AMD Turion 64 on the Desktop

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

running with skype, voipstunt, avgfree and emule in background online.

about latences (first pic of my previous post), one friend said me that I should redouble that result for PowerNow!/C&Q issues...

Last, look at the P-Rating...

believable?

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

with PowerNow! disabled.

buzzlightyear · **Joined:** Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:35 am **Posts:** 149

Hey marcoland:

I have a DFI NF3 250 mobo and an 1.35v Oakville CPU (kinda like an older verison of mobile Sempron (rev D) but with 512k cache. I read the exchange between you and Mats. I still don't understand the bios setting you have to make PowerNow! works -- to undervolt and change multiplier as well. Can you share your settings with me?

Mats · **Posted:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:39 am

It could be BIOS version dependant, you never know. There are lots of BIOS versions for this board AFAIK.

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

buzzlightyear wrote:

Hey marcoland:

I have a DFI NF3 250 mobo and an 1.35v Oakville CPU (kinda like an older verison of mobile Sempron (rev D) but with 512k cache. I read the exchange between you and Mats. I still don't understand the bios setting you have to make PowerNow! works -- to undervolt and change multiplier as well. Can you share your settings with me?

My BIOS is the official last one: 6.23
I have installed also the latest driver for the cpu: 1.2.2.2
The fact of uninstalled PowerNow driver, I think, is not important.
I explain better. The steps I've followed are these: disabled CnQ support in BIOS settings, installed drivers 1.2.2.2, and set the "portable/laptop" energy config under the alimentation tab, reboot to Windows. After this first reboot I went again in BIOS and I had enabled CnQ support. Just this. Very simple, just as a normal desktop socket754.
For my big overclock I had just added the VCore special of 126%, but I've left the default value for the principal Vcore = auto.
Without overclocking the PowerNow was perfectly working, too, giving downvolting at 0.960V in idle and up to 1.200V for full load (my CPU works at 1.200V by default).
If you find problems, try to clear cmos and repeat these steps.
One thing for your CPU, after the setting "auto" for Vcore, try to reboot and enter again in BIOS to see what is the voltage that it shows. If it is just 1.000V try to use the Special Vcore at 113% and reboot. I don't know if the BIOS recognizes the voltage request of the CPU. After that take a look with CPU-Z and let me know!
If it works also for you... enjoy your CPU!
Ciao! :wink:

buzzlightyear · **Joined:** Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:35 am **Posts:** 149

Thanks. marcoland. I will give it a try.

Edit: It works. Thanks. Still have to fine tune the overclocking.

How did you get such good overclock.? I was lucky to get an Oakville that is a good overclocker. I can get to 2,430 hz (270x9) prime stable @ 1.475v. The Oakville does not seem to like voltage over 1.5v. I will play with it more.

My Oakville, however. is a great under-clocker :
270 x 9 = 2430 1.475v prime
270 x 8 = 2160 1.3 v prime
270 x 7 = 1890 1.15v prime
270 x 6 = 1620 1.025 prime
270 x 5 = 1350 0.95v prime

Because CnQ can only swing from 4x to 9x, I may have to use Rmclock or CrystalCPUID instead because I could get 1.8ghz @ 1.15v vs. 1.08ghz (270x4) @ 1.25v (with CnQ).

Anyway thank you for your help.

jAMBAZZ · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:07 am **Posts:** 16

marcoland im afraid it isnt changing the voltage after all.

It is true that if you change CPU-Z.ini to have VCore=4, it will show a vcore in CPU-Z that decreases and increases proportional to multipliers. But if you look at the tool "ITE Smartguardian" which came with the DFI motherboard, and can also be downloaded from DFIs website, you will see that VCore stays the same.

You might say "Well, not here, ITE Smartguardian must show wrong vcore!"

So I did some simple testing:

I monitored my "proposed" CnQ idle state temps @ 1.0 Ghz, 1.0Vcore and it settled @ 37c.
Then I turned off "Minimal Powermanagement" in order to disable CnQ/PowerNow, and waited an hour only to find CPU temp still at 37c..

I even tried booting to BIOS and manually setting CPU speed at 1.2 Ghz, and vcore @ 1.2v and this settled to an idle CPU temp of 33c.

Could you try ITE Smartguardian and see what CPU vcore it reports?

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

jAMBAZZ wrote:

marcoland im afraid it isnt changing the voltage after all.

It is true that if you change CPU-Z.ini to have VCore=4, it will show a vcore in CPU-Z that decreases and increases proportional to multipliers. But if you look at the tool "ITE Smartguardian" which came with the DFI motherboard, and can also be downloaded from DFIs website, you will see that VCore stays the same.

You might say "Well, not here, ITE Smartguardian must show wrong vcore!"

So I did some simple testing:

I monitored my "proposed" CnQ idle state temps @ 1.0 Ghz, 1.0Vcore and it settled @ 37c.
Then I turned off "Minimal Powermanagement" in order to disable CnQ/PowerNow, and waited an hour only to find CPU temp still at 37c..

I even tried booting to BIOS and manually setting CPU speed at 1.2 Ghz, and vcore @ 1.2v and this settled to an idle CPU temp of 33c.

Could you try ITE Smartguardian and see what CPU vcore it reports?

Hi jAMBAZZ,
I'm sorry, maybe I didn't so much clear in what I said to you. But I repeat to you that there aren't any connections between VCore=4 and the real Vcore recognized by, for example, Smartguardian.
Try to follow what I've written in the previous post to buzzlightyear.
Also for the VCore (it's the same).
Ciao.

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

Here are the two screens about ITE SartGuardian. As you can see the PowerNow! is well recognized.

jAMBAZZ · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:07 am **Posts:** 16

ok marcoland so I should leave CPU-Z vcore=0 right?

Anyhow, is your setup using:

1) PowerNow (pre-windows speed = 4x200)
2) CnQ (pre-windows speed = 9x200)

- because I can get get both to work, its a bug in the DFI I think.

If i manually (By BIOS) set multiplier to 4x, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set multiplier to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 4x200.

If I manually (By BIOS) set multiplier to 11x, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set multiplier to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 11x200.

hehe.. its the same with vcore.
If I manually (By BIOS) set vcore to 1.0, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set vcore to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 1.0.

If I manually (By BIOS) set vcore to 1.5, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set vcore to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 1.5.

o_O

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

jAMBAZZ wrote:

ok marcoland so I should leave CPU-Z vcore=0 right?

Right.

jAMBAZZ wrote:

Anyhow, is your setup using:

1) PowerNow (pre-windows speed = 4x200)
2) CnQ (pre-windows speed = 9x200)

- because I can get get both to work, its a bug in the DFI I think.

If i manually (By BIOS) set multiplier to 4x, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set multiplier to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 4x200.

If I manually (By BIOS) set multiplier to 11x, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set multiplier to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 11x200.

hehe.. its the same with vcore.
If I manually (By BIOS) set vcore to 1.0, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set vcore to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 1.0.

If I manually (By BIOS) set vcore to 1.5, and reboot and go back to BIOS and set vcore to Auto and reboot, it will run @ 1.5.

o_O

I see, I had the same problem!

You are on the right way!
I had cleared cmos and I had set "auto" on CnQ setting. Just This. Don't tuch multiplier or Vcore at all! I also think it is a bug of DFI, but it is sufficient clear cmos!

jAMBAZZ · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:07 am **Posts:** 16

WEIRD! marcoland.. just after I had given up all hope getting it to work.. IT works?!!!! whaaaaat

So weird.. I didnt clear the CMOS, but I must have done something right.. Anyways now its working with PowerNow! tech, not CnQ.

All my BIOS Settings are at Auto, everything! BIOS reports CPU voltage @ 0.95v (dont know why) and when in Windows Smartguardian and CPU-Z reports 0.96v correctly and CPU is 800Mhz (CPU-Z ini has Vcore=0). As soon as I need CPU Speed PowerNow! thrusts CPU Speed up to 2200 Mhz and vcore up to 1,4v.

In the ideal world it would be 0.9v and 1.35v but since I don't exactly know how I made it work I'm not gonna mess with it

My Silent Specs:
Antec Sonata I - with NoiseControl FleeceMagic interior
DFI UT LanParty NF3 250 Gb BIOS 5/04 TicTac mod
Turion ML-40 @ PowerNow!
ThermalRight SLK-948U + Papst @ 750-1500RPM

:wink:

edit: perhaps entering this registry entry might have helped, but I cannot confirm! HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AmdK8\Parameters make a REG_DWORD with the value HackFlags set to 1

marcoland · **Joined:** Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:48 pm **Posts:** 11

jAMBAZZ wrote:

WEIRD! marcoland.. just after I had given up all hope getting it to work.. IT works?!!!! whaaaaat

So weird.. I didnt clear the CMOS, but I must have done something right.. Anyways now its working with PowerNow! tech, not CnQ.

All my BIOS Settings are at Auto, everything! BIOS reports CPU voltage @ 0.95v (dont know why) and when in Windows Smartguardian and CPU-Z reports 0.96v correctly and CPU is 800Mhz (CPU-Z ini has Vcore=0). As soon as I need CPU Speed PowerNow! thrusts CPU Speed up to 2200 Mhz and vcore up to 1,4v.

GOOOOD jAMBAZZ!!!!!!!!!
I'm very happy for you!
Today I had thought to ask something about Turion and NF3 UT 250GB directly to Oscar Wu, but I've seen that he is no more active in many forums since at least one year...
I will try, anyway.
Maybe also TicTac could answer...

jAMBAZZ wrote:

In the ideal world it would be 0.9v and 1.35v but since I don't exactly know how I made it work I'm not gonna mess with it

My Silent Specs:
Antec Sonata I - with NoiseControl FleeceMagic interior
DFI UT LanParty NF3 250 Gb BIOS 5/04 TicTac mod
Turion ML-40 @ PowerNow!
ThermalRight SLK-948U + Papst @ 750-1500RPM

The minimun voltage that our mobo recognizes for Turion CPUs during the boot is nominally 1.00V, but actually it is reduced of 0.04V. I don't know why, but it is such as a lost voltage.
If you see other voltages it is the same for each ones (Chipset voltage, Memory voltage, and so on; all is reduced of 0.04V instead of what you set in BIOS).
So I think that the PowerNow technology works (GREAT), but the voltages control in general is not at the best status for now (also if this mobo is the best one in voltages matter).

jAMBAZZ wrote:

edit: perhaps entering this registry entry might have helped, but I cannot confirm! HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\AmdK8\Parameters make a REG_DWORD with the value HackFlags set to 1

Yes, as I said to you in pvt: the last chance! :wink:

But I have tryed to disable it setting to 0, and PowerNow! still worked... so it is not important at all. It is just needed for K7 CPUs and XP (there is an article in the MS knowledgebase).
Ciao!

loz · **Posted:** Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:02 am

You're lucky Aris : http://www.clubic.com/afficher-en-plein ... 68242.html
Albatron offers a mini-ITX s754, GeForce 6150, DVI, Gigabit Ethernet...
Let's hope it's Turion compatible... and cheap of course !

loz · **Posted:** Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:25 am

Yes it's meant to support Turion : http://www.mini-itx.com/2006/03/09/alba ... -itx-board

eternizer · **Joined:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:36 pm **Posts:** 55

But Aris might have to wait for quite a while to actually get it.

Albatron also revealed their s754 mATX board with GeForce 6150 chipset last January, but nobody seems to spot it on the market yet.

Btw, does it support C'n'Q or PowerNow!?

mgast · **Joined:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:39 am **Posts:** 2

Long time reader, first time poster.

I bought a Turion64 MT-30 to use in a home Asterisk system, and based on this article, I bought the MSI RS-482M-IL board to put it in. I was able to install Linux without any serious hitches, but the CPU speed selection doesn't work under BIOS 1.4. When the system boots up, I get the error:

powernow-k8: BIOS error - no PSB or ACPI _PSS objects

I checked that CnQ is enabled in the BIOS, but it doesn't report Vcore options to the OS. I'll try flashing the BIOS to see if that helps, but I may be looking for a new board soon. Are any m-ATX boards known to work with CnQ on Linux?

mgast · **Joined:** Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:39 am **Posts:** 2

mgast wrote:

When the system boots up, I get the error:

powernow-k8: BIOS error - no PSB or ACPI _PSS objects

Duh. I needed to upgrade to BIOS version 1.5, which has support for the Turion. Interestingly, you can see the difference between PowerNow on the Turion and the Athlon. Here's the new output from the kernel on the Turion, which specifies the lowest power draw first:

powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon 64 / Opteron processors (version 1.50.4)
powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0x0 (800 MHz), vid 0x16 (1000 mV)
powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0x8 (1600 MHz), vid 0xa (1300 mV)

(Not that it matters--the MSI board defaults to maximum speed.)

On an older Winchester-based A64, the highest speed comes first:

powernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon 64 / Opteron processors (version 1.50.4)
powernow-k8: 0 : fid 0xc (2000 MHz), vid 0x6 (1400 mV)
powernow-k8: 1 : fid 0xa (1800 MHz), vid 0x8 (1350 mV)
powernow-k8: 2 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x12 (1100 mV)

Now, all I need to do is get MSI to correct the Vcore, since I don't have the luxury of CrystalCPUID on Linux...

Poodle · **Posted:** Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:26 pm

Great article as always Mike,

I just thought that you might want to change the name from Toledo to Manchester on the X2 3800+ chip...

/
Poodle

valnar · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2006 4:53 pm

OK, I have the DFI Lanparty UT nF3 250Gb motherboard with a Turion MT40 and tried everything I can to get CnQ or Powernow working. I think I loaded every AMD CPU or nVidia driver I could find and played with all the settings possible as well as the BIOS, and I can't get it to go above 800Mhz speed and the .96V except by using Rightmark (or manually adjusting the BIOS to the higher settings). I cleared the CMOS too. This is all on a new install of Windows XP SP2.

Any step-by-step method to get it working?

Robert

Billman635 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:51 am

This is probably old news by now, but for what it's worth the Shuttle SK21G barebones kit (currently available at Newegg for $177 with S/H) officially supports several versions of the Turion 64, up to and including the ML/MT-40. Add an ML-40 for $218 with FedEx 3 day shipping from Monarch Computer Systems and you have a neat little system with above average performance. Your AGP video card(s) and DDR memory are a natural fit, and it will run 64 bit Linux or Microsoft software! Such a deal!

Devonavar · **Posted:** Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:18 am

Charles Perreault had this to say about the incorrect voltages that are so common when using a desktop board with a Turion:

Quote:

Hello,

In you article "AMD Turion 64 on the Desktop" (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article300-page1.html), I noticed your hypothesis about the 1.3V of the voltage core of the turion MT where it should read 1.2V :

> At this point it is impossible to know exactly why the discrepancy occurred, and why it seems to be so widespread. There are a number of possibilities:
The MSI board is detecting the stock voltage correctly, and the voltages specified by the OPN are being interpreted incorrectly.
AMD has changed the stock voltage without updating the OPN for our processors.
The MSI board and many other boards are misinterpreting the CPUID string on the CPU, and thus applying the incorrect voltage.
None of these hypothesis is correct, or the 3rd is partly correct. The MSI board detects the voltage ID correctly (which is 10 to get 1.2V) using the CPUID integer (not the "AMD Turion(tm) MT-XX" but rather an hexadecimal ID) in a table called the Power-States Table located in the bios. When a motherboard does not seem to support the powernow! feature (cpu locked at maximum or minimum frequency, like the DFI Lancaster in your article), it's because this table (PSB/PST) is absent (which is common) or does not include the turion cpuids (which is even more common). This is also combined with a bad implementation of ACPI since the Turions/AMD64 frequency scaling should be done via ACPI nowadays, not via the PSB/PST legacy mode. Unfortunatelly, many laptops and almost every desktop motherboards have a bad ACPI implentation.

The voltage ID is then used by the bios or powernow! drivers to calculate the core voltage using the following formulaes :

1.550V - voltageID * 0.025V for desktop AMD64 cpus
1.450V - voltageId * 0.025V for mobile turions cpus

The fact is that the bios from every desktop board I saw is using the AMD64 formula for EVERY cpu, including turions. This results in core voltage always 0.1V higher than specified, at least for turions, exactly like the MSI board did when you tested it.

By the way, it is possible to get Powernow! working with every desktop board supporting turions (even the DFI one) under Linux. I created a patch of the powernow-k8 driver hardcoding the frequency / voltage ids for many turions that bypasses the bios. Also, patching the formula for calculating the core voltage can be done in the powernow-k8.c file of the linux kernel, resulting of perfect powernow! support with the MSI motherboard.

So, the answer to the bad core voltage is simple : the bios / powernow! driver uses the bad formula to calculate the core voltage even if it detects the right voltage ID.

Regards,

Charles Perreault
------------------------------------
M.Sc Computer Science
University of Sherbrooke

ithinkpc · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:46 am

Aris wrote:

show me a mini-itx AMD Turion 64 motherboard and i'll buy it. otherwise i'm stuck with either an underpowered VIA or an overpriced Pentium-M

i'll stick with Pentium-M

i just ordered a few of these.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.bcmcom.com/bcm_product_mx482rs.htm

MikeC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:30 am

FYI, a socket 754 mini-ITX board with a standard k8 (not am2) hs retention bracket was shown by Albatron at Computex. It may not have been released...

http://www.albatron.com.tw/english/it/m ... ro_id=215#

Epiacenter described it.

Vanseb · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:36 am

The card is available

ithinkpc · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:47 am

Vanseb wrote:

The card is available

Which card?

rpsgc · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:35 am

ithinkpc wrote:

Vanseb wrote:

The card is available

Which card?

The motherboard MikeC showed.

Some user @ HardOCP wrote:

I got a reply from albatron about the board, they said the KI51PV-754 will be available in small quantity(in the us anyway) the end of august, for a price tag around $310

AMD Turion 64 on the Desktop

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