 am 
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Hola!

I was wondering if there'd been anymore progress on the silenx fan testings. I was about to pay the premium until I read about all the BS the company was doing several years ago, but now I'm weary...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:19 am 
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fallenturtle: the reference fans for SPCR for 120mm and 92mm are Nexus. Buy those, they're cheaper and definetly quieter (plus, unlike most fans, HAVE ACCUERATE SPECS).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:35 am 
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Shadowknight wrote:
fallenturtle: the reference fans for SPCR for 120mm and 92mm are Nexus. Buy those, they're cheaper and definetly quieter (plus, unlike most fans, HAVE ACCUERATE SPECS).


That doesn't really answer my question. I want to know if anyone has put SilenX's published specs to the test... except for the negative feedback involving their gurilla marketing several years ago, all I can find is positive information on them. Since the SPCR community most likely as a partial bias against SilenX I would even more value their data as it would likely hedge on the negative... or worse case scenero (no pun intended!).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:33 pm 
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I have a couple of SilenX 120mm 14dba fans. Haven't put the published specs to test but what I can tell you is IMHO they are louder than 14dba.

I have a Aerocool Turbine 120mm fan which is rated at just under 20dba. The Aerocool is quieter than the SilenX fans.

I sought advice from a couple of people before purchasing the fans and all I can say the 'quiet' they were referring to isn't 'quiet' by SPCR standards.

Having said that when undervolted they do seem to be quiet but obviously push less air.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:01 pm 
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fallenturtle wrote:
Shadowknight wrote:
fallenturtle: the reference fans for SPCR for 120mm and 92mm are Nexus. Buy those, they're cheaper and definetly quieter (plus, unlike most fans, HAVE ACCUERATE SPECS).


That doesn't really answer my question. I want to know if anyone has put SilenX's published specs to the test... except for the negative feedback involving their gurilla marketing several years ago, all I can find is positive information on them. Since the SPCR community most likely as a partial bias against SilenX I would even more value their data as it would likely hedge on the negative... or worse case scenero (no pun intended!).


How can we do that? We'd have to know how SilenX got the numbers for themselves in the first place--i.e. their testing methodology, their equipment etc. Anybody can take a sound meter that reads that low and fudge around the testing method until they get the same figure; if I took one of their fans and ran it at 12V in an anechoic chamber and then picked up the sound meter and walked away from the fan until it read 9dBA, well heck, it only puts out 9dBA! We have no clue how SilenX does their testing and as such, cannot prove or disprove their figures, anyway. There's no standard for acoustic testing in this industry and even if there were, it would be remarkably difficult to force industry players, particularly smaller ones, to be honest in following standards to the t.

-Ed

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