pc & amplifier cooling

mitch99 · Post by **mitch99** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:28 pm

Hi, I'm just wondering why there ain't pc-cases that utilizes cooling like amplifiers? If one looks at an amplifier it has a big piece of metal with coolingfins all along the sides.

So why isn't that a good design for a pc-case? (I assume it ain't in some way since it's not commonly used, except in Signumdata's FutureClient pc)

regards,
Michael

ChiefWeasel · Post by **ChiefWeasel** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:45 am

Do you mean car amps? The problem with doing this with a PC is connecting the heat producing components to the case. Ive had a look in my car amp and it has lots of transistors bolted to the case with thermal paste between them. I think the only way to do this kind of thing for PCs is a complete solution like SigmumDatas...

mitch99 · Post by **mitch99** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:45 am

Thanks, I thought there was a problem of some kind with this type of cooling method. I've seen it in both homeaudio and car amplifiers.

It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures of signumdata's creation (http://www.signumdata.de/english/futureclient.htm) how they do it, but to me it looks like they use a heat pipe-system to get to get the heat from the cpu to the case and the big cooling fins?

Would that be some kind of thing that you could build by yourself (costs, complexity etc..) ?

/Michael

ChiefWeasel · Post by **ChiefWeasel** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 6:36 am

hmm, i think it would be possible. Im just not sure how hard it would be! I think the hardest think would be the actual heatpipe itself. Im not sure what chemical they use for the evaporation and condensation. Then i think you'd have to think about transfer the heat from the chip to the heatpipe efficiently.

Maybe water cooling would be something to look into? Thou you would have a pump running too...

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:23 am

Heatpipes are eminently useful for very efficient transfer of heat from the source to another "remote" location where it can be disposed of more easily. The only problem is that the pipe(s) have to be stiff in order to accommodate the wicking structure within, which means you can only produce custom solutions.

www.thermacore.com said they produced some flexible heatsinks -- but they didn't work as well and cost a fortune. Building a heatpipe at home, I would guess, will be a labour of love and a lot of trial and error. IMO, a water cooled solution with a super quiet pump and passive massive HS (as in power amps) would be much easier to build. The flexibility of the tubes makes it easily adaptable.

Someone is working on an article about a quiet water-cooled PC for SPCR right now.

BTW, almost all the so-called heatpipe-equipped HS are silly gadgets designed only to cash in on a trendy idea. If the pipe is not being used to spread or move the heat to where it could not go otherwise, then it doesn't really serve any purpose. Except for the Shuttle HS systems, the "heatpipe HS" are self-contained affairs no bigger than ordinary HS. They don't make any sense. Some of Thermacore's "even heat" HS devices designed to maximize HS (like a heats preader, but better) make sense, though.

ChiefWeasel · Post by **ChiefWeasel** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:20 am

MikeC wrote:IMO, a water cooled solution with a super quiet pump and passive massive HS (as in power amps) would be much easier to build. The flexibility of the tubes makes it easily adaptable.

Yeah, especially as the pump is gonna be self cooling (well cooled by the water flowing through it), it would be viable to encase it in a soundproof box, to kill the already quiet sound. Eheim pumps are supposed to be almost silent anyway i think. Also if your gonna use water cooling you can just use a radiator - maybe even a car radiator, which should easily cope with passive cooling if mounted horizontally.

Post by **MikeC** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:55 am

you can just use a radiator - maybe even a car radiator, which should easily cope with passive cooling if mounted horizontally

I dunno about that, ChiefW, if memory serves, car-style radiators are designed specifically for high airflow apps (like when the car is moving), which explains the very high density of fins. I suspect an audio amp style HS with greater spacing between fins will work better.

mitch99 · Post by **mitch99** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:04 am

Cheers guys for your advice

!

Although watercooling might be easier to implement i'm still more interested in heat pipes. That's since you get it to work it would be safe, quiet and compact.

I've been thinking about what you said mike, and it sucks that it seems so complicated to get a heat pipe that suits your needs. I guess then the only way would be to buy one of their standard sized ones and try to make it fit in by modding the case i some way?

Speaking of buying a heat pipe, I haven't seen anyone selling them. Do you guys have any idea where to buy one and how much they would cost?

/michael

Post by **MikeC** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:16 am

Mitch, that's precisely it: why do you think no one is selling them? Not because there is no demand, but because there's no such thing as a "generic, standard heatpipe". The Shuttle heatpipe/HS is a custom solution for that specific case / mobo, and it is the only one I have seen appear on the PC market.

BTW, I think it is too small for fanless cooling except with lower power CPU (maybe under 25W?) Plus the fins are too tightly spaced for good passive cooling. For more details on heatpipes, have a look at the portion on Thermacore in the Report from IDF, Part 1.