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 Post subject: What else can I do to silence my computer?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:15 pm 
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Ok, I think I have most things covered, but please, let me know:

CPU Fan: SLK900a with a Vantec Stealth 92mm (20dBA)
PSU Fan: 80mm Panaflo L1A (20dBA)
GPU Fan: None, passive
NB Fan: None, passive
No Case Fans.

I am at 55C load, 37C case. I have a mobile XP-M 2600 2GHZ oc'd to 2.150GHZ (I can push to 2.5, but my temps are high enough), with a ABIT NF7-S v2.0 and 512 MB PC3200 oc'd to PC3500 of CH-5, timings 2-2-2-11.

HDD's: 2x40GB 4500rpm's Quantum lct20's. These are mounted without actually touching the case, I bought some strethy elastic pant material (you know the ones for track pants), looped it around 2 spare 5 1/4's and 'mounted' (actually, well they're resting on the material) them onto the elastic thread. No vibrations, or at least tried to minimize.

Anything else I can do? I have a CDRW and DVD that are mounted with one screw, but since I don't use it much it doesn't make any other noise.

What other routes can I go? I don't have fan grommets, but only the PSU fan is hooked to metal, the CPU one is on the Heatsink...

Simon


Last edited by simms on Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm 
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Ditch the Vantec Stealth and get a silent fan for that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:22 pm 
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...isn't the stealth a silent fan? other reccomendations?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:57 pm 
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Nope, the "Stealth" is pretty noisey, esp at 12V. If you use a quieter fan though your CPU temp will go up. What about case fans? Open up the casze and have a listen youself, you should be able to identify the loudest component. Breifly unplug the CPU fan and then plug it back in and gague the noise level and tone with and without the CPU fan on.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:32 pm 
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What alternative 92mm fan would you recommend then? I don't think I want to unplug my CPU fan to see how quiet it can be, then risk frying my CPU (2600 XP-M).

I have no case fans.

Simon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:38 pm 
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I would recommend getting a case fan. Even if your CPU temps are safe, all that heat is going out the PSU and stressing it more than it should. Getting a case fan will lower your CPU and case temps, which should then allow you to use a slower fan on your CPU. Even at 5V, a case fan will make a huge difference.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:45 pm 
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Sounds good. Only fans I have lying around are a Vantec Stealth 80mm though.

What would be a good option.. installing the Vantec 80mm as a case intake fan, and 7Ving the 2 Vantec's?

I don't think I want to do a 7V mod, is my only other alternative to use a rheobus?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:01 pm 
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I have a vantec stealth too and would ditch it but i got it for 4 bucks so i dont complain. Replace it with an aerocool if you can't decide which 92mm are good. To me, the aerocool is a great price with a great performance...If i get some money i'll have SPCR review it. You're temps are high for using a thermalright. You should think about ducking it. Thats about it. Get a fanmate for you fans as well. Either that or the nexus -201 fan controller


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:05 pm 
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Put the fan as an exhaust. You can 5V if it starts reliably. Cut the grills if there are any, and like LC said, get some fanmates or a controller to slow them down. I think with a case fan your temps should go down, and a duct probably isn't necessary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:36 pm 
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Ducking it? What is that?

I've also OC'd it a bit. I was thinking about getting this controller..
http://www.genitechcomputers.com/produc ... index.html
That's in CDN prices. I've never heard of Aerocool... but I'll look into them.

I don't want to 7V mod because that'll damage my PSU. I can try to 5V it, that's just to use a molex and move the 5V over to the 12V plug right?

My grills aren't that bad, I'll post a pic ...

Ok, so it should go exhaust even though I have no intakes, and my PSU already does exhaust?

Thing is, i don't have any 5.25 inch drives free (2 for IDEs, 2 for CD/DVD). Only thing I have left is a 3.5 left and the rheobus won't fit in that (Not that one, anyways).

Simon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:46 pm 
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What case are you using?

Visit www.endpcnoise.com and www.siliconacoustics.com

I have experience with the 12cm papst. It is very good. I've had a clicky 80mm Papst but have heard good things about Nexus fans. PC Power and Cooling is supposed to have a good 92mm fan. ADDA (SilenX?) has good fans.

Zalman fanmates or the rheobus you mentioned will allow you to undervolt your fans.

Definately add a case fan. Also, I've heard the Vantec Stealth is noisy.


Last edited by Trip on Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:51 pm 
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Let's see. I don't think I can use a rheobus. No space, and not a lot of cash. I would probably rather 5V my other fans. Where do you think the case fan should go?

I just upgraded a few weeks ago. I have a SLK900a, that is good enough right now. :) My case is just some cheap OEM one I picked up for $40, it's just looks good.

Hmm. Insulation would be good, but wouldn't that block airflow/increase temps? Is there something I can pick up at Home Depot or something?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:57 pm 
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Bah, I just edited out that insulation comment. That's supposed to be one of the final steps to take (after EVERYTHING else).

I've got some insulation but never cut and applied it. Generally it's applied to areas that would normally have dead air. Ralf Hutter or someone else in here did a test and found it didn't affect temps. in his case. I imagine it depends on where it is placed and could even help temps. by directing airflow. I ordered mine from Mcmaster-carr. The two websites I listed above offer some acousitpack.

Closed cell Melamine foam is good too.

Just switch out those fans and see how that goes.

EDIT: case fan as exhaust


Last edited by Trip on Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:00 pm 
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http://www.simon-leung.com/img/IMGPSU.JPG

There's a shot of my case. Yellow arrow is the L1A 80mm.
Blue arrow is the place where my exhaust WOULD go (5V Stealth 80mm, planning)

Switch the 92mm Stealth to an Aerocool? What about the 80mm?
Think I need to cut out my fan grills?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:04 pm 
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That's a pretty restrictive grill. You may consider cutting it out. Also, drilling some holes in the bottom of your case near the front or opening the intake vent more should help if it's restrictive.

Panaflo L1A is supposed to be better than the Zalman fan.

Cutting info.

You don't have to cut it out though. Just start with adding the case fan and go from there :wink:


Last edited by Trip on Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:06 pm 
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Don't cut the grill for the PSU one right, just the top case one (The blue arrow)?

So you suggest I get 80mm and 92mm L1A's instead of using my stealths...? Just checking. :)

Simon

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:28 pm 
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I have a 92mm L1A and it's not as quiet as the 80mm... I've heard others complain that it's a little noisy too.

My recommendation, heh and I have no experience with either, is to go with 2 Nexus 80mm and a Nexus 92mm. Grab a fanmate with a splitter adapter cable for the 2 Nexus 80mm and a second fanmate for the 92mm.

The L1A is supposed to be better than the Zalman but the Nexus is a slower moving fan and is supposed to top even the L1A in noise/CFM at low speeds.

Nexus 92 moves 27 CFM, Vantec Stealth 92 28 CFM, L1A 92 42.7 CFM (though it undervolts a little farther than the Nexus, for low noise/CFM Nexus is better)

On cutting, right, don't cut the PSU grill. It's already fairly open and a metal piece might get into the PSU.

Be sure to remove everything from your case before cutting and to wipe it clean when you're done. One little metal piece can destroy your system. It's not that much of a bother, just takes five minutes to clean, but metal shavings and pieces get everywhere.


Last edited by Trip on Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:29 pm 
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BTW - I know grommets are $2 a piece, but Silicon Acoustics has $15 shipping to Canada. Can anyone buy/send them to me and I pay them back? I have 50+ Heatware and 30+ eBay..

Use 2 80mms? Aren't the Nexus' louder than the Stealths? So if the 92 is louder than the 80, why not use an 80mm on my CPU fan?

You're saying to use 3 fans, I assume you mean swap out my PSU L1A fan and use a Nexus, use another 80mm Nexus as an exhaust and use the 92 for the CPU (but maybe I should use an 80 because those are quieter than the 92's)?

No Canadian stores are selling the Fanmate. I'd also need that from a US store as well...

Simon


Last edited by simms on Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:34 pm 
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You need 8? I'll see how many I have...

EDIT: No, I have 8 60mm isolators, but none for 80mm isolators (the 60mm isolators are useless. The 80s work better even for 60mm fans)


Last edited by Trip on Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:37 pm 
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8-16? I could always use a few extra, and then I wouldn't have to ask people to pay for shipping if I needed a few extra.

Either way, if you could help me out, that would be appreciated.


Use 2 80mms? Aren't the Nexus' louder than the Stealths? So if the 92 is louder than the 80, why not use an 80mm on my CPU fan?

You're saying to use 3 fans, I assume you mean swap out my PSU L1A fan and use a Nexus, use another 80mm Nexus as an exhaust and use the 92 for the CPU (but maybe I should use an 80 because those are quieter than the 92's)?

No Canadian stores are selling the Fanmate. I'd also need that from a US store as well...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:05 pm 
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simms wrote:
BTW - I know grommets are $2 a piece, but Silicon Acoustics has $15 shipping to Canada. Can anyone buy/send them to me and I pay them back? I have 50+ Heatware and 30+ eBay..

Use 2 80mms? Aren't the Nexus' louder than the Stealths? So if the 92 is louder than the 80, why not use an 80mm on my CPU fan?

You're saying to use 3 fans, I assume you mean swap out my PSU L1A fan and use a Nexus, use another 80mm Nexus as an exhaust and use the 92 for the CPU (but maybe I should use an 80 because those are quieter than the 92's)?

No Canadian stores are selling the Fanmate. I'd also need that from a US store as well...

Simon
I'll find the Mcmaster-carr thread in a sec. They have a good price on fan isolators, dunno about shipping to Canada though.

Actually, I meant 2 Nexus 80mm case fans. Double the noise is only 3 dB louder and your PSU fan is probably running much louder than it would with the case fans there. 2 fully undervolted Nexus fans will be 3 dB louder than 1, but they should reduce the PSU's speed. Also, the CPU temps should drop so that fan could then be undervolted further.

On the 92mm fan, it pushes more CFM/dB than a 80mm fan at that level of CFM. 92mm produces lower noise as well.

I found this. These are supposedly ADDA fans and run a little slower. (not 9dB though). If shipping is good, just order the quietest SilenX fans as well as isolators. I have experience with 3 60mm ADDA fans and was very pleased.

Directron is another company to look at. http://www.frontierpc.com/ is in canada. I gotta run, good luck!

If you decide you only need one case fan, seal off the other case fan opening with some tape or a piece of paper/plastic.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:44 pm 
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I'll put in another 80mm fan at 5V. Think I should switch the CPU fan to 5V as well instead of 12V?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:33 pm 
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i've lost track of how many fans you need....

The nexus is a really good fan to use. Use that.
I own a stealth and its wrong about its dba. So that should put an end to any idea of stealth being more "silent" then nexus.

Leave the L1A in the PSU...just know that you can't undervolt it under hot conditions due to its CFM.

Run only max of 4 fans total. ( 1 PSU, 1 rear/exhaust, 1 front, 1 CPU).

Those fans should all be controlled via fanmate or fan controller.

Check your TIM again cause you have awefully high CPU temps for a thermalright, especially since you live in canada.

Do what people say and seal off any unused fan space.

Suspend your hard drive, not nessesarily in the 5.25 bay. I forgot who did it but the person used bungy cord and suspended them from the 3.5 dock/cage.

That should solve you're whole problem, and FRY's/Outpost.com sells the Aerocool. That's if you can't afford anymore nexus/papst/panaflo fan.

hope this all helps


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:05 am 
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simms wrote:
I'll put in another 80mm fan at 5V. Think I should switch the CPU fan to 5V as well instead of 12V?


If it'll undervolt that low. Some will go even lower, but keep in mind that fans age and will require higher voltages as they age. Be sure to give it a little more than it needs to start b/c it may need that after a few months.

I don't think an intake fan will be very helpful, but YMMV. As long as there are some holes for intake, you should be good, but an intake hole near the exhaust fan won't help. You want that air to pick up heat and then be exhausted.

When you add the exhaust fan, the CPU fan and PSU fan should be able to run slower for the same temps. You'll just have to see how the CPU temps fare under load to know how low you can undervolt.

Try not to bother the heatsink too much b/c the thermal paste can be squeezed out. My CPU runs about 8'C warmer than it did when I first installed it b/c of my tinkering.

When you're silencing your system, try starting it with the PSU fan stopped and then try plugging and unplugging the CPU fan while it's running. That'll tell you which fan is making the most noise. Several quiet fans are totally drowned out by one much louder fan. ie. 4 fans at 12dB are 18dB while 1 fan at 21dB is twice as loud. If the fans are pulling in the right direction, they can pull more CFM/dB than fewer fans. The problem with too many fans is misplaced fans.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:21 am 
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I got a little confused reading through all the posts so I'll just answer what I think is relevant.

Right now, you have a very noisy (Vantec 92) fan blowing on a very good heatsink that also requires high airflow around it to function properly. And you're using a thin, resonant case with probably a low-quality PSU (if you're using the one that came with the case) modded with a very low capacity fan to exhaust all air in the system. If my above reasoning is correct, you have a noisy computer that'll also probably have a very short life (due to PSU issues)

1. If you ARE using the stock PSU (i believe that case is one of those $30 cases including 300W PSU), get a good quality PSU. The best investment you can do.

2. If you are using a quality PSU modded with an L1A, you definitely need to provide very good case ventilation from somewhere else. That somewhere else is through the very restricted exhausts that everybody's been telling you to cut. Do that, cut both grills.

3. Mount two quiet fans with elastic screws or use the ziptie mounting method with rubber washers. The case material looks like it'd resonate a lot otherwise.

4. Put a better fan on the Thermalright.

Now for the case fans.

For the CPU, you'll need something with good enough airflow to push air through the fins of the thermalright yet remain quiet enough. Personally I've tried a Zalman 92mm @ 5V, Panaflo 92mm L1A @ 5V and a Nexus 92mm @ 12V. I liked the Nexus best. Not only does it cool very adequetly and is very silent @ 12V to begin with, the airflow noise when mounted on a thermalright is significantly lower than the others too. My other alternative would be the Zalman @ 5V which is a very good balance between airflow & noise.

For the back fans, you could use Nexus (I don't know their 80mm versions but their other fans are simply perfect) or use undervolted panaflos. Stay away from the Vantecs. Only at 5V are Vantecs acceptable at which point they don't push much air.

The advantage to using Nexus fans is they run quiet at 12V so you don't need to do any mods or buy fanbuses or anything. Just plug them in and go. Zalman fans usually come with extra resistors so getting them to turn slower is also quite easy. (My belief in the usefulness of fanbusses has gone down a lot. I prefer direct 5V feeds or resistors)

Remember that Thermalright heatsinks like a lot of airflow AROUND them. This means as long as you have bad airflow whatever fan you put on it will have a hard time cooling. Check your cabling, check your front air intakes, make sure your case airflow is good enough. Then you can easily go with a slow fan on the SLK900.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:32 am 
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Whoooops!!! Are you checking your hdd temps?

I mean, ok you're using 4500 rpm drives so they should heat up much less than 7200 rpm drives but you've got them suspended up in the 5-1/4 space and you have almost no case airflow !!!! You're definitely putting them in harm's way. If those drives support SMART, install DTemp and check your drive temps.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:34 am 
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great posts. good point about the higher flow fan for the heatsink.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:19 am 
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burcakb wrote:
If those drives support SMART, install DTemp and check your drive temps.


I'd second that. My own silencing project left me with dangerously hot HDDs (>50C). I now have a slow Panaflo exclusively blowing air straight at the underside of my drive; that keeps it within a degree of the case temperature (<35C).

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:51 am 
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simms wrote:
What alternative 92mm fan would you recommend then? I don't think I want to unplug my CPU fan to see how quiet it can be, then risk frying my CPU (2600 XP-M).

I have no case fans.

Simon


I said to do it breifly, there is no harm. Even better boot the CPU and hit Del to go into the BIOS where the CPU temp won't go fast at all. I have a 2500+ M at 1.45V and I can run stable (idle) for a long time before Windows will crash and that's all it will do. Your CPU would only burn up if you had no HS on it or it wasn't connected right.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:00 pm 
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Thanks for all of your replies, much appreciated.

I'll unplug the 92 Stealth and get back to you on how much of a difference it makes.

The PSU is actually an Enlight pull that I've had since 00 or so, I pulled the cheapy PSU out. That L1A in there, I probably don't want to mod because I don't feel like opening up the PSU again.

I tried installing DTemp on my computer, but it wouldn't give me the readings on the HDD's. I know I have SMART on my mobo (N7F-S v2.0) so I don't understand what's wrong.

Turns out the only Canadian store with the Nexus is here: http://inmax.ca/InmaxContent/product.html#ACC
And that's for $20 each. Where can I get them cheaper? Judging by that, I'd probably have to go for Aerocools.
Which model Aerocool's should I get?

burcakb, where should I be mounting these two fans you suggested in pt 3? in the exhaust? I would love some grommets, but shipping those is ridiculous.

If anyone has spare fans or grommets, I'll gladly pay for them.[/b]


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