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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:30 am 
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wwenze --

Theoretically, yes, the 120mm fan PSU design is not a model of thermal efficiency. Neither is the ATX case form factor. In practice, they are perfectly workable for both thermals and acoustics.

-- convection loses hugely to even the tiniest bit of forced airflow; a slow near-silent fan blowing in almost any direction is many times more efficient than massive passive heatsinks and clever convection design in the context of CPU/GPU heat dissipation within a PC.

-- the difference in noise between one fan vs. even several is often imperceptible if speed is well managed and high quality fans are used. This also reduces the risk of catastrophic fan failure -- you're not relying on just one.

-- cost is always the biggest issue with customization. Tweaking a CPU for the lowest stable Vcore requires time consuming trial & error for each machine -- not something any system integrator wants. (Although if someone has already developed some kind of automated script, please contact me! ;) ) Very few system integrators can afford to manufacture any significant custom components; you need economies of scale.

-- w/regard to fanless systems, EPCN already offers fanless systems in TNN cases. I doubt they will go further down the fanless path. There are just too many hurdles.... unless they want to also offer mCubed-based systems. Except for very low power, high efficiency systems, and/or special applications, I am not a proponent of fanless design. It's not economical or efficient, and longevity of components is almost always affected due to higher operating temps. (Check the capacitors on your motherboards, all of you who run fanless systems...)

-- having said that, this is just the beginning of SPCR's exploration of commercial PC design, so the future could be full of surprises... for all of us.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:56 am 
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Evil Gnomes wrote:
slightly off topic, but does anyone know where to get the 5.25" vent used on the model 11?


Also my question :!: :?: Would be great for ducted airflow to the PSU
in an existing or non-EPCN system ...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:47 am 
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b3nbranch wrote:
Evil Gnomes wrote:
slightly off topic, but does anyone know where to get the 5.25" vent used on the model 11?


Also my question :!: :?: Would be great for ducted airflow to the PSU
in an existing or non-EPCN system ...


Sign me up--I'd like to get the 5.25" vent and the duct.

Mmm--EPCN could do us all a favor and post the template for the duct--we could download and print the template and make our own duct.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:55 am 
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Evil Gnomes wrote:
slightly off topic, but does anyone know where to get the 5.25" vent used on the model 11?

AFAIK, it's a CD drive bay cover from Antec's Take 3/4 "audio workstation" rackmount cases which EPCN use in some of their Digital Audio Workstation systems.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:20 pm 
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is a 50% markup on price really worth it for a custom air vent for the PSU, and to have someone else put it together for you?

i guess it may be for people who don't have the time or know-how to do it themselves.

It was the first time in history a prebuilt computer had ALL the hardware component choices i would pick myself, including the vx922 monitor. They need to have a 2.1 speaker system choice though.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:42 pm 
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Aris wrote:
is a 50% markup on price really worth it for a custom air vent for the PSU, and to have someone else put it together for you?

i guess it may be for people who don't have the time or know-how to do it themselves.


Exactly right--this system is perfect for people who lack the knowledge or time to build themselves a quiet system.

I have two friends who are looking for new systems, and they want a pre-assembled box. I've been looking for something quiet for them--and there ain't much out there. Now I know exactly what to recommend.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Aris wrote:
is a 50% markup on price really worth it for a custom air vent for the PSU, and to have someone else put it together for you?

i guess it may be for people who don't have the time or know-how to do it themselves.

I won't pretend to know anything about what is considered "fair" pricing for systems assembled from retail parts. I simply don't keep track of such things closely enough. My impression is that EPCN pricing is not bargain basement... but it's competitive with offerings from any of the big brands -- HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. Acoustically, I don't think there's much to compare.

Remember, only about 1% of all computers are built by DIYers. This was Shuttle's assessment of the SFF barebones market limit -- which they learned by hitting the ceiling hard. And those barebones are almost like kids model kits compared to a real DIY.

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 Post subject: Rough price comparison -- conclusion: totally worth it!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:24 pm 
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I configured a Dell XPS 410 and the EPCN system with the following specs:

E6600
2GB RAM
500GB HD
7900GS
DVDRW
Windows XP Home

No speakers, keyboard, mouse, monitor etc etc.

Dell: $1782
EPCN: $2034

Once you remove the OS on the EPCN system and use one of your existing 100 copies of XP (not an option for Dell of course!) take off $125 from EPCN.

Final:
Dell: $1782
EPCN: $1909

For the $127 difference you get to have friends over and say...

"Do you hear that?...

Hear what?

Exactly."


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:14 am 
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Hello,

Another disadvantage of the Dell, is the hidden partition(s) that hold the restore files -- i.e. Windows; and all the other crap that comes preloaded. The effective usable HD space is probably greater on the EPCN system.

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 Post subject: Re: Rough price comparison -- conclusion: totally worth it!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:29 am 
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Zakharov wrote:
I configured a Dell XPS 410 and the EPCN system with the following specs:

E6600
2GB RAM
500GB HD
7900GS
DVDRW
Windows XP Home

No speakers, keyboard, mouse, monitor etc etc.

Dell: $1782
EPCN: $2034

Once you remove the OS on the EPCN system and use one of your existing 100 copies of XP (not an option for Dell of course!) take off $125 from EPCN.

Final:
Dell: $1782
EPCN: $1909

For the $127 difference you get to have friends over and say...

"Do you hear that?...

Hear what?

Exactly."
You picked expensive components, but what if you were to compare the default 1459$ EPCN rig to 999$ Dell XPS 410 rig.

Same processor, same memory, same gpu, dell has bigger hard drive 250 vs 160, dell comes with windows media center 2005 edition, dell comes with 19" screen and is still 460$ cheaper... EPCN is quieter and 50% more expensive.

P.S: I configured the same rig as you did out of XPS 410. The price was 1474$. Still cheaper, then the default EPCN, even with your choise of components. And 500$ cheaper then a EPCN with equal components.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:24 pm 
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I applaud your success, compliment you on a couple of nice system offerings and wish you well in your endeavours but, for myself, I shall be ever that little bit more wary of your future impartiality.

As what is basically a journalistic endeavour, you have compromised perceptually, if not actually, your impartiality by becoming a vendor to the market in which you do reviews. Peer commentary not withstanding, in any field of endeavour that constitutes a conflict of interest which for a journalistic entity can be the kiss of death.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:35 pm 
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Quote:
As what is basically a journalistic endeavour, you have compromised perceptually, if not actually, your impartiality


You think journalists are impartial? Here in the real world, you think a journalist would ever criticise a product made by one of the newspaper's advertisers? SPCR is more impartial than any conventional news media could ever be.

Quote:
by becoming a vendor to the market in which you do reviews


What other market would he become a vendor in? Upstream oil and gas processing? :roll: Mike's area of expertise is in quiet PC's, it is totally logical for him to assist in developing products for that market, just as he has with the Antec P180 and other Antec cases. We didn't hear such complaints when Mike told us he was helping Antec, even though it was a virtually identical situation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Quote:
You think journalists are impartial? Here in the real world, you think a journalist would ever criticise a product made by one of the newspaper's advertisers?


Many are and an honest one would offer an unbiased opinion. I have seen some journalists even criticise the networks they report for. If they didn't do their job properly then they aren't an honest reviewer - which was exactly the point I was trying to make. As I said, it will perceptually mar the image of impartiality, even if that impartiality is indeed unimpaired.

Quote:
What other market would he become a vendor in? Upstream oil and gas processing? Rolling Eyes Mike's area of expertise is in quiet PC's, it is totally logical for him to assist in developing products for that market, just as he has with the Antec P180 and other Antec cases. We didn't hear such complaints when Mike told us he was helping Antec, even though it was a virtually identical situation.


It actually isn't the same situation. It is one thing to offer opinion and expertise in a consultive capacity for the improvement of a product or service. It is quite another to become a seller of products you review.

I'll give you an example:

As part of my work, I do network consulting. This involves evaluating a clients needs, the available products and recommending solutions. I do this in a product neutral manner as I have no vested interest in which specific products the client ultimately choses to purchase.

Were I to start selling products and have a definite interest in seeing a client buy particular brands or items (ie I earn money from the item, not the consultive expertise) then I could no longer be considered an impartial judge, and would have stopped being a consultant and become a value added reseller, or at best a systems integrator.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:35 pm 
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NyteOwl's and others' comments about SPCR (and my) impartiality in reviews now being suspect are probably unavoidable. Never mind that everyone more-or-less agrees that 99% of other review sites are less impartial. That's not the issue. I agree with NyteOwl that perception is at the heart of public opinion, not reality.

That's OK. A certain portion of any audience is tougher to please, quicker to see collusions behind the scenes. I'd rather be straight up about what I am doing and why.

SPCR has never asked readers to simply accept our assessments blindly (deafly?) and we don't do 5-star ratings. I've always asked readers to consider the evidence for themselves and to choose on the basis of their own needs. Why else would we bother with all the detailed testing and presentation of things like SPL under various loads/conditions, sound recordings under identical conditions for all products, and a systematic, consistent approach to all reviews as much as possible? That's the evidence we ask you to consider with us. We draw our conclusions from that evidence -- you are free to draw your own if you wish.

Do you see this editorial approach changing because I've designed a couple of products for others to sell? As Jaganath has said, this is not the first time. EPCN was also involved in selling SPCR-branded P180 cases. A few dollars came to SPCR for each of those. Did we make thousands? Uh.... no. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The kiss of death? That seems a dire prediction, but we'll see.

If the doomsayers are right, in a few months, SPCR will be nothing but a flogging place for mike-made merchandise to fatten mike's big coffers.

I can't wait to retire off to some warm sandy beach house with all this filthy lucre!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Last edited by MikeC on Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:47 pm 
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Quote:
I can't wait to retire off to some warm sandy beach house with all this filthy lucre!!


We know you're just in it for the corporate junkets to beautiful sunny Vancouver, Washington, and it's glamorous nightlife*!



* - http://photos1.blogger.com/img/193/4432 ... dles21.jpg

(not that it exists anymore.. and damn it was hard to find a picture)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:00 pm 
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nice work, I think people would struggle to find a better option for buying a boxed system. As for all the worries about impartiality, there have been enough examples (the P180 had several criticisms, the CNPS8000 being advertised right now above this box got panned etc), even on MikeC consulted products, of critical reviews for me personally not to be worried. There'll always be conspiracy theorists and people bleating about compromised reviews, but I guess it's the defence of those criticisms and the large well informed community that keeps this site true. And that's even with ignoring the personal morals of the authors of the reviews...

As for product criticisms + views, I thought the idle power was a little high, though the hardware based tuner card in the HTPC doesn't help (estimates put idle/ load use at between 5 and 25W!). Certainly lowering the VCore would help, but I doubt any company would be able to do that and still offer a warranty without adding quite a premium.

Would it be worthwhile having a 7200rpm 2.5in system drive and a 3.5in storage drive (going quickly into standby), to reduce acoustics and power draw?

Would a more efficient cooler be able to reduce the acoustic floor of the HTPC?

How about a PicoPSU option, for the ultimate in low noise + power consumption? It'd obviously add a premium and to some extent limit upgradeability (particularly on the GPU front), but it'd be pretty awesome. It also galls a bit to see even a MikeC designed PC using a PSU rated at >4 the max powerdraw of the PC. Admittedly there aren't a huge no. of options, but still :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm 
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NyteOwl wrote:
It actually isn't the same situation. It is one thing to offer opinion and expertise in a consultive capacity for the improvement of a product or service. It is quite another to become a seller of products you review.


I think both of these situations are applicable here. The bulk of the work that Mike did for EPCN was in a consultive capacity. That consulting led to the choice of components that SPCR reviewed because the reviews had made Mike aware that they were the best components to choose. It should come as a surprise to no one that SPCR branded systems contain all of the components we recommend.

While I can see a certain sense in which SPCR is "selling" the products we review, I don't think that is a very accurate description of what has happened here. SPCR is not selling any products. End PC Noise is selling systems, and SPCR is lending its reputation and weight to give approval to these systems. In return, End PC Noise is paying for the right to use SPCR's name in the form of a royalty. The only thing SPCR is selling is its "brand" of approval, and the only customer we have is End PC Noise.

Now, I realize that, in the process, we also end up having a (very weak) financial stake in a certain portion of products we have reviewed. That financial stake is very indirect, and is not important. Why not? Because SPCR is not selling products, we are selling our reputation. We therefore have a very serious interest in maintaining our reputation. That interest far outweighs any short-term financial benefit we could get from passing our recommendation to an inferior product, because such a recommendation would damage our reputation to the point the it would become unsaleable. We are fully aware that it is in our best interest not to compromise on the quality of our reviews. This is the best assurance I can give that our impartiality will remain uncompromised.

I might also add that SPCR will not be reviewing the EPCN systems. What you read about in this article is all you will hear about it, and this article is clearly identifiable as marketing, not a review. In addition, I think it is highly unlikely that we will in future review any of the parts that make up the EPCN systems. We have already long-since reviewed all of the parts that interest us. The only exception may be the Core 2 Duo, if Mike ever finishes his look at its power characteristics. However, from what I know of it, I'd be hard pressed to call that article a review. It strikes me as being something more akin to investigative journalism than a product review, especially as it will probably include details of AMD's AM2 chips.

I think I will end by biting the hand that feeds me. While I fully appreciate that these EPCN systems are indeed very, very quiet, I must remain a bit skeptical that they are *that* much better than a similar (and much cheaper) system from the likes of Dell, Gateway or Lenovo. I don't think that SPCR has looked seriously enough at any of these (with the exception of a single, ill-fated Gateway) to pass judgement on their noise character. While it is certainly true that these large vendors were once almost universally noisy, it is my impression that this has changed, especially in their midrange and low-end systems. Apple is the only major name whose systems we have looked at, and these have been pretty good overall. Perhaps Mike's experience is wider ranging than my own, but I can't help feeling somewhat in the dark about how "mainstream" system makers have reacted to the silencing "revolution" that has occurred over the past few years.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:34 pm 
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Doh!!

I must have left the monitor in on accident? I reconfigured and you are right, the cost of silence is more than I thought...

mea culpa


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:28 pm 
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Hard not to agree with Devon on all points except the last.

I've had enough exposure over the past half dozen years to know that mainstream systems don't have anything like the smooth low level acoustic signature we're seeking, they ramp up and down with load, and they all have hard mounted HDDs almost randomly selected from a bin depending on what's available (in capacity, price, volume, etc) at the moment from the various suppliers. Many do break 30 dBA/1m at low load, especially the lower spec'd machines, but the same config is used up/down the line, which means the higher spec'd ones are always noisier. None get close to 20 dBA/1m. I'd be surprised to see any at 25 dBA/1m even at idle.

How much quieter are the SPCR-designed systems than the typical similarly configured system from Dell, HP or....? Depends who's listening, where, how, why, etc... but in a quiet environment, it's safe to predict that most SPCR readers would prefer the SPCR boxes.

As usual, the value of this difference is always up to each user/buyer to judge. And if you believe you can easily build one just like EPCN can, then the value is not that high, is it? But what if you can't?

Quite simply, those SPCR-designed systems are not for most readers of this forum. You are the DIYers, largely. You represent a slice of that <1% of the total PC market. You have a different perspective than the rest of the PC buyers... but remember that just because they can't or won't build a quiet PC by/for themselves does not mean they don't want or can't appreciate such quiet PCs.

Finally, one thing Devon said bears repeating: My article about the SPCR designed systems is not a review. It's a presentation of a commercial concept, a statement of goals, and an honest assessment of what I believe was achieved. I could have asked one of the other staff writers to write it up, and in fact, Nick did some initial data collection on at least one, all the Vancouver editorial team did hear these PCs in one guise or another. But I chose to write the piece because it's not a "review" in the formal sense. I did not want to put any of the editorial team in the position of having to defend the piece as if it was a review.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:14 pm 
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Devonavar wrote:
I might also add that SPCR will not be reviewing the EPCN systems.

I wonder if SPCR might accept a review from community members who actually purchase one of these systems and write up something resembling an intelligent. in-depth analysis?

Except . . . most of us already have something identical or nearly identical to anything EPCN might ever offer. We're all probably using one or more of the critical components that make up a truly quiet system.

Maybe no reviews are really necessary. You can find a wealth of reviews on systems just like the ones available on EPCN right here on the forums, and you can find tons of reviews covering just about every possible combination of variations on the EPCN systems. SPCR has to be the home of the most thoughtful, creative builders anywhere.

Want to know what that Model 1 would be like with a different component, or some other arrangement? Just search for it here on the forums. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:22 am 
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Well first of all I'd like to point out, that I'm in semi-pissed mood right now, because Firefox crashed just before I was almost done with my pretty long post... So I will write a cruder and shorter version of it with... :evil:

From the article:
"This is the backdrop against which the project I am now writing about came to fruition. The idea is simple:

1. Take the best, most proven quiet computing concepts and techniques,
2. Apply them to the best quiet components available, and
3. Partner with a commercial system integrator who will build the system to my design, down to the last detail...

... for the benefit of those who wish to enjoy silent computing without building a PC for themselves. "

If silent computing evangelism was your first priority, these SPCR approved models would be available to everyone, for free. What I'm saying is that the research was already done and you had recieved a small compensation for your work from ads.

I assembled a clone of the EPCN default 1459$ model1 in Finland's biggest e-tailers web page. They had all the same components available except with minor changes, such as picking p150 instead of solo, using asus graphics instead XFX and using 250gb hard drive, because they didn't have the 160gb drives. With the computer fully assembled and windows installed, the price was 1065 euros, which translated roughly to 1415$, with our price including 22% VAT (over 300$). Now this computer wouldn't be that much different to EPCN. Maybe the build quality wouldn't up to their standards. I wouldn't know, since I haven't seen what kind of cable management EPCN has. But cable clutter shouldn't be such a big issue with modular psu. The price would still be way more competitive then the EPCN model, which isn't even available to me. Maybe the computer wouldn't survive the shipping (ninja).

If they were able to stick "SPCR Approved" label to the computer for free, I'm sure they would include it in their pre-build computers. Especially after couple of requests from SPCR readers. They would do all the promotion for "SPCR approved" label. It's not like your name isn't already used with components. If a component recieves good reviews from you, it's usually mentioned. Also when P180B was only avaible as a SPCR edition, you were recieving free marketing and promotion from the e-tailers, but this is a different case (no pun intended), because you were directly compensated for the use of your brand.

EPCN 1459$ computer has a hard time competing to with a 999$ Dell, when both of them claim to be quiet. I wouldn't be suprised, if it were typed bigger in Dell's packaging... The regular consumer has really no way of knowing which one is more quiet. They would most likely pick out the one that is over 500$ cheaper. Dell isn't as big here in as it is there in the North-America. The 1065e replica, would be only 150 euros more expensive then a Dell (which isn't even sold by our biggest e-tailer).

1065 euros would also be a cheaper then some of the alternatives. My friend works for a small IT-company and he is in charge of all the computer purchases, building up the intranet and stuff like that. He recently ordered HP XW4400 workstations to their company. It basically has similar components (E6300, 1gig, 160gb), but it has Ati V3300 Fire GL graphics, which are priced ~175 euros. The HP is priced around ~1200 euros here. Now my friend also purchased one of those for himself and he claims that it is really quiet (although I'm sceptical about it and told him, I wouldn't believe him unless I saw it myself). Now the "free Model 1" could be a viable alternative to the HP, although the HP has some really important selling points, that have a much higher priority to companies then silence, such as 3 year on-site warranty...

Sure, giving up your name for free and the spread of SPCR brand through e-tailers might not be directly as lucrative business as selling your name to selected few. But it would give the model 1 (and other supposed SPCR approved models) a world wide availability. The e-tailers would directly promote the SPCR brand by marketing these products with your name attached to it. It could result in "SPCR approved" becoming a desktop standard similar to Centrino in laptops... which could indirectly increase your ad profits.

Atm there are no decently priced, readily available and truly silent PCs available here. If a friend asks what computer he should buy, I always recommend iMacs. Especially to my student friends, because of the Apples educations discounts, the 20" iMac is "only" 1400 euros, which is a bargain compared to alternatives.

(Sidenote luckily I started to write this with notepad, fooking firefox crashed again. I guess it doesn't like my kind of usage, around 100 pages open :roll:)

P.S: I don't mind your current approach either. I think you deserve every dollar you get through your partnership with EPCN.

P.P.S: I just realized I forgot Acoustipack from my calculations. Installed, it would probably add roughly 100 euros to the 1065 euros.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:38 pm 
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Quote:
Sidenote luckily I started to write this with notepad, fooking firefox crashed again. I guess it doesn't like my kind of usage, around 100 pages open


Considering the way Firefox can leak memory, espcially on Windows systems, I'm surprised you managed that many before it crashed :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:57 pm 
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Evil Gnomes wrote:
slightly off topic, but does anyone know where to get the 5.25" vent used on the model 11?


Count me in here too... I would definitely pay $10-20 to get an aesthetically integrated and well-designed PSU duct for the Solo/P150 rather than having to DIY it with construction paper, foamboard, what have you myself. Mike, any chances of selling a kit or posting the diagram? Congrats on your new venture and good luck with it-- SPCR has and always will be a great resource.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:58 pm 
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And to bring up a question asked earlier (but not answered from what I can see), would it be possible to fit the well-regarded (by SPCR) Corsair PS into the Model 11, and would that necessitate a rework of the ducting solution?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Balthazar_B wrote:
And to bring up a question asked earlier (but not answered from what I can see), would it be possible to fit the well-regarded (by SPCR) Corsair PS into the Model 11, and would that necessitate a rework of the ducting solution?

Model One, you mean? The Solo-based one? No, if you want the duct, a straight-through airflow PSU is needed. All 120mm fan PSUs have a 90 deg turn airflow path, sucking in from the bottom or the CPU area. This is not great from PSU thermals (and fan noise).

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:32 pm 
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hi....Um, ...Ah, hem....

I think.... I'm probably...No, I'm sure that I am a non-DIY'r who would jump at buying a silent pc, pre-packaged.

Where were you 6 months ago, Mike? But then, the pain and sadness of experience - see Consumer Advocacy - is unfortunately a teacher, also. Even though it is too late, thank you, Mike (SPCR) for helping those of us who are intimidated by fire icons in Speed Fan with no way other than closing the program to fix a problem, those of us who throw up our arms in exasperation when confronted by a plethera of conflicting choices, those of us who would really rather do other things than learn how to solder voltage regulator connections.

The experience of wandering the maze of SPCR and silent computing is enlightening - I am aware that silence is achievable, and a relatively inexpensive process. I've also learned a great deal (to me) about efficiency, conservation, and what to look for in a decent computer. I believe this to be one of the goals of SPCR. A couple days ago I was looking for quiet fans at a non-silence motivated shop and in my nosey fashion told a custom-build customer (with salesman present) that power draw meant heat, and subsequently noisier equipment, if not controlled. All Intel CPU's ultimately ran hotter than AMD. This comment was based purely on an oblique remark by Mike Chin. I found substantiating evidence, tonite. The salesman had vehemently disagreed. At least, for what good it won't do, the selected Antec case has the SPCR design imprint.

Two consumer oriented silent systems were designed based on the knowledge (hard work and effort) from research. They are benchmarks, in my thinking. I'm very tempted.....

Anyone want to silence a $1200 growling beast that has sat on a desk - 18" from my right ear - since July? I really don't want to tear it apart, start over and copy the EPCN desktop system for an additional $800.

Bruce
(Intel D-940? (stock), Asus P5LD2 (stock), XFX GeForce 7300 GS (stock), WD Raptor, Seagate X 2 storage, 1GB Kingston (stock), Noise (modified stock +), Antec P-150 refer white (stock), loose screws tightened)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:59 am 
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Aris wrote:
is a 50% markup on price really worth it for a custom air vent for the PSU, and to have someone else put it together for you?

I spec'd out the system described in the article, then priced out the parts at newegg, and elsewhere for the few parts Newegg did not carry. The price premium for the EndPCNoise system was on the order of $350. That seems to me like a reasonable sum to have a complete PC delivered to my doorstep.

For $350 I'm inclined to do it myself, since I have built machines before and somewhat ENJOY (in a perverse sort of way) doing it, but I don't think anyone should feel like they are getting ripped off if they buy a pre-assembled system.

If anyone can direct me to a cheaper place to buy all the pieces and parts, I'm all ears.

Edit: I think I goofed up when I assembled the components on newegg, including a SECOND Core 2 Due cpu in the total, a not inconsequential $217. That makes the price premium closer to $600, and a LOT harder to justify. If it weren't so late I would go back and double check everything, but that will have to wait for another day.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:27 am 
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Quote:
Anyone want to silence a $1200 growling beast that has sat on a desk - 18" from my right ear - since July? I really don't want to tear it apart, start over and copy the EPCN desktop system for an additional $800.

Bruce
(Intel D-940? (stock), Asus P5LD2 (stock), XFX GeForce 7300 GS (stock), WD Raptor, Seagate X 2 storage, 1GB Kingston (stock), Noise (modified stock +), Antec P-150 refer white (stock), loose screws tightened)


Your main problem there is the Pentium D CPU; that is one hot processor! So to quiet that you will need a jumbo heatsink like the Scythe Ninja or Thermalright Ultra-120. All the other bits can be silenced for minimal $ outlay.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:32 am 
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"<<Your main problem there is the Pentium D CPU; that is one hot processor! So to quiet that you will need a jumbo heatsink like the Scythe Ninja or Thermalright Ultra-120. All the other bits can be silenced for minimal $ outlay.>>"

Your recommendation is helpful. Fixing my current fiasco needs to be a subject under another forum.

My reference to fixing an existing system was intended to reinforce the trepidation many of us non-DIY'rs have to pushing more than a stick of memory into the guts of that box we call a computer. I have maintained cars with simple repairs and replacements but rarely trusted any of my work more involved than changing tires.

Bruce


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:13 am 
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Mike, I'm curious about the heatsink mounting on the Model 11. The PC is using a Zalman 7000AlCu, but this heatsink does not come with an adapter to attach to socket AM2. Based on the photo, it looks like maybe a customized aluminum bracket was made to mount that heatsink on the AM2 mounting holes.

Is this custom or is there somewhere I can buy that? I love Zalman heatsinks, but none of the 7000 or 7700 series are compatible with Socket AM2.

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