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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:46 am 
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Posts: 53
gintasr wrote:
Here what i got with playing around with the ducting. With the ducting my CPU load (load being 10 minutes of Flight Simulator 2004 at max settings) my cpu temp was 40C. WithOUT the ducting, the cpu temp is 37C at load. So as far as the ducting goes.... settle without it. Two problems ive noticed with it thus far...

[ i m a g e ]

1) when the duct is positioned over the heatsink/fan... the duct doesnt go hight enough to provide a space between the duct and the fan (this being true with a XP-120 HSF and SinenX 120mm fan combination). Antec recomends a 20mm gap between the two.. obviously that wasnt possible.

2) the duct is so large that it makes the rear 120mm fan useless. The rear fan cannot scoop up enough air from the front intakes and lead it through to the back. That 20mm gap between HSF and duct would help the problem.

In conclusion.. unless you have a smaller heatsink.. dont use the duct

-or-

dont use a fan on the heatsink and instead attach a 92mm fan into the duct itself.

I prefer... no duct.


Quote:
Do you think this would still be an issue when using an XP-90?


I built my system yesterday in my Sonata II and came to the same two conclusions. I'm using a Thermalright XP-90, which is slightly taller than the XP-120 (judging by this), and I couldn't get the duct to fit at all. The 92mm Panaflo fan was barely inside the duct, so I couldn't move the duct to the left to connect it to the rear exhaust connector.

Also, how warm is your Raptor running? Mine's at 36C right now with the motherboard at 29C and CPU also at 36C. The room is a bit warm and the sun is shining on the black case right now...

Here's my new setup:

Asus A8N-E w/NB47J
Athlon 64 3200+ Venice
Thermalright XP-90 w/Panaflo L1BX
Corsair 2x1GB TWINX2048-3200C2PT
BBA Radeon X800 XL 256MB
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
Western Digital 74gb Raptor
Black NEC 3520A 16x DVD+/-RW
Black Lite-On 52x32x52x16 Combo Drive
Antec Sonata II + Antec 38CFM front 120mm fan
Black Rounded IDE Cables
Enermax 485W Noisetaker ATX 2.0

Image Image Image

I wasn't shooting for silence; I wanted a quiet setup and I'm very satisfied with how it turned out. The A8N-E is automatically adjusting the Panaflo fan and it's running at about 850-950rpm when idling, and only ~1200-1500 while gaming.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:55 am
Posts: 76
im also really contemplating between the Sonata II or SLK3000-B w/ seasonic PS. the real deciding factor for me is that air duct that extends to the cpu.. im afraid its going to let too much noise out. what do u think?? i dont know which to get. people have said smartpower 2.0 was pretty quiet


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:16 pm 
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Posts: 40
HiFi wrote:
im also really contemplating between the Sonata II or SLK3000-B w/ seasonic PS. the real deciding factor for me is that air duct that extends to the cpu.. im afraid its going to let too much noise out. what do u think?? i dont know which to get. people have said smartpower 2.0 was pretty quiet

That seems to be a popular decision. I am trying to decide between the two also.

I'm worried about the air duct also. I fear that if the air duct is useless with a XP-?? and it will impact cooling potential for future (hotter Intel) procs. I'm also concerned about the air duct recycling hot air from the rear fan and psu, especially if you use a vgasilencer or open pci slots for your graphics card.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:25 pm 
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Posts: 53
Mike_Metro wrote:
I'm worried about the air duct also. I fear that if the air duct is useless with a XP-?? and it will impact cooling potential for future (hotter Intel) procs. I'm also concerned about the air duct recycling hot air from the rear fan and psu, especially if you use a vgasilencer or open pci slots for your graphics card.


Don't use the air duct. I'm not using it, and my temps are fine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:44 pm 
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Posts: 76
Gerbil wrote:
Don't use the air duct. I'm not using it, and my temps are fine.


i dont plan to.. but the thing is its still a hole in the side of the case an i dont know if u can remove the air duct or what.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:47 pm 
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Posts: 53
There's no hole in the side panel. Take a look at our pictures. There's an exhaust grill in the back of the case, and the air duct is designed to be removeable. It's no problem at all to not use it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:02 pm 
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Posts: 76
Gerbil wrote:
There's no hole in the side panel. Take a look at our pictures. There's an exhaust grill in the back of the case, and the air duct is designed to be removeable. It's no problem at all to not use it.


i guess i should clarify myself, im talking about the blowhole on the SLK 3000-B, that is the duct im referring to. can it be removed?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:38 am
Posts: 38
Location: FL
For the posts prior.. I do like this case better than my 640. It is fairly quiet and i would not recomend using the duct at all.. The duct is too large and too restrictive on the airflow inside the case. And besides, my temps dropped 3C when i got rid of the duct.

As far as the raptor goes. It is not hot, its warm to the touch, i suppose around 37C or so.

As far as teh PSU goes.. i dont like it AT ALL. It is my loudest part. and i mean LOUDEST. THat isnt a problem for me because i plan to swap it with a phantom sometime over the summer

Overall I am COMPLETELY satisfied with the Sonata II and I will definatly use it or its future upgrade in my upcomming builds. It looks classy, it has great airflow, its a pleasure to work with (not too cramped or tight). Overall a great case.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:37 pm 
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Posts: 53
I'm glad I didn't bother with the stock PSU then. My Enermax Noisetaker is one of the quietest devices in my system alongside the Panaflo 92mm CPU fan.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 20
Glad to see I'm not the only one wondering about this Mike_Metro and HiFi :)

gintasr wrote:
Here what i got with playing around with the ducting. With the ducting my CPU load (load being 10 minutes of Flight Simulator 2004 at max settings) my cpu temp was 40C. WithOUT the ducting, the cpu temp is 37C at load. So as far as the ducting goes.... settle without it. Two problems ive noticed with it thus far...

I prefer... no duct.


In your pictures you installed an 80mm fan in the video card section of the duct. I'm wondering if you'd have better luck with that blocked off instead. With the fan there the duct might be taking most of the cool air out and leaving the CPU fan with less to work with.

That won't fix the gap problem between the duct and CPU fan or the blockage of the 120mm in the back, but it'd be something to try if you were bored.


However based on your later post about the PSU being annoying I think I'm gonna have to go with the SLK3000-B. They have a similar enough feature set that it's probably not worth the trouble to a Sonata II and an S12 and then have to sell the Sonata's PSU.

Thanks for all the info gintasr, now I just need to figure out the other 47123 gazillian parts for my new pc :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:38 pm 
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Location: FL
Hahah, no problem. Best of luck. Perhaps i will try to block off the 80mm one day. Oh well, we'll see.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:32 pm 
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Posts: 53
Although my computer is completely stable, I didn't like how hot the NB47J felt. Since I'm not using the duct, I attached a 120mm fan to the screws on the bottom duct mount. I'm seeing what effect it has now.

What do you guys think of it?

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:16 am 
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Posts: 2831
Location: USA
Gerbil wrote:
Although my computer is completely stable, I didn't like how hot the NB47J felt. Since I'm not using the duct, I attached a 120mm fan to the screws on the bottom duct mount. I'm seeing what effect it has now.

What do you guys think of it?

I would have thought that the fan attached to your drive cage would blow enough air on the NB47J.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:33 am 
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Posts: 53
m0002a wrote:
I would have thought that the fan attached to your drive cage would blow enough air on the NB47J.


The NB47J isn't in the line of sight of the front fan. There's very little airflow there and the heatsink gets hot. I'm trying to decide if the mod disrupts airflow from the front to the rear of the case. It's very effective at cooling the video card and the northbridge, but if it's going to increase the hard drive, CPU, and PSU temperatures, I don't know which would be better.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:48 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Toronto, Canada
Quick question: How do u find the stock tricool fan? Would u consider getting a more quiet replacement fan?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:55 am 
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Posts: 38
Location: FL
geminite wrote:
Quick question: How do u find the stock tricool fan? Would u consider getting a more quiet replacement fan?


On low, you cant even feel what air the fan is pushing - no noise

on med, very small amount of air is pushed - low noise (PSU still blocks it)

on hi, good amount of airflow - too loud, very whiney. I will never use this setting.

I am considering a quiet fan replacement.

Does anybody have any recomendations with links preferably?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:51 am 
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Posts: 184
gintasr wrote:
Hahah, no problem. Best of luck. Perhaps i will try to block off the 80mm one day. Oh well, we'll see.


So wait, you didn't block of the 80mm fan mount on the duct?

From the manual:
Note: If you choose to install the 92mm fan for the CPU, you must run it either with the 80mm VGA fan mount capped or with the 80mm fan installed. See instructions below for VGA Cooling. Opening the 80mm VGA fan mount without a fan blowing into the case will result in hot air being sucked through the 80mm fan mount (from the VGA card) to the
CPU. This will severely decrease the cooling effect of your CPU cooler.

Although I don't recall you saying you installed a 92mm fan in the duct either.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

AntecRep

_________________
Antec Rep
www.antec.com
For spare parts, contact customer support. It's faster then PM'ing me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:38 am
Posts: 38
Location: FL
AntecRep wrote:
gintasr wrote:
Hahah, no problem. Best of luck. Perhaps i will try to block off the 80mm one day. Oh well, we'll see.


So wait, you didn't block of the 80mm fan mount on the duct?

From the manual:
Note: If you choose to install the 92mm fan for the CPU, you must run it either with the 80mm VGA fan mount capped or with the 80mm fan installed. See instructions below for VGA Cooling. Opening the 80mm VGA fan mount without a fan blowing into the case will result in hot air being sucked through the 80mm fan mount (from the VGA card) to the
CPU. This will severely decrease the cooling effect of your CPU cooler.

Although I don't recall you saying you installed a 92mm fan in the duct either.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

AntecRep


Slight misunderstanding. When I had the duct installed, the 80mm hole was open with a 80mm fan in it. The 92mm opening for the CPU fan was not occupied because I had a SilenX 120mm fan mounted on my XP-120 heatsink.

In that configuration, no matter how high you raise the duct, the fan casing is touching the duct and there is no possible way to have the recomending 20mm gap in that configuration.

Ive noticed temp drops of 3C w/o the ducting so there is absolutly no reason for me to ever install it again, afterall witht he ducting installed the rear 120mm fan is useless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:28 am
Posts: 5
Location: Davis, CA
AntecRep wrote:
The blue/black wire should only be reporting RPM, not actually getting signal from the Mobo to control the fan speed.

AntecRep


Interesting stuff. I just built a system over the weekend in the Sonata II case and my wife came home and nearly made me send the whole thing back because it was so loud. The PSU internal fan was spinning fast and making tons of noise. So I went out and replaced the PSU with the True Power 380W. I checked with Antec Customer Support and was told to disconnect the blue/black cable and the problem should be solved:

This from Customer Support:
"Comment: If you have the blue and black wire connector on your power ssupply connected to the motherboard disconnect it. This will allow the fan to run like it is designed to run."

The manual clearly says as Antec Rep says to connect it if you want to monitor the speed of the rear PSU fan. I have no way of testing this since I'm not going to reinstall the PSU but would be interested in knowing if this works for anyone.

My other beef with the PSU is that it does not have a Fan Only connector for the rear case fan. The only control available for the rear case fan is a three way switch (i.e. Tri Cool I guess) that is on the inside of the case.

Cheers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:38 am
Posts: 38
Location: FL
Cal Davis wrote:
AntecRep wrote:
The blue/black wire should only be reporting RPM, not actually getting signal from the Mobo to control the fan speed.

AntecRep


Interesting stuff. I just built a system over the weekend in the Sonata II case and my wife came home and nearly made me send the whole thing back because it was so loud. The PSU internal fan was spinning fast and making tons of noise. So I went out and replaced the PSU with the True Power 380W. I checked with Antec Customer Support and was told to disconnect the blue/black cable and the problem should be solved:

This from Customer Support:
"Comment: If you have the blue and black wire connector on your power ssupply connected to the motherboard disconnect it. This will allow the fan to run like it is designed to run."

The manual clearly says as Antec Rep says to connect it if you want to monitor the speed of the rear PSU fan. I have no way of testing this since I'm not going to reinstall the PSU but would be interested in knowing if this works for anyone.

My other beef with the PSU is that it does not have a Fan Only connector for the rear case fan. The only control available for the rear case fan is a three way switch (i.e. Tri Cool I guess) that is on the inside of the case.

Cheers.



Oh my god!!! thank you so much for this. I have just tried it and it works like a dream. The computer is dead silent and the fan is still turning.. very slowly, but turning. THanks for this post! All you SmartPower 2 users.. disconnect the blue and black!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:48 pm
Posts: 254
Location: When it gets unbearably hot...you're there.
gintasr wrote:
Oh my god!!! thank you so much for this. I have just tried it and it works like a dream. The computer is dead silent and the fan is still turning.. very slowly, but turning. THanks for this post! All you SmartPower 2 users.. disconnect the blue and black!


How lucky do you feel? I wonder what would happen if you started the system up with the black/blue wire attached, and then while it was running, disconnect it. I can't imagine anything bad happening, but it'd be interesting if it immediately slowed the fan down.

I'm pondering something now...I bought a Silverstone ST360 360W power supply for my media pc. It is definitely the loudest fan in the system at times. I have the black/blue wire on it connected to the motherboard so speedfan can monitor it. Looking at the speedfan logging numbers, I now realize that this "thermally controlled fan" never drops below about 1200 rpm, no matter what the computer is doing. It DOES ramp up when the PC starts getting busy..maybe rising about 200 rpm. Guess I'll go home and unplug that cable and see if perhaps the idle rpm on that fan will come down.

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SPCR: Boldly covering the broad range between "quiet" and "silent".
As a result of finding this site, my computer isn't any quieter...but at least I'm much more aware of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:12 pm 
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Location: FL
Thats exactly what I did. I had it plugged in and was too lazy to shut down. I just yanked it out and.... BLISS!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:07 pm 
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Location: When it gets unbearably hot...you're there.
gintasr wrote:
Thats exactly what I did. I had it plugged in and was too lazy to shut down. I just yanked it out and.... BLISS!!!


Well, no luck for me on my Silverstone PSU...it was just a shot. Strange though that it's rpm never goes below about 1500. Maybe Speedfan is just reading it wrong. It doesn't seem as loud as you'd think 1500 would be.

Good to hear it's a nice PSU now...I was getting disappointed.

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SPCR: Boldly covering the broad range between "quiet" and "silent".
As a result of finding this site, my computer isn't any quieter...but at least I'm much more aware of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:16 am
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Location: canberra, australia
i'm so confused... how (and why) does the rpm monitoring wire control the fan speed?
must be some new thing..?...that is usually only an output (a gnd wire and a count wire)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:57 am
Posts: 40
I made the choice (Between Sonata II and 3000B w/ S-12). I ordered the Sonata II over the weekend. I was a little worried about the power supply noise. The latest insight by Cal Davis has definitely made me feel good about the decision. Thanks much Cal! :D . I also ordered 2 120mm Nexus fans from Jab-Tech at $14.49 a piece for 2, I couldn't resist.

Many thanks to gintasr, Gerbil, Cal Davis, and everyone else for your input on the Sonata II.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:49 am
Posts: 58
Location: Solihull / Bath / Kent - England
So, for all those who have one - how would you now judge the smartpower 2.0 as far as noise is concerned?

Frankgehry gave it a very good review, and I'm thinking of getting one for my upgrade as they are cheaper than the seasonic's (In England anyway). I just wanted to make sure the 450W version was of the same quality as the 500W.

Cheers - Dane.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:57 pm 
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Location: Davis, CA
gintasr, glad to hear I made your day.

Mike_Metro- Good call, I think you'll like the case.

Dane - If you are seriously considering the SmartPower2 let me know, I've got one for sale!

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 Post subject: my theory on blue black wire fan tach
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:19 pm 
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Posts: 1424
Location: New York, NY
My theory on the blue black wire fan tach feature/bug =

Paraphrased from the Antec Smartpower 2.0 5OOW User's Manual.

The manual indicates that when temps are low, the speed of the fan (psu intake) may drop below 950rpm. At such low speeds, some motherboards may not be able to properly detect the fan speed and may generate a false warning of fan failure (fan fault). To ensure proper fan monitoring, please refer to your motherboard manual.

I think that when the blue black wire fan tach is connected, the motherboard, if its not sensing a speed, sends a fan fault message to the psu that cranks the fan up to full speed. I haven't looked at my motherboard software/bios yet to see if the fan fault threshold is adjustable. - FG

EDIT: I do have a mb software adjustment for the psu fan threshold.

_________________

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(Retired: XP-120, FSP530-60GNA, Antec SP2.0 500W, Antec SLK3000B)


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 Post subject: Re: my theory on blue black wire fan tach
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:16 am
Posts: 777
Location: canberra, australia
frankgehry wrote:
the motherboard, if its not sensing a speed, sends a fan fault message to the psu that cranks the fan up to full speed.


how? through the mobo connector? which wire?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:49 am
Posts: 58
Location: Solihull / Bath / Kent - England
Cal Davis wrote:
Dane - If you are seriously considering the SmartPower2 let me know, I've got one for sale!


Cheers for the offer - but I'm guessing the 'CA' in your profile is referring to California. Shipping of a PSU from CA to England - Ouch :shock:

Plus I'm guessing the power lead wouldn't be correct. Do you still have a 3-pin kettle connection on the back of the PSU - in other words is it just the wall socket plug (Your silly 2-pin :D ) that wouldn't be right. I'm guessing it could switch to 230V no problem though.

I can get a 450W for £55 in the UK which is £10 cheaper than an S12. Plus I might go for the 500W just for the modular cables.

By all means quote me a price though - Dane.

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