Yes, aphonos, I agree that there is only a sketchy account, at best, about what actually happened between the two. I also, have my opinions/suspicions about what *might* have taken place, but I will reserve those for now. A detailed account *might* have a dramatic impact on the perceptions of fellow members. I'm sure there is much more to this than we know.

Ok this is definately the funniest thread I have ever read on SPCR. I dont think that hyping up his product was that bad. He shouldnt of lied, but if I was selling a product and I needed some advertising then I would go in forums and try to convience people to buy my product, I would just go about it a little different. I dont think he/they should be banned.

By the way I like the idea of sanctioned merchants having a little icon by their name. Like the antecrep could have a little ANTEC logo by his name so you know your talking to a representative of antec, and not some guy named antec.

A little different? Hopefully a lot different(ly)!

Mike, I greatly appreciate that you informed us about this deceptive individual who was manipulating our trusting little forum community. It took real character for you to share this info with us - and in my opinion, the trust and respect lost for silenx has been gained by you. Thanks for the "heads-up".

Perhaps an "Important Update" at the end of your review (including a direct hyperlink to this specific thread) would also be extremely useful to, and appreciated by, your main site readers - especially for the many who would not normally choose to enter the forums after reading the review...

I agree with the idea of a separate account "identifier" for company reps. That make perfect sense to me.

I disagree with MikeC about banning silenx from the forums. Now that the company's misrepresentations have come to light and Peter has had his "pee-pee" smacked, his company is less likely to pull the same stunts again (although the company's comments might be taken with a grain of salt).

I applaud the moderators in catching this and bringing it into the light (I had my doubts like many others, too many clues).

I am in the market for a replacement PSU. I'm not happy with the Antec Truepower that came with my Sonata nor with the company's tech support (The Antec rep in these forums seems to be going out of his way to help but so far to no avail). I'm trying to decide between the Fortron 120mm 300W PSU sold by Newegg for $27 or the 350W 14dB Silenx PSU reviewed recently. Both seem to be high quality products based on the reviews and other peoples experiences. I consider my PC purchases based on the merits of the product, not nessesarily the company (although I refuse to buy products from companies going bankrupt).
Does the Silenx PSU work as advertised? Absolutely!
Does the Silenx company go out of it's way for it's customers? Well, in more ways than one, Yes. Cross-posting in forums is crossing the line but they obviously have a passion for their products.

I still haven't decided which PSU to buy (I'm still hoping for Antec to pull through for me) but I might just buy the Fortron anyway since it's so cheap. I mean I can buy three Fortron PSUs for the price of ONE Silenx PSU. Is one better than the other? I don't know since I own neither. But it seems to me that the Fortron is definately value for money.

I do not work for any of the above mentioned commercial companies nor do I receive goods or services for free. I pay for my stuff just like everyone else does.

I know what I know, and I know what I don't know.
I say what I mean. You'll receive no BS from me.

It seems a lot of you have already made up your mind about Peter Kim and silenX. I call it down to bad judgement at a time when he felt betrayed by Ahanix/ExoticPC. I am in no doubt he put a lot of dedication/work with silenX PSU, and possibly the main driving force behind silenX units when he was at ExoticPC. He seems very knowledgeable about silencing computers and maybe he felt kicked it the teeth by them. We all don’t know the exact circumstances that happened there, so it’s very difficult to judge.

If we were to take this Hypothetical and MikeC is thrown out of the SPCR organisation. We all are up in arms and personally going down there to find what the f**k is going on. The amount of dedication, effort and work MikeC has put into SPCR is unbelievable and has made it such a growing success.

I am not trying to justify Peter Kim actions, but I think he made a very bad mistake at a time when he was not thinking clearly. We all make mistakes in life; it is how we handle it.

Off the topic a little, but I found his service to be excellent, very responsive, quick and service which out shines the “BIG” companies. I hate that kind of service when you spend a lot of time waiting on the phone to get a moron on the other side. Or you write them an email and they respond with a pre-made reply. The couple of times I emailed Peter with questions, the response were quick and knowledgeable.

It would be a real shame if silenX is banned. I felt silenX have a lot more products to offer in the future. Anyway whatever decision Mike takes we will all support you.

Cheer up folks!

Ha! I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!

There was something wierd about that DigitalX guy all along. He only posted in PSU posts and ALWAYS pimped the SilenX stuff, he even linked it in his sig. And then all the wierd sh*t between ExoticPC and SilenX, you could see something funny there. I never commented on any of it because this has been a way more civilized forum than most. I didn't want to start anything (along the lines of what's going on in this thread right now). If we want to be like HardOCP, fine, bring it on.

And as far as this statement goes:



Wasn't that DigitalX shill around LONG before the "split" between ExoticPC and SilenX? You'd have to check post dates to be sure but I'm almost positve that's the case. In which case their ("SilenX" and cohorts) argument is specious anyway.

My vote is: ban those lying Motherf*ckers forever. What they did is pure BS. It's fraud and misrepresentation and shouldn't be tolerated. If people want to buy their stuff, fine but I wouldn't let them promote it around here anymore. There's too many Enrons, Worldcoms and Haliburtons around here already, we don't need any pretenders to that throne in our community.

My 2¢, YMMV!

My .02 euros... I was thinking of placing an order at silenx.com for both a PSU and some fans, but kept delaying it since I read they had switched fans. The only person who claimed to have experience with the new fans was digitalix, whom I hadn't really trusted since reading this post by schnee had put me on alert (good catch BTW!). I did ask digitalix for his opinion on the Jaro fans but his reply was the usual hype and sales-speak so I decided just to wait and see.

I had already contacted silenx.com about the costs of shipping a PSU to Europe. The rates quoted were quite reasonable, and they even offered me a discount. The catch: I would have to write a recommendation for them at resellerratings.com beforehand. In exchange for this recommendation, I would be offered a $10 discount off the shipping costs. This did not seem like a very honest proposal to me. (On the other hand, their customer service seemed really top-notch; quick and informative responses all the way.)

So, putting two and two together, I figured that maybe digitalix had some sort of arrangement with silenx.com that he would praise their products here on SPCR and receive discounts when ordering stuff from them. Since he haid stated that he built systems for a job here it all seemed to fit in. Well, with the benefit of hindsight the real gist of the story seems rather obvious.


I agree with it being fraud and totally intolerable. However, if they truly do have a product as good as, or better than, the PSU sold by ExoticPC, then I feel this community deserves to know about it. Also, ExoticPC does not ship outside North America, which obviously is a problem for many of us. Maybe a review of the silenx.com PSU here in the forums, but not on the main page, would suffice? Though I doubt Mike is up for one at this time (or any other time for that matter). Maybe someone else could write one, someone trustworthy?


As they say, "me too" :)

BUSTED !!!!

I unfortunately feel like a victim of this cunning ploy, on the strength of various post (made mainly by SilenX's aliases) I’ve ordered a 400watt PSU. Funny after reading more threads last week I knew DigitalX wasn't 100% up front, as he was constantly recommending SilenX, plus he had a link to their site in his signature!
Regardless of whether their products are good or bad, I have been misled as I've made a decision based on what I thought was unbiased advice.

Site moderators, would it be possible to append an announcement in the .sig line for *all* the various aliases in question (as has been done for digitalix)? If so, a link to this thread would also be appreciated. I believe a similar announcement should be indelibly appended to silentx alias.

Why? As I, and many others, peruse the archives, I would appreciate a flag that would alert me to think carefully about what this set of aliases has posted. Consider it as a scarlet letter.

My opinion, FWIW, is decidely mixed. As others have pointed out, many of the posts from the aliases seemed to contain genuinely useful information. I do not believe the fraud was egregious enough for banning. The recent MikeC review suggests a very good product, and I will porbably consider it next time I'm in the market. I also prefer "truth in advertizing"; the wonders of electronics allows *retroactive* warning labels that I feel are warranted here. Readers may therefore decide for themselves, after being apprised of the context/connections of the posters.

i find all this rather sad. why on earth do people do this ? do they crave money so much?

You can also just buy an FSP 400-60PFN and mod the fan on it for the same results (as silenx) LOL. Then come in here and try and sell them. Joke!.

Comments like this irk me,


The problem with life and morals in general is that everything is so gray. If we pay too much attention to the dishonestly/injustice in the world, we would all go crazy. So I can understand why one would say the above, it's a way with dealing with it. I myself made a few jokes about this situation.

However, the real value of this site is its information, and thus its integrity is of the utmost importance. We have found a source of misinformation, not information. We need to have a deterrent to prevent this from hapenning in the future. Analogous to this is jail in society. I'm not judging Kim, I'm not saying I'm better than him. We're all human. The fact still remains that we must send a message out there to everyone on the WWW that SPCR will actively ban entities from its site that are found to be fraudulent. I very much agree with Mike's comments. I personally think it would be in the SPCR communities best interest to boycott Silenx.com and ALL its products. The end goal here is to make it a losing business proposition to carry out such activities here at SPCR. It's imperitive that companies have more to lose than gain from this sort of practice. The integrity of the information here must be maintained, without that, this site has nothing.

Eliteziod, I totally understand how you feel cheated by what has gone on. And now you have a real opportunity to help the rest of us out. Since the normal SilenX p1mps have been busted here, those of us who want to buy a good, quiet PSU have to rely on the unbiased experiences of truly neutral parties.

Um, in case I was being a little oblique there, LET US KNOW HOW YOUR PSU IS! If SilenX PSUs really are good, tell us. If they suck, tell us. We need your opinion.

My replies/thoughts after sleeping on the issue one night...

silenx PM'd to say that there are no other aliases involved.


BIG TIME AGREED. It is not apparent from the flagging of only the digitalix user's sig that he is interacting with himself as sammy, etc.


Sort of agree. I guess that would allow silenx to contribute to the efforts here while still identifying him with his bias and deceit. Is there some point where silenx will be able to demonstrate good will to have his scarlet letter removed? It seems there should be room for repentance (which to me means more than just saying you're sorry), but the repentance should be more notorious than the notoriety received for egregious deceit. And that, my friends, takes a lot of time.



Agreed. This, an interesting suggestion from one who has purchased, reviewed and reacted to the silenx product in this thread. @wussboy, you may want to check out this thread since al bundy gives a non-pimped (hey I made up a word ) perspective.


You have to ask, if silenx (the company) continues to exist and promote quiet products, and therefore, people interested in quiet PCs will be interested in their products, what do you do when inquiries about said products end up here, in the forums, even if we ban their reps? Do we just point them to this thread? Do we gain anything by having the designer of the product able to interact with questions, reviews, etc of the product (assuming Peter can do so in a civilized and up front manner and with all the appropriate caveats about the trustworthiness of the retailer)? I guess I'm echoing Justin_R here, sorry.

And man, marc999...very articulate and boy, did you make me think about this. I guess in the absence of fines or other judicial enforcements, a ban and/or boycott is our only means of retaliation and communication that we do not tolerate this kind of behavior. I do think that this fiasco will hurt silenx financially ban/boycott or no.
I lean strongly toward your opinion with the following questions: Ralf Hutter already mentioned Worldcom. Analogously, at what point do we go ahead with using Worldcom/MCI long distance or buying Worldcom stock again? Is there room for us to accept reform at silenx? I'm not sure what it looks like to verify that silenx has reformed other than my remark above about the notoriety of repentance (in word AND deed). I, for one, in both his posts and PMs (is it acceptable to refer to that correspondence here?) get a sense of blame-shifting (it is Ahanix's fault) than acceptance of responsibility for the deception...and I have yet to read a good justification for why they thought this method would help "only to make a clear distinction our product was not to be confused with exotic's and to preserve our rights of the brand" (silenx's description of his motive for the ruse--written above). So, I'd say we still have a long road to recovery, reform, and reinstatement of goodwill--if we choose to take that road at all.

My $.02 + $.02 + $.02 + $.02 + $.02 + $.02 (Man, I'm almost up to a quarter in this thread ...some of you are nodding in agreement. )

I think that any forum members that are associated with/work for/sell silent products have a mandatory distinction (perhaps having "TRADER" where 'silent apprentice' or 'admin' normally is, also a graphical avatar to distinguish them)

also a rule which stops them from promoting their products too much

If "they" weren't caught we would still be seeing daily posts from Sammy and Digitalix and who-knows-else. He only stopped because he was caught. Kudos to SPCR for catching it. There are too many honest, upfront vendors to bother with one who has exhibited such sleaziness.
He obviously wanted to be confused with the "other" Silenx brand or he would be selling these power supplies under a different name now, wouldn't he?

Is there a reason to believe anything digitalix has posted in the last few months? So much time has been wasted discussing the (apparently non-existent) differences between the SilenX.com and ExoticPC.com PSU's since digitalix made up stories about hearing differences between the two. Looking through a history of digitalix's posts, most seem to have the goal of increasing his post count to make him look more experienced and trustworthy, rather than provide any real, useful knowledge to the board.

I doubt the validity of any product comments digitalix has made, about silenx PSU's or any other product. I'm willing to bet he made up his "experiences" with other products, just parroting whatever other testimonials he's read, simply to gain credibility. There has been so much calculated deception... 90% of digitalix' "useful" posts have either praised Silenx.com or spread doubt about other brand PSU's. No sane person would keep this kind of thing going for months purely out of frustration towards his employer.

We could continue to let silenx post on the forum, but does he honestly (pun intended) have anything useful to say? Silenx has done too much damage to SPCR to be allowed to continue using it as a marketing tool.

Sorry, man. Your posting style reminds me of the guy with the same 'nick on Ars.

RE: digitalix, I suspected too, but I've been pretty public with my praise of Zalman stuff on other forums, and have seen plenty of 'fanboy' syndrome in the past, so I let it go. I just didn't think they'd have *several* aliases and do the same thing.



If? Suggest? Come off it. You have done a lot to explicitly show you're of questionable character. The fact that you're still using 'weasel' terminology even now says a lot.

betty was referencing the "McArthy Era" when everybody was accused of being a communist if they said something out of line with the "national character" (kind of like anti-war-in-Iraq folks are accused of being unpatriotic today).

Its a joke...you know, asking folks if they work for silenx before you'll talk to them... I thought it was clever.

'


I totally agree! I stumbled on this thread by accident! If there had been a link in the sig, I would have clicked it immediately. I always start with my posts, to see if there is anything interesting in any of my old threads. Well, all of the sudden I see this tag in digitalix' sig about him being a Silenx.com sales rep. I almost thought it was a joke: I thought maybe he started to get flamed for all his praise of Silenx PSUs. (Dude just seemed to have built an a$$load of computers with silent PSUs, and another a$$load recently using all the different versions of the silenx PSU -- the ExoticPC version, the original Silenx version, the Silenx with the NEW fan... it kept going on. I thought it was just a matter of time before people started to seriously question him about his affiliations). So please throw the same tag on the sigs of all banned individuals, plus the thread URL. Thanks!

Also: Alistair -- from one investigator to another -- nice work! Very sleuthish of you. I'm glad that this has been put out in the open...it puts a lot of things on this board in perspective. But is the user "exoticPC" one of the perpetrators here? Because I've seen several threads where that user seems to be acting as a real representative of ExoticPC. Or was that ExoticPC.com?

Lastly: Miss Kitty: I take it you work for the current management/ownership at ExoticPC, and that you used to work with the now-Silenx crew? Are there any other ExoticPC employees hiding amongst the sheep on this board?

I like this idea.

I'm also of the opinion that silenx should be banned. At least temporarily.

Tagging all of silenx's alter-egos for the sake of the archives is a good idea, too.

I believe that I am the only one with a commercial ID, "ExoticPC.com".
My recent involvement with this forum is far more than I should.
As recommended by Silent Mike, I will be factual and objective on my statement today.

ID Questions:
"ExoticPC.com" is my ID. Post by me exclusively.
"ExoticPC" has been Peter, now SilenX.
"Miss Kitty" is Cathleen. An employee of ExoticPC.com like myself.
She is the one on the other end when you call ExoticPC.com. Please treat her posts as those from any other Silent members.

SilenX Brand:
SilenX products will be branded as Ahanix SilenX starting from June, 2003.
This means all SilenX products will be covered under Ahanix Quality Warranty. This includes all of the ExoticPC power supplies.
(Refer to http://www.ahanix.com/support/warranty.html )

Future Plan:
SilenX series will have retail version of case fans, power supplies, and water cooling system ( uses innovative circulation method which eliminated the need for water reservoir and pump). I will request Silent Mike to evaluate our new products as well.

Louis' Note:
I thank you for all of your business from SPCR. We will continue to provide the best service you've had with us. Please feel free to rate our service at http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2656.html

Louis Yu
louis@exoticpc.com
626.581.3200 Ext.206
626.964.8755 Fax

Its been a few days since I've been reading this thread. $.02, is pretty low of SilenX to resort to what they did. However, I feel somewhat sympathetic to their plight. Had they truly put time and effort against Anahix to get a product out in the open only to have it taken away from then and then CONTINUED to be sold without them, I can only imagine the frustration. As for the length of time of the deception, things take an awful long time to run their course in a business with multiple levels as is the case with Ahanix/ExoticPC. I would tend to believe that the fights over rights/profit sharing (as what it seems to be about) have been going on for months at ExoticPC.

I agree that many have been influenced by all the "support" and that is very deciteful. Though, I would tend to agree, since this site is dedicated to quiet products which is contrary to many online sites, it would behoove us to allow any companies that are aligned with our cause to continue to produce quality products and services, otherwise, the less techinical among us will have to resort to attempting DIY mods on things they may not have the skills to accomplish. We'd all be hitting Home Depot and Auto Parts stores if not for enterpenuers like FrozenCPU, Sunbeam, Antec, and such decide to go into the market with aftermarket PC supplies.

Their credibility is shot, that's true. Though there are only two PSU suppliers who provide sub 15Db PSUs out of the box. I think if we want to continue to spur a mainstream movement to quieter (and thus more productive) computing, it would make sense to give them some slack. Already we are seeing some product differentiation due to competition (SilenX's use of fan isolators and a different brand fan), perhaps we'll see more in the future if they are given the chance. This is, after all, the most influencial site for silent computing, our opinions and attitudes can make or break a company as much as their own actions.

Well this sure is an interesting development.

What?s that saying Doctor Phil always says, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior? Well I?m seriously uncertain about their future looking at their past.

As far as I?m concerned Silenx and all his alter egos were polluting our forums the entire length of his visit. While he may have on the rare occasion offered some valuable advice, in the end his sole reason from the beginning was to sway people towards his very own products.

Having just one account to do this why that would be far too normal, why not go all out and have a veritable circus, yeah that?ll really help.

In the end Peter you?re competing with your own work over at Exoticpc which would appear to be damn close to anything you sell at Silenx. You?ve managed to confuse a great deal of customers with your split and then make readers wonder who I should go with. Well I?d just like to applaud your actions over the past few months for helping make the decision that much easier.

You may not have been happy with how your relationship with Exoticpc ended but that?s life, sometimes you just might get screwed. But there?s no reason to deceive a huge chunk of your potential market.

I honestly don?t understand why either company would care about holding onto the Silenx name at the time. Because as far as I had seen on the forums although on paper the products seemed that they were destined to be great, when the bad blood started between the two companies the Silenx name still hadn?t really proven itself.

Getting the rough end of a deal doesn?t give you a get out of jail card in my books.

I?m thankful to your contributions as an inventor to the world of Silent Computing, but I question your business and morals.

That?s about it, so sad and so funny at the same time.

Hi Louis,

Thank you for posting this useful info about the new brand name, new Ahanix warranty, and future product line. It's good to see you still looking out for us. Unlike your ex-employee, you personally have always been open, honest, and up-front with us at SPCR. I'm sure this is much appreciated and valued by all the members here.

I bet it was really frustrating for you to read the mis-information that your ex-employee was posting about your company and products in these forums, and I applaud you for having the wisdom to avoid getting drawn into it within the forum threads.

For what it's worth to the other members here, please remember that we have absolutely no credible info whatsoever about the under-the-surface reasons behind the split between ExoticPC.com and their former employee. All detailed reasons about it supplied so far in this forum are entirely questionable, biased, and/or speculative at best. Please remember that the little guy is certainly not always the victim! In fact, for all we know, ExoticPC.com could likely have received the same deceptive, manipulative, and unethical treatment from this ex-employee as we did.

If we just stick to the facts as we actually do know them, what remains to distinguish these two companies is very clear: ExoticPC.com has thus far always honored and respected our trust, and that other group has abused our trust quite badly. I think this should remain the most important distinction, since the manner in which a business treats its target market from day-one demonstrates the reputation and integrity of that business.

Mike,
I will totally back you if you ban silenX and his products/reviews from this site. In fact, I would encourage you to do so.

Not long ago, before the internet, and before traveling was so easy, a person's reputation in the community was important. His word meant something, his handshake meant something. People knew everyone in the community and reputation important.

Nowadays, the internet brings out the worst in many people. They feel protected from the spotlight since nobody can see them behind their PC. For the most part, it's true. It's very difficult to identify who the person is surfing the net. And there are not enough people being caught to be shown as an example to the younger generation.

As the community, we should all be good stewards and help eachother with this issues like this as best as we can. Mike, I feel this is a good opportunity for you to take action.

I have to agree with rpc180. Yes, we all now have a personal distaste for silenx and digitalix and the rest of the muppets who we thought we were interacting with. Yes, we as a community have suffered a loss and are, as we should be, prepared to self-defend and ban the offending party. This is standard community justice (if there were such a thing as a one-forum-only online prison, we would send silenx there -- since there is not, we are left with exile.) As a part of the justice system, I am more than alright with that.

But I think we should allow him to stay. We despise the liar and the defrauder: but many of us also despise the corporation. I personally really do feel sorry for those guys that they have been ripped the way that they have. Their work, their pride, their incomes, their security, even, probably to a certain extent, their futures, were place in jeopardy by a self-serving corporate decision (my interpretation). They chose the low road; but that doesn't invalidate their need to take a road at all.

More than that, do we want to start austricizing the handful of companies that sell products that are specifically tailored to our needs? I'm not ready to. Had they actually defrauded someone on these boards, demonstrated a truly deviant business practice (ie, malfeasance), promised an unbelievable product and delivered a jalopy, or demonstrated very poor product, service, support, availability, or other reliability, then they should be caned and then canned. This community will heal from the wound that they caused. The best choice now would be to rehabilitate them as members of this community, so that they can continue to get a first-hand, interactive understanding of what we, their consumers, need.

I will now relinquish my soap-box.

Thank you everyone for your genuine comments and thoughts. I should not be surprised by the depth and breadth of your responses, yet I am. It has been a learning experience for me.

I would like to bring closure to this incident and move on. My "action" is simple but I believe it is appropriate. I've posted it as an open letter requesting compliance from Peter Kim.

i think you've taken the right action.