Thermalright XP120 cooler: The new King

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:42 am

acaurora wrote:But perhaps you could just rely on the exhaust fan instead of adding additional height to it with a 120mm fan?

Perhaps, but:

1) You'd probably want the fins of the heatsink to be facing the correct direction (parallel to the path of the airflow generated by the rear exhaust fan),

-and-

2) Will the XP-120 even work well enough to cool a CPU in this semi-passive mode?

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:38 pm

acaurora wrote:But perhaps you could just rely on the exhaust fan instead of adding additional height to it with a 120mm fan?

Unlikely unless you have a really low temp CPU; the fin spacing of the XP120 is too tight -- and this has already been covered earlier in the thread.

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:06 pm

Ah I see. Oh well. Was worth a shot anyways. *throws idea of XP120 fanless in an Aria out the window*

GlassMan · Post by **GlassMan** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:51 pm

Removed the fan off my amd 3200+, underclocked to 200x10, the computer ran windows stuff with no problem at 70C indicated but folding@home caused temps to rise to 88C, so I stopped f@h before it crashed, temps quickly dropped to 80C, then slowly returned to 70C. As you can tell my board shows temps on the high side, 80C indicated reads as 55C on my temp probe, but of course that temp is low.
Note: forgot to reduce cpu voltage to 1.47v from 1.57v (2500Ghz). The 120mm exhaust fan is (edit:out 25% obscured), even with the edge of the heatsink and (end edit)the fins are at 90D to airflow, disrupting convection. The psu fan is horizontal and extends past the cpu. No attempt was made to optimize air flow. The arctic cooling nv5 removing gpu heat from the case helped. The CM Stacker case probably contributed to low case temps, but the large vents did not contribute to controlled air flow.
From these results the xp 120 shows the potential to run a modern cpu in a semi-passive mode. It is clear to me that a 120mm bottom breathing psu fan would supply air movement in the proper direction, removing the rear exhaust would allow convection to take place. The closely spaced fins do not present much restiction to the low air speeds of convection and the heat pipes make the exterior, not the interior the warmest part of the heat sink. A good intake air supply would probably be a necessity.

Cpu at 2500Ghz, folding@home vantec stealth fan
@1440rpm temp 66-67C
960 rpm .... 68-69
780 rpm .... 70-71
540 rpm .... 73-74
Temps definitely rise exponentially as fanspeed declines, but temps at minimal fan speed are superior ( 5C lower) than the thermaltake silent boost at full speed, under the same conditions.
It would be worth trying as a challenge, if you have the parts lying around but the NCU-2000 would be a better choice for a purpose built machine

jabba · Post by **jabba** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:42 am

Ralf, do you remember any of the RPM numbers from the fans you tested?

Also, in using an XP-120 in a normal intel mobo in a case such as a BQE, the fan will stick out far enough to be near the middle of the exhaust fan that would make a sideway T intersection. Perhaps someone with an XP-120 and BQE combination might be able to say for sure. Maybe this is more clear:

|—

(| Exhaust) (— CPU Fan)

Now, would you even bother with an exhaust (esp if there was an intake)? The two fans in a 90 degree configuration might create extra turbulence or fight each other.

Or would you use the CPU Fan in a suck or blow configuration knowing the exhaust fan is immediately next to it blowing air out of the case? Kind of a toss up of which would work better.

Also, hypothetically, if you already owned a CNPS7000A-Cu, is this thing so much greater/quieter that you would plunk down an extra $50 to get it?

Any feedback appreciated.

brett · Post by **brett** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:02 am

Can anyone with experience of the XP-120 tell me how the heatpipes are connected to the heatsink fins (at the top of the heatsink - cool side)?

I would like to free them from the fins, bend them and connect them to a large external heatsink for passive cooling as per fmah's design.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/modules.p ... 114&page=1

thanks

Brett

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:46 am

jabba wrote:Ralf, do you remember any of the RPM numbers from the fans you tested?

Both Panaflos and the Evercool had no rpm monitoring so all I know is what voltage I was feeding them. The Globe had rpm monitoring and I'm pretty sure I posted some rpm numbers near the bottom of the second page in this very thread. LMK if you need more and I'll see what I can dig up.

jabba wrote:Also, in using an XP-120 in a normal lintel mobo in a case such as a BQE, the fan will stick out far enough to be near the middle of the exhaust fan that would make a sideway T intersection. Perhaps someone with an XP-120 and BQE combination might be able to say for sure.

Yes, it sticks out about 35% of the way over the rear fan. But it's about an inch away from it. It's really not way different than the configuration you get using an SLK900 with a 92mm fan, or even a Zalman 7000 for that matter.

jabba wrote:Now, would you even bother with an exhaust (esp if there was an intake)? The two fans in a 90 degree configuration might create extra turbulence or fight each other.

Or would you use the CPU Fan in a suck or blow configuration knowing the exhaust fan is immediately next to it blowing air out of the case? Kind of a toss up of which would work better.

Good questions, and something that's easy enough to figure out just by playing with the configuration. Which I'm in the process of trying to get around to right now.

jabba wrote:Also, hypothetically, if you already owned a CNPS7000A-Cu, is this thing so much greater/quieter that you would plunk down an extra $50 to get it?

Short answer: yes.

It cools better than the Z-7000 at all voltages, even with the very quiet 120mm Globe fan. Not only is the Globe quieter than the Zalman fan, it's sound is a bit lower in pitch and it has less clicking. This makes it much more pleasant to listen to.

The XP-120 would also be a better choice if you were running a hot CPU like a 3.0, 3.2 etc P4. With these higher temp CPUs, the Z-7000 is starting to run out of steam and would need to be run at 7-8 volts to cool decently. At those sort of settings it's fan is becoming pretty noticeable.

jabba · Post by **jabba** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:12 am

Thanks for the insight. I'll order one i think eventually from a vendor that includes the K8 RM.

GlassMan · Post by **GlassMan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:22 am

Brett, the pipes appear to be soldered into holes in the fins

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:11 pm

GlassMan wrote:Brett, the pipes appear to be soldered into holes in the fins

Yes, I concur. They appear to be soldered using soft solder.

JohnAStebbins · Post by **JohnAStebbins** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:53 pm

hero wrote:Looks like someone had the cajones. I didn't think fanless would be an option.

Regarding fanless operation. I've achieved it by a combination of underclocking/undervolting and use of the XP-120. I've been assembling a machine I intend to use as a video server and playback device for my media room. I'm not designing for absolute silence (the server itself will be in another room), but I do want long term stability and reliability.

The machine:
Epox 8KDA3+ mobo (nForce 250gb chipset)
Athlon 64 3000+ Newcastle

I run:
64bit Linux distro Fedora Core 2.
lm_sensors for low level device support of sensors.
cpuspeed to control clock and voltage
fancontrol to control fan speed

The software monitors CPU load to adjust cpu clock and voltage.
It monitors cpu temp to adjust fan speed.

When decoding divx video, cpu clock and voltage remain at lowest setting (1Ghz, 1.15v). Temp stabilizes at 39C. CPU Fan never turns on.

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:04 pm

When decoding divx video, cpu clock and voltage remain at lowest setting (1Ghz, 1.15v). Temp stabilizes at 39C. CPU Fan never turns on.

A very clear illustration that fanless operation is not possible except with a very modest heat load. You can rest assured that at this speed & Vcore, JohnAStebbins' CPU is putting out less than half the heat generated by RH's P4-2.4C test setup. (Possibly ~30W... )

brett · Post by **brett** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:16 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:
GlassMan wrote:Brett, the pipes appear to be soldered into holes in the fins
Yes, I concur. They appear to be soldered using soft solder.

Bummer

, thought they would be for efficient heat transfer.

Are they soldered to all of the fins or just at the end of the heatpipe?

thanks to both

Brett

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:17 am

brett wrote:
Are they soldered to all of the fins or just at the end of the heatpipe?

All the fins. Break out your propane torch!

DanceMan · Post by **DanceMan** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:41 pm

Ralf, thanks for the extra work to test it vertically. Another theory is put to rest by testing.

wim · Post by **wim** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:17 pm

price: 49.95 USD = 69.76 AUD
pccasegear asking $129..

what gives?

engseng · Post by **engseng** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:29 pm

jabba wrote:Also, in using an XP-120 in a normal intel mobo in a case such as a BQE, the fan will stick out far enough to be near the middle of the exhaust fan that would make a sideway T intersection. Perhaps someone with an XP-120 and BQE combination might be able to say for sure. Maybe this is more clear:

|—

(| Exhaust) (— CPU Fan)

Now, would you even bother with an exhaust (esp if there was an intake)? The two fans in a 90 degree configuration might create extra turbulence or fight each other.

Damn, I was looking forward to seeing if it is possible to duct the XP-120 HSF with the exhaust fan. Now it seems the only way to duct it is to the side of the casing.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:56 am

engseng wrote:
jabba wrote:Also, in using an XP-120 in a normal intel mobo in a case such as a BQE, the fan will stick out far enough to be near the middle of the exhaust fan that would make a sideway T intersection. Perhaps someone with an XP-120 and BQE combination might be able to say for sure. Maybe this is more clear:

|—

(| Exhaust) (— CPU Fan)

Now, would you even bother with an exhaust (esp if there was an intake)? The two fans in a 90 degree configuration might create extra turbulence or fight each other.
Damn, I was looking forward to seeing if it is possible to duct the XP-120 HSF with the exhaust fan. Now it seems the only way to duct it is to the side of the casing.

I've been running an XP-120 in my BQE for about two weeks now. Yes, the heatsink fan does overlap the exhaust fan a bit, but with the heatsink fan in a "sucking" orientation I seem to be having zero issues with interference between it and the nearby exhaust fan. My thinking is that the exhaust fan is sucking the warm air right off the top of the heatsink fan. Full (2 x CPUBurn) load CPU temps are around 4-5°C cooler with this setup when compared to my earlier Zalman 7000AlCu CPU temps.

Here's a pic of the relationship between the two fans. The 120 x 25mm heatsink fan "overlaps" the 120mm exhaust fan by about 3/4".

IMOM · Post by **IMOM** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:37 am

I have the XP-120 Panaflo 120MM on blow and the Exhaust fan is sucking the air out of the case. I don't know if this is causing more turbulence, but it seems to me that both of my panaflo 120mms are noisier than I can remember. It maybe that they got damage with my recent move.

(l Exhaust)(— CPU FAN (blow)).

If anyone is curious, you can fit a XP-120, with a MCX-159 in a P4C800E motherboard, but you will have to cut down some of the MCX-159 heatsink pins. Then to install the XP-120, you will have to remove the northbridge heatsink first, install the XP-120 heatsink, then the MCX-159 heatsink...won't work any other way that I could of. The second option is to rotate the XP-120 180 degrees and install it, but you lose the benefit of the 120mm fan cooling your northridge heatsink.

A little extra information off the subject...don't buy the Arctic Cool ATI Silencer families... they are much more noisy than previous generations. I tried swapping fans from the VGAS version 2 with the ATI SILENCER 1, but there was still the noisy clicking from the fan. I really like the copper base with aluminum heatsink on the Silencer 1, so I hacked off the fan and install a a regular fan on the Silencer 1. I also bought the Silencer 2 for my brother, it's almost as bad...but the fan spins lower so there's less clicking noise. There's clicking noise even at 5V.

KrazyDawg · Post by **KrazyDawg** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:25 pm

How many blue rubber vibration damper strips came with the package? I only received one in mine and the manual states 2 should be included.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:32 pm

Supposed to be 2; search very carefully in all the little nooks and crannies in your box, or also around the box, in case it fell out when you lifted the cooler out.

KrazyDawg · Post by **KrazyDawg** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:48 pm

I've already looked at every possible place. The package containing the strip, fan clips, screws, etc. is stapled off so it couldn't have fallen out by accident. I've emailed the dealer with the missing item.

nimol · Post by **nimol** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:15 pm

I had the same problem then realised that if you examine the blue strip very closely you will see it is split and you can seperate the pieces. Hope this helps

DanceMan · Post by **DanceMan** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:27 pm

Way OT:

seperate

You don't paint signs for the city of Burnaby do you? Exact same word in 6" letters on signs for a sewer separation project. A week later they were repainted.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:55 pm

Ralf, from your photo it looks like an obvious candidate for ducting, i.e. removing the CPU fan altogether and attaching a 90 degree 120mm duct from the top of the XP120 to the exhaust fan.

Would that achieve similar temps with one less fan?

IMOM · Post by **IMOM** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:41 am

KrazyDawg...take a look again at the strip...it's very thin and it looks like one piece...there's a small slit that you separate to make two even thinner strips. Just a suggestion.

KrazyDawg · Post by **KrazyDawg** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:51 am

Thanks for everyone's replies and suggestions. I've already seperated the strip into two pieces. It just seems misleading at first when you see one piece and it doesn't state in the instructions to separate it.

Edward Ng · Post by **Edward Ng** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:58 am

That's interesting; the two white/translucent strips that came with my XP-90 sample were pre-separated.

wim · Post by **wim** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:56 am

Ralf Hutter wrote:
jabba wrote:Also, hypothetically, if you already owned a CNPS7000A-Cu, is this thing so much greater/quieter that you would plunk down an extra $50 to get it?
Short answer: yes.

It cools better than the Z-7000 at all voltages, even with the very quiet 120mm Globe fan.

ok so it's definitely a better buy at the moment (provided you don't have socket A, like me

..) but methinks this is kind of unfair competition because of the mismatched fan sizes. how much of the 'cools better (at same voltage)' is because of increased airflow and how much is heatsink performance?

what i really want to see is XP-120 vs. Z-7700 *!* that would be a fair fight

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:12 am

wim wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:
jabba wrote:Also, hypothetically, if you already owned a CNPS7000A-Cu, is this thing so much greater/quieter that you would plunk down an extra $50 to get it?
Short answer: yes.

It cools better than the Z-7000 at all voltages, even with the very quiet 120mm Globe fan.
ok so it's definitely a better buy at the moment (provided you don't have socket A, like me ..) but methinks this is kind of unfair competition because of the mismatched fan sizes. how much of the 'cools better (at same voltage)' is because of increased airflow and how much is heatsink performance?

what i really want to see is XP-120 vs. Z-7700 *!* that would be a fair fight

Who cares about the mismatched fan sizes? Assuming the XP-120 fits into your system, it will cool better and quieter than a Zalman 7000. Once you close the case door, you can't see what's inside, you can only hear the noise that escapes, and that's the bottom line, right?

Thermalright XP120 cooler: The new King

Bending XP-120 heatpipes