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 Post subject: can anyone OVERclock an AMD64 and keep it quiet n cool??
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:52 pm 
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On here i know that everyone always talks about underclocking; however, i was wondering if anyone is able to keep a system quiet while overclocking.... Im particularly interested in the AMD64 setups. Does anyone have and success and to what levels have you overclocked your CPU's, while keeping them in reasonable temperature ranges.....


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:09 pm 
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Well, it depends on how much you want to overclock it. I'm not an expert on oveclocking, but I usually set the BIOS that came with my ASUS board at a 5% overclock. I've got an A64 3200 on an ASUS A8V board. I've cranked it up to 10% which is the highest setting and it was stable, but the temps were in idling in the mid 40s and got up to 60 accoring to ASUSProbe, which isnt completely accurate, during gaming. I didn't feel like there was that much of an improvement in speed, so I just leave it at 5% with temps in the mid 30s that get up to the high 40s during gaming. I probably could've gotten better results if I cranked my Zalman 7000's fan and my Papst case fan back up to full speed, but its not worth the hassle for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Location: Acton, MA, USA -- Folding for SPCR
I am overclocking mildly and using CnQ. With my DFI, you have to leave Vcore at "Auto" so that CnQ can alter voltages, but you can use Vcore special control to raise the voltage by percentages (+4%, +10%, ... up to +23% or so). This percentage applies to any change CnQ makes.

I am running at 240x10 with Auto +4% for voltage. I am virtually never idle now that I fold 24/7. Currently, my CPU is at 38C in a case at 30C in ambient of 22C. The last time I was idle (weeks ago), outside a case, I am pretty sure the CPU idled with CnQ about 1-2C above ambient.

A load of BurnK7 is about 4C hotter than folding in my experience.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:41 pm 
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As is ilh, I am overclocking mildly, and also have low temps.

ilh has a 3200+ with a default clock speed of 2,000 MHz, which is 200 BUS x 10x Multiplier.

His RAM overclocks very well.

I have a 3500+ with a default clock speed of 2,200 MHz, which is 200 BUS x 11x Multiplier.

My RAM does NOT overclock as well, my machine runs fine at 220 BUS x 11x Multiplier, should be 2200, but actually runs at 2240.

My idle temps are between 29C and 33C idle, and the highest temp I have hit is 48C.

If you are interested in overclocking, you will need a good board, Abit, Asus, DFI, or MSI, you will need fast RAM, or RAM that is known to overclock well, work out the likely fastest BUS your RAM will operate at and Multiply it by 9x for the 3000+, 10x for the 3200+, or 11x for the 3500+.

If you do NOT change the voltages any of the above CPU's will be the same temperatures at the same overall clock speeds, remember overclocking does not miraculously make the CPU hotter only the clock speed and voltage increases do.

If you just cant be bothered, or think that the higher cost of faster RAM is not worth it, just buy a faster CPU, (beyond the 3500+ they use a different core, and are hotter).


Andy

PS: I have only NOT overclocked 1 system, and that was because the boards (2 of them) were crap, and were totally flaky. My best overclock was on the legendary Abit BP6, 2 x Celerons (with cache) 400MHz @ 600MHz, thats 50%.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:05 am 
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Location: USA
I thought about overclocking my AMD64 to gain better performance, but then I noticed that some people on this forum were underclocking them (after all, this is Silent PC Review). So then I had to decide whether I should overclock or underclock.

So I kept thinking about it: overclock/underclock, overclock/underclock, overclock/underclock, overclock/underclock, overclock/underclock, overclock/underclock, and then my brain short-circuited and now I am a complete imbecile, and incapable of figuring out how to adjust my bios.

So I guess I will have to leave everything running with the defaults.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:55 am 
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I could reach 2.2GHz with CnQ. But 2.4GHz requires 1.5V and thus
disabling CnQ on my particular board (ASUS A8V)

But I have to admit I'm doing it for fun, since it doesn't increase the
overall noise level. The gaming advantage usually isn't noticeable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:32 am 
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andyb wrote:
As is ilh, I am overclocking mildly, and also have low temps.

ilh has a 3200+ with a default clock speed of 2,000 MHz, which is 200 BUS x 10x Multiplier.

His RAM overclocks very well.

I have a 3500+ with a default clock speed of 2,200 MHz, which is 200 BUS x 11x Multiplier.

My RAM does NOT overclock as well, my machine runs fine at 220 BUS x 11x Multiplier, should be 2200, but actually runs at 2240.

My idle temps are between 29C and 33C idle, and the highest temp I have hit is 48C.

If you are interested in overclocking, you will need a good board, Abit, Asus, DFI, or MSI, you will need fast RAM, or RAM that is known to overclock well, work out the likely fastest BUS your RAM will operate at and Multiply it by 9x for the 3000+, 10x for the 3200+, or 11x for the 3500+.

If you do NOT change the voltages any of the above CPU's will be the same temperatures at the same overall clock speeds, remember overclocking does not miraculously make the CPU hotter only the clock speed and voltage increases do.

If you just cant be bothered, or think that the higher cost of faster RAM is not worth it, just buy a faster CPU, (beyond the 3500+ they use a different core, and are hotter).


Andy

PS: I have only NOT overclocked 1 system, and that was because the boards (2 of them) were crap, and were totally flaky. My best overclock was on the legendary Abit BP6, 2 x Celerons (with cache) 400MHz @ 600MHz, thats 50%.

First of all 220x11 is 2420. You will only need good ram, if you plan to overclock 1:1, just use memory dividers. For example with a divider of 0.8 (166) you could run your 3200+ 250x10 = 2500mhz and your ram would still be running at ddr400 and not ddr500.

I have Crucial Ballistix memory, but fast RAM is really not necessary for CPU overclocking, it justs gives you an extra performance with lower timings and increased bandwith.

I always refer people to this article. Zebo runs his amd64 @ 2610 in it and uses wide variaty of RAMs from really old ddr266 to the fast samsung TCCDs at DDR590...

Doom3 1024x768 in FPS
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 77.8
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 80.3
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 81.4
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 82.3
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 82.4
No signifigant difference above PC3000

Now that makes you think if it's really worth spending the extra money on ram. It's not.

There are only couple of reasons to buy 3500+ over 3000+ or 3200+.

1) Extreme overclocking. You need the 11x multiplier to run winbond UTT or BH5 memory at 250x11 1:1 @ 2-2-2-5. (not really possible on a silent air cooling).
2) You don't overclock at all and want the fastest winchester core.

Overclocking and silence can be done, but you just have to balance between them, you can't have both extremes. Cpu temp is hardly the nr1 reason why people in this forum underclock. It's the power usage of the CPU, with higher overclocks your CPU will use more power wich will heat up your PSU and ramp up your PSUs fan speed, this is even more true with cheap PSUs with moderate efficiency. You can't avoid this even if you have water cooled CPU.

So in order to have a silent, but powerful computer you need a good high efficiency PSU (seasonic comes to mind), good mobo (DFI, MSI), good cpu cooler and good airflow in the case to keep everything as cool as possible.

If you still don't own a amd64 Venice cores are coming out soon, they should have a bit higher temps (2-3c) then winchester, but they should be better overclockers then wichester. They will also feature a better memory controller and support for SSE3.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:53 am 
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I'm running a 10% overclock (10*220=2.2Ghz) AND a 15% undervolt (1.2v) at the same time! System is completely stable, CPU is cooled mostly passively by a Scythe NCU-2005. There is a undervolted Nexus 120 a few inches away blowing in it's direction, but the airflow is hardly noticeable. The CPU has been at 100% for 5 days stright in this configuration doing XviD compression and the CPU is 20C above ambient.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:55 am 
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I use my 3000+ (2.0 GHz) Newcastle at 2.4 GHz with Vcore at 1.37V (default is 1.5V). So that's a 20% overclock WITH undervolting.

Cooling is XP90 with Nexus 92mm fan, fan voltage is around 9V i guess (1100 rpm instead of the full 1500 rpm). Running folding@home, CPU is 55C at 25C room ambient. Highest I got was 62C when room ambient pushed past 30C and I was playing Farcry for an hour. CPU fan is set to vary between 8V - 12V starting to rise from 60C, 12V at 65C.

So yes, I'd say could overclock & keep quiet. Should be much easier with a Winnie instead of newcastle.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:18 am 
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Erssa, lots of "Performance Orientated" motherboards, like mine, are overclocked very slightly, this helps the boards win review with reviewers.

RE: the use of dividers, my mobo, does'nt seem to support dividers in the same way other boards do, it gives me the option to run the RAM at 200 (1/1), 166 (5/6), 133 (2/3), 100 (2/1).

So I went for the safe bet, of set the RAM to 166, and the BUS to 220, which should be running the RAM at 182. This proved to be very unstable, so i ran it at 210 but at 1/1 for a while, was fine, then when I got my new high-latency GEIL 2 x 1GB sticks, I found they could run perfectly at 220 BUS using defaul timings, and maxing out my RAM without hitting the memory controller problems.

I am more interested in loads of RAM personally, than tight timings, I might try to underclock as well, but not until my Freezer 64 turns up.


Andy

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Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:24 am 
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Posting is becomming a bit redundant now, but ...

My A64 3000+ Winchester runs at 9x220MHz (+10%) and 1.25V (-11%).

Now I learned from this website that the energy used increases linear with the overclock and decreases quadratic with the undervolt. So my processor should theoretically use about 12% less power than when running stock speed and voltage. So it is no wonder it runs slightly cooler than before. The HD is still the loudest part of this system (number 3 in my sig).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:53 am 
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no tibors... posting isn't redundant... i want to see is ppl are actually getting good results or not...

I personally am planning on getting a Venica 3000+ w/ the soltek sl-k890pro mobo w/ 2x512 DDR400 corsair value ram and a gigabyte 6600GT (passive)...


does that mobo and ram make it conducive to get decent overclocl, at least up to 2.0 ghz, and still have it running cool, on 1 nexus exhaust and a s12 PS, and a xp-90 w/ nexus 92mm???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:08 pm 
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ChiBOY83 wrote:
I personally am planning on getting a Venica 3000+ w/ the soltek sl-k890pro mobo w/ 2x512 DDR400 corsair value ram and a gigabyte 6600GT (passive)...

does that mobo and ram make it conducive to get decent overclocl, at least up to 2.0 ghz, and still have it running cool, on 1 nexus exhaust and a s12 PS, and a xp-90 w/ nexus 92mm???

I had the Soltek SL-K890Pro for a short time, but switched (RMA) to an Asus A8N-E because I was having on-bard Ethernet problems (reported by others also). I am not an over-clocker, but I recall from some reviews (Google it to find the review) that it does not over-clock in as fine of increments as most other boards, IIRC. But that was never an issue for me.

I was able to replace the active HSF for the Asus chipset rather easily with a Zalman passive. I have posted pics in the NF4 chipset replacement thread. But if you OC the board, you might need to blow some air on it on any passive chipset HS. The passive chipset HS on the Soltek was very hot to the touch at stock speeds, much hotter than my Zalman on the Asus NF4 (of course, the Zalman is a much larger HS).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:37 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
I had the Soltek SL-K890Pro for a short time, but switched (RMA) to an Asus A8N-E because I was having on-bard Ethernet problems (reported by others also)


I have also heard about the onboard ethernet problems, and i figured i would never notice the difference, as long as it was just about reduced speeds.... However... i am also somehwat hesitant to mod off the active HS on the NF4 boards because of how i have read they are very sensitive and fragile, hence the reason why i went w/ hte passice solution on the VIA...... As far as OC'in is concerned, im not goin to be into hardcore anyways, so average results would suffice.... but i will check into that further


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:17 pm 
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According to the review at http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q1/so ... dex.x?pg=1
the Soltek gigabit Ethernet max’s out at about 670 Mbps vs. about 870 Mbps for some other boards. This difference is of no practical significance for anyone I know of, and certainly not any corporate network (even if a gigabit network) running desktop machines. The only place this might be an issue is if there is a private Ethernet between two servers with very high volumes of network traffic between them. But the Soltek is not a server board, so this scenario would be unlikely.

So the above performance “lag” is not the problem I was mentioning. The problem I had was that sometimes the Ethernet would not work at all, or sometime it would only connect at 10 Mbps with a 3Com 10/100 card (direct connected via crossover cable). Other people have reported similar “flakey” connections, which sometimes disconnected for no apparent reason. In my case, it seemed to be influenced by my SoundBlaster Audigy2 card and which PCI slot the sound card was placed in (there are only 2 PCI slots on the board). When I contacted Soltek support, they responded quickly, but they said that their Audigy2 card was broken and they could not test it. I tried the latest Realtek Ethernet drivers, but that did not fix the problem. Maybe it works fine when connecting to another gigabit device.

I also encountered some very strange voltage readings from the bios using a Seasonic S12-380 with the 24-20 pin converter to the motherboard. The 12V readings were 10% low compared to a multimeter reading and most of other voltages were way off also (some were completely off the wall). When I switched to the Asus A8N-E all the voltages were in spec with the same PSU.

Temperature readings on the Soltek seem to be about 10C-15C higher than most other motherboards, although they adjusted them down some with latest bios. But these temps may actually be more accurate than other boards, which tend to understate the CPU temps by reporting on the CPU heat spreader temp and not the CPU core.

As I noted in a previous post, the passive chipset HS on the Soltek was very hot to touch, albeit a somewhat subjective measurement.

Bottom line is that I need the Ethernet to connect properly with other 100 Mbps devices and be very reliable for my home office. I could not afford to mess around with it any more than I already did, so it went back to NewEgg.

I am not an overclocker, partly because stability is paramount on my machine which I use in my business.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:33 pm 
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ChiBOY83 wrote:
However... i am also somehwat hesitant to mod off the active HS on the NF4 boards because of how i have read they are very sensitive and fragile, hence the reason why i went w/ hte passice solution on the VIA

Let me give you a hint if you try it. The main problem is that the chip is smaller than the HS and has sharp edges. If you rock the HS side to side too much at odd angles, you "could" damage the edges of the chip, which does not have a protective heat spreader like the A64.

The Zalman chipset HS has adjustable "wings" to accomodate different hole sizes on the MB. If you adjust the Zalman wings using the old HS removed from the existing board, then you can be sure you have the HS pins lined up correctly with the MB holes. Then when you install the HS and push on the plastic pins into the MB holes, just hold the HS steady so it does not rock on the chip. It is not really that difficult to do if you keep the HS flat and keep it from rocking. The main reason for rocking the HS is if the wings are not adjusted to exactly match the MB holes and then it is harder to get the push pins into the MB holes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:25 pm 
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Location: AB, Canada
m0002a wrote:
stuff about soltek onboard gige = crap

There's a similar obscure problem with nVidia onboard gigabit controllers (i.e. nF3) too. On some machines the actual Ethernet connection is lost and instantaneously reestablished several times/sec, and on all nF3 mbs, the controller has some really weird issue that results in malformed packets in certain circumstances. Wonder if there's something in common?


Anyways, running a Winchester 3200+ at 2400MHz, 45C folding. Not that impressive but I have some weird issue causing immediate failure with an HTT over 240MHz, regardless of CPU or HTT multiplier. Haven't really tried to figure it out since it's still a decent oc for now. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 9:12 pm 
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Straker wrote:
m0002a wrote:
stuff about soltek onboard gige = crap

You seem to have quoted me with text that I don't believe I posted.

I don't know whether the Soltek and NF3 Ethernet problems are related. The Soltek uses VIA K8T890 + VT8237R chipsets with a Realtek Ethernet controller. The Soltek problem "may" be related to using one of the PCI slots with an adapter card (such as soundcard).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:07 pm 
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It was just a summary of those 30 lines, sorry. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Thread.
"Cool 'n' Quiet max FID" in BIOS, interesting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Tibors,
Nice overclock/undervolt but I have a question. You said it was system #3 and that would be the MSI board with an ATI XPress 200 chipset. How did you overclock/undervolt the CPU with that chipset? Is there "active" software out there that will do in Windows?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:01 pm 
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Yes, it is done with software under windows, as the BIOS doesn't provide controls for this. I actually need two programs for it. The undervolting is done with CrystalCPUID. The overclocking is done with ClockGen.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:24 am 
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A64 can run very cool with the right CPU and board. I have a DFI NF3-250GB mobo ($100) and a low-power (35w) Mobile Althon 2800+ CPU (1800mhz, 90nm with Winncester core, code name Oakville). The DFI bios accepts the mobil chip with no problem.

I am both undervolt and overvolt the CPU.
270 x 9 = 2430mhz 1.475v (stock freq = 1800mhz @ 1.35 v)
270 x 8 = 2160 1.3 v
270 x 7 = 1890 1.15v
270 x 6 = 1620 1.025 v
270 x 5 = 1350 0.95v

The HS is an old Zalman 7000A. The idle temp (in an 18c room) is around 22c; max stressed temp is around 28c. Without the use of Zalman Fanmate, the HS fan would stop for 3-4 minutes then kick in when the idle temp reach 23c(?) for 2-3 minutes. That ramp up/down brothers me, so I use the fanmate and have the fan running all the time at the lowest setting. The temp range from 24c - 30c.

The C&Q works BUT it sets the CPU to 1.05v/4x and 1.45v/9x with no flexibility. So I use C&Q along with Rmclock (CrysterCPUID can too) by ramp the multipler up/down between 6x to 9x. With Rmclock, I could have the CPU running at higher speed yet at low voltage on the low end and higher speed on higher voltage on the high end.

I am settling on this CPU/mono to build my next HTPC.

BTW. I get my CPU for around $112. I understand the new Mobile Turion can run at even lower voltage.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:39 am 
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"If you still don't own a amd64 Venice cores are coming out soon, they should have a bit higher temps (2-3c) then winchester, but they should be better overclockers then wichester."

newbie question: if default VCore is 1.4V rather than 1.5V, why would it run hotter?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:40 am 
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mshan wrote:
"If you still don't own a amd64 Venice cores are coming out soon, they should have a bit higher temps (2-3c) then winchester, but they should be better overclockers then wichester."

newbie question: if default VCore is 1.4V rather than 1.5V, why would it run hotter?

No, both run at 1.4 V, and some Venice even at 1.35 V. (The older 130 nm CPU's used 1.5 V.) The higher temp is because of a different manufacturing process which allows higher speeds.


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