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 Post subject: Shuttle X100 Complete SFF PC
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:18 am 
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Shuttle expands into complete systems: The X100


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:50 pm 
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This one should have been cooled passive, like the mCubed HFX mini.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:17 am 
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I'm VERY curious to know something more on noise and vibration about the SB35 7200.2 Seagate series

Nik


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:59 am 
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Does anyone else notice that it strongly resembles the NES? Vintage mid-80s. Can't say I like the look of it, though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:25 pm 
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Just in time for version 2. Looks like this one should have lower thermals and less power draw. But I expect the same noise levels.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4228


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:33 pm 
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Interesting that they've gone backwards and added ps/2 ports as well..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:02 pm 
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dragmor wrote:
Just in time for version 2. Looks like this one should have lower thermals and less power draw. But I expect the same noise levels.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4228


The x200 draws less power and has lower thermals due to the fact that we've taken out the ATI X1400 MXM card in it. Acoustics will be better since the cooling mechanism will only need to handle the CPU, instead of both CPU and VPU in the x100.

You guys would be quite surprised on the number of request we've had to bring PS2 ports back. We still get request to bring parallel and serial ports back.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:13 pm 
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I'd request all of those. I use every single one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:30 pm 
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Would you like some ISA slots with that, Devonavar? :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:42 pm 
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qviri wrote:
Would you like some ISA slots with that, Devonavar? :D


Be careful what you wish for http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/mb886.htm

Going back to the review, I was a little disapointed that it didn't cover whether a laptop drive could easily be substituted to reduce noise, or if there just isn't enough room/any appropriate mountings.

No doubt x200 will have a number of advantages when it appears, but hopefuly it'll be possible to buy one or other without a drive installed -for the media center machine I want one of these for, I want a 750 (actually, I want 3TB, so it doesn't have to go running to a fileserver, but that's by the by). I don't understand why shuttle don't offer an option to ship it without a drive installed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:23 pm 
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|Romeo| wrote:
I don't understand why shuttle don't offer an option to ship it without a drive installed.

It's sold as a complete system, not a barebones. Very few, if any, buyers would consider a system purchase w/o a drive and software installed. Many PC users have never installed Windows. (well, not on the machine initially... tho many probably have been forced to reinstall later. :lol: :lol: ) It's a different market than represented by most forum activists.

An aside:

Keep in mind that SPCR's traffic on the main site is 4 times that in the forums. Only about 20% of forums visitors actually register. Plus, among 13278 registered members, over 3500 have made no posts at all, some 3500 have made fewer than 2 posts, and only about 3500 have posted more than 10 times. In other words, if you are active in these forums, you can consider yourself in a very select group. By and large, it's a group of people who are capable of building their own PCs and installing the OS -- and often do. We haven't done a survey to confirm this, but I suspect that a large number of less vocal visitors simply do not have the time or interest to custom build their own machines, although they are very interested in a quiet computer -- which is why most of them end up here. Half the site's traffic comes via searches for quiet / silent / pc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:41 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
The fact that the X200 will come with a remote just about guarantees that I'll buy one when it lands in November.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:31 am 
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MikeC wrote:
|Romeo| wrote:
I don't understand why shuttle don't offer an option to ship it without a drive installed.

It's sold as a complete system, not a barebones. Very few, if any, buyers would consider a system purchase w/o a drive and software installed. Many PC users have never installed Windows. (well, not on the machine initially... tho many probably have been forced to reinstall later. :lol: :lol: ) It's a different market than represented by most forum activists.


I didn't mean instead of as a complete system.

Consider my grumble altered to "why don't Shuttle offer this as a barebones as well?"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:00 pm 
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Quote:
You guys would be quite surprised on the number of request we've had to bring PS2 ports back. We still get request to bring parallel and serial ports back.

If your customers request you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?

Apple makes money hand over fist, and they DON'T do it by dumbing down their products to the least common denominator.

And that's all I have to say about that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:04 pm 
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Also, on the review: why are we comparing this system to the iMac? Isn't it more akin to the Mac Mini in size and form factor?

A friend of mine at work tried to use the Mac Mini under XP as a Windows Media Center box, but the Mac Mini fan ramps up to *very* noisy levels according to him.. so it was unworkable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:26 pm 
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That's because Apple not only sells computers, but overprized keyboards and mice too.

I'm on my 4th keyboard and my 3rd mouse in about 17 years of private computer use. I've had more than 10 computers in that same period. Neither my keyboard nor my mouse is giving any signs it will break in the near future. So I hope the PS/2 ports will stay for a few years. Why trash something that is working perfectly well? Progress? Not really. The technology inside the keyboards hasn't improved in that period. Just the plug that connects it to the computer has changed.

_____

Anybody else had one of these:
http://www.biblio.com/books/31008647.html
Real quality serial mouse. Lasted more than 10 years, with intensive use.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:19 pm 
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I used to think like this. Then I upgraded my ball mouse to an optical wireless. Wow it made a difference - that much better tracking, easier movement, and with no wire I could move it everywhere on the desk. Cost me a grand total of $15 or so.

Just now, I got a nice deal on a wireless combo keyboard + mouse for $20. I'm not too keen on the mouse, I think my other one is better, but the keyboard sure is interesting. It may seem that things like a volume knob or a scroll wheel on a keyboard are frivolities, but so far I did use it already, it's easier than going into the volume control. I'm not entirely convinced of the tactile feel of the keys themselves, I still think that both my old PS/2 clacker and my thinkpad keyboard are better, but by typing five minutes I did get used to it a bit more.

This is my first time ever of buying devices, previously I always inherited generic stuff from the family. I don't feel shafted for the amount of money that I've spent.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:46 am 
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I said I had three mice.

That Genius had a metal ball with a layer of rubber. Real heavy, real friction. Never a problem. That's good technology with good implementation.

Second mouse had a plastic ball. Junked after two months of irritation. The technoly was still good. The implementation just sucked.

Third mouse is optical. New technology. But the progress is mainly for the manufacturer, not the end user. Because mice with a heavy metal ball like the Genius are more expensive to make.

Wires or wireless has no influence on this. It still needs something with a plug. There were wireless PS/2 mice before there were USB mice.

So to reitterate, very smart move from Shuttle to bring those ports back.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:50 pm 
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The comparison with the iMac vs. the Mac Mini was done for one simple reason: We've reviewed the iMac. We haven't reviewed the Mac Mini. The iMac also happens to share several characteristics with the X100, such as processor, small/unusual form factor, low noise, and a minimalist approach. I can't think of any other systems we've reviewed that make for a better comparison. Yes, a Mac Mini would have been ideal, but that's a whole other review...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:00 am 
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Quote:
The comparison with the iMac vs. the Mac Mini was done for one simple reason: We've reviewed the iMac. We haven't reviewed the Mac Mini.

So what? It's still a wildly inappropriate comparison. The form factor of the iMac is completely different, and it has an embedded LCD monitor. It's quite literally apples and oranges.

I have it on very good authority that the Mac Mini has serious noise problems under load. It'd be nice if spcr was able to verify this and compare to the X100/X200.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:04 am 
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Quote:
So to reitterate, very smart move from Shuttle to bring those ports back.

I might agree with you on a typical desktop system. On a system this small, every legacy port takes up room that could be used for modern peripherals. Your insistence on an ancient, obsolete connector is costing the rest of us 2 extra USB ports.

Some customers aren't worth having. The type of person who desperately clings to his or her creaky old ps/2 mouse and ps/2 keyboard probably isn't going to spend a lot of money on computer hardware anyway.

No offense, but that's how I see it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:16 am 
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Quote:
So what? It's still a wildly inappropriate comparison


"Wildly"? They are both quiet PC's with novel form factors which are designed to take up less space on the desktop; that makes them pretty similar (and comparable) from an SPCR POV.

Quote:
On a system this small, every legacy port takes up room that could be used for modern peripherals. Your insistence on an ancient, obsolete connector is costing the rest of us 2 extra USB ports.


Um, what's stopping you from using a USB hub to expand the number of USB ports?

Quote:
Some customers aren't worth having.


Nice. So much for "the customer is king". :roll:

I get an intuition that this thread is in danger of developing into a Mac/PC flame war; this is to be avoided at all costs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:49 am 
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Quote:
The type of person who desperately clings to his or her creaky old ps/2 mouse and ps/2 keyboard probably isn't going to spend a lot of money on computer hardware anyway.


You might be surprised how much money us "PS2" folks spend on equipment ;p

When I stop having clients, and reading threads in forums, that say "my USB keyboard doesn't work right", "my usb mouse is acting funny but my PS2 one works", "is anyone else having driver problems"(for a keyboard????) then maybe I'll stop using PS2.

USB was a port design pushed by Microsoft and its partners on an agenda for a media PC. It was intended to be the answer to Apple's use of IEEE-1394 (aka Firewire). Unfortunately, USB is far inferior when it comes to data transfer rates and maturity. It is also crippled with a poorly designed connector that is easily knocked out of contact (Firewire also suffers form this to a great extent), and a maximum usable cable length that (without powered extender/hub) can be ludicrous.

Contrary to popular belief there are also people out there that use their systems for more than surfing the net and playing games. Much scientific, enigeering, test equipment and numerous other pieces of technical equipment that is computer controled relies on RS-232 serial and there is a huge data acquisition market (as well as high end laser printers) that depends on parallel interfaces.

There is good reason that high-end work stations still have "legacy" ports. And before USB-RS232/Parallel converters are mentioned - they don't work properly with all equipment/software packages.

Computers are a tool, like anything else; buy the one that has the features you need for the job you need to do - but be aware that not everyone has the same needs.

As regards "legacy" technology, some motherboard makers have even started putting a ISA slots back on their motherboards (for example http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/487906) :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:44 pm 
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Shuttle - Kevin Tu wrote:

Acoustics will be better since the cooling mechanism will only need to handle the CPU, instead of both CPU and VPU in the x100.



Could I get rid of the fan for X200? :D


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 Post subject: ps2 ports
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:55 am 
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Location: Canada
It always makes me nervous when I read "advice" about future changes online. The designers and manufacturers read the posts and I get scared that they may heed them. Take advice regarding ps2 ports for example. I use both types of keyboard interfaces. Many times, and not just with one computer, my ps2 keyboard has saved me a lot of grief. Somewhere in the booting of Windows 2000 or Windows XP (the operating systems I use) the ps2 ports become live well before the usb ports. Early enough that when the booting freezes or there is some other problem I still have keyboard and mouse access. If I am using my usb keyboard and mouse I have to yank them out, pull the plug, attach the ps2 keyboard and try to boot again. Please don't drop these "legacy" ports!


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