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 Post subject: Thermaltake Proves Themselves a Contender: The Big Typhoon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:47 am 
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Thermaltake Proves Themselves a Contender: The Big Typhoon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:29 pm 
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That bit about the fan stock speed being 1300 rpm is definitely interesting and provides another indicator about it being related to the Nexus fans--the Yate Loon D12SL-12 is pretty much a Nexus with a higher stock RPM of 1300.

And look what XPC Gear carries: http://www.xpcgear.com/d12sl12o.html

Edit: Oh yeah....nice review :) Looks like it could be a useful cooler depending on case layout especially with getting some additional cooling for the motherboard components.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:39 pm 
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TT might have had a serious low-airflow contender had the fins not been so close together or for that matter so deep.

Out of curiosity I have looked into that "Hong-Sheng" fan. Apart from it not being on their website, I got a few hits which mention the fans, and they usually turn up branded TT.

Just search for "Hong Sheng" to find the relevant posts.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=34768
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=924392&page=2
http://prohardver.hu/p.php?mod=21&id=665

Identical fan in a different colour, even with the same name here "A1225L12S".
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=101475

Same HS/fan as noted by "justblair" and same mould too ;)
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=33326

I cant find any direct link between "Hong Sheng" and either "Yate Loon" or "Nexus", only people noticing that some fans are identical. The interesting one is the transparent version, that is otherwise identical.

The only thing I can think of that links these companies together is what seperates them. "Yate Loon" is an electronics company, and "Hong Sheng" is a plastics company. Maybe "Yate Loon" and "Hong Sheng" are co-operating and "hong Sheng make the fans and "Yate Loon" make the motors, and this has evoulved into a cross-licensing deal that benefits both companies. This is possible but not very likely, a cross-licensing deal for both companies is quite likely though as this happens all of the time with OEM's, you only have to look at the growing list of SeaSonic re-branded PSU's.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:11 pm 
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andyb, did you see the link I posted--XPC actually has an Orange & Black Yate Loon--which I've never seen before--they actually had solid black and solid orange just a couple weeks ago even. That's an interesting possibility you mentioned too--one motor, one plastics, cross-licensing going on. Or even just another DBA name could be a possibility.

From Hong-Sheng's site, they are a "Taiwan funded" company...but on mainland China I believe. Yate Loon seems to be a Taiwanese company with factories on the mainland also. Maybe there is an obscure connection related the politics at play there.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:22 pm 
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Greetings,

The fans are not identical; but they are very similar:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=317533&highlight=#317533

Back on topic: it will be interesting to compare the Big Typhoon with the SI-120 (6 heatpipes vs 5?) and similar layouts and size. It may come down to the qualities of the mounting brackets and the contact surface?

I wonder if the one side of the BT was level and parallel with the other, that the air flow through it might not have improved it's performance just a tad? (See the 2nd and 3rd photos on page 2)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:23 pm 
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Considering how old a cooler Big Typhoon is, it's really a shame for ThermalTake it took so long for it to be reviewed here at SPCR. It probably would have done miracles for TTs reputation, had it been reviewed here back in 2005 when it was released. Not to mention, it would have been a real contender at that time, when there were no Ninja's around and only XP-120 would have equaled it's performance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:26 pm 
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despite SPCR's stamp of approval, personally, i will continue to stay miles away from anything with the TT on it. it'll probably take some time for them to dig themselves out of the hole they've made with their unscrupulous marketing.... [cough] silent 939 [cough]

this is just one shovel of dirt towards that goal....

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Last edited by mr. poopyhead on Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:54 pm 
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Another good review - cheers, SPCR team!

Speaking of that kind of 'horizontal-semi-tower' coolers, one would like to read a review on Scythe Andy Samurai Master.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:16 am 
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I have experience of the TTBT on a naked 3000+ at 2500Mhz. In my eyes, the stock fan was too noisy and I replaced it with a GlobalWin NCB, which was mush less audible. Temps were about the same as my Ninja with a 3700+ at 2700Mhz.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:54 am 
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Quote:
From Hong-Sheng's site, they are a "Taiwan funded" company...but on mainland China I believe. Yate Loon seems to be a Taiwanese company with factories on the mainland also. Maybe there is an obscure connection related the politics at play there.


I remember reading somewhere that Hong Shengs and Yate Loon are made in the same factory, can't remember where I read that now.

Quote:
Considering how old a cooler Big Typhoon is, it's really a shame for ThermalTake it took so long for it to be reviewed here at SPCR. It probably would have done miracles for TTs reputation


I don't know about that. In fact the Big Typhoon is pretty much the only Thermaltake product that I have heard mentioned in the same sentence as "quiet"; we shouldn't extrapolate the excellence of the BT out to the rest of TT's products, they have a reputation for making noisy products and usually that reputation is well-deserved. (for example see the Thermaltake Mozart case that someone is struggling to make quiet in the System Advice forum)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:02 am 
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jaganath wrote:
I don't know about that. In fact the Big Typhoon is pretty much the only Thermaltake product that I have heard mentioned in the same sentence as "quiet"; we shouldn't extrapolate the excellence of the BT out to the rest of TT's products, they have a reputation for making noisy products and usually that reputation is well-deserved.


mmm, i beg to differ. how about thermaltake schooner? my personal experience with that cooler on a 7600gt is just positive - cooling was ok and it was noiseless. it's also cheap and widely available. it's biggest drawback was complicated installation. apart from that it was perfect.

hehe, that makes, like, 2 (read: two) decent products ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:23 am 
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OK, so 2 out of however many product lines (500? 1000?); it's not the same as Seasonic or Nexus, where virtually everything they make is silent.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:36 am 
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I had a black and orange loon. Haven't found another though. I looked for them like crazy because that fan was super quiet. Much quieter than the pure black loons I have now. Maybe it wasn't a Loon... But I remmeber saying Loon on it... I thnk.

Nice review but NO thanks on Thermaljunk.

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Last edited by MC FLMJIG on Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:12 am 
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jaganath wrote:
I don't know about that. In fact the Big Typhoon is pretty much the only Thermaltake product that I have heard mentioned in the same sentence as "quiet"; we shouldn't extrapolate the excellence of the BT out to the rest of TT's products, they have a reputation for making noisy products and usually that reputation is well-deserved. (for example see the Thermaltake Mozart case that someone is struggling to make quiet in the System Advice forum)
But the thing is that TT isn't targeting just silencers, so you can't (well you can) expect all of their products to be silent. Usually, if someone mentions TT on the forums he gets gunned down. It might be because of the bogus marketing claims, that TT is the second most hated brand here, after SilenX of course...

I have never owned any TT products. But I know enough, not to belive TTs marketing claims and not be bothered about their lies. But I also like to keep my mind open...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:10 pm 
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I'd have to disagree with your assessment of the Schooner. We canned a review of it because of complex installation... and the fact that the bolts it shipped with wouldn't fit through our usual test card. Quiet it may be, but only because it's fanless. There are other, better, easier to install fanless VGA coolers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:45 pm 
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An easier method to mount the TTBT:

Image
Image

:)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:59 pm 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
Greetings,
Back on topic: it will be interesting to compare the Big Typhoon with the SI-120 (6 heatpipes vs 5?) and similar layouts and size. It may come down to the qualities of the mounting brackets and the contact surface?


I thought Termalright hand phased out the SI-120 in favor of the SI-128? At any rate, I'd sure like to see this, because so far I haven't seen SPCR review any of Thermalright's "SI" line. (SI-97, SI-120, SI-128) Or have I missed something?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:09 pm 
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Erssa wrote:
I have never owned any TT products. But I know enough, not to belive TTs marketing claims and not be bothered about their lies. But I also like to keep my mind open...

I like open minds. I'm sitting here typing on a computer that has a TT label-engineered "250mm" fan as its main cooling fan. TT is not the originator of labelling a 220mm fan as 250; that's an historic industry mistake we'll all be stuck with forever. TT's published data on their fan, which I bought mounted in a Kandalf side panel, is 600RPM, 67.69CFM, and 15dBA. So what CFM meter reads to four decimal places? None; that's 115 cubic meters per hour mathematically transformed into CFM, and TT undoubtedly got the 115 number (and the "250", and the 600) from the manufacturer. And I have reason to believe that they got the 15dBA number from the manufacturer, too:

PerformancePCs sells an 850RPM version of the same fan. It's rated at 19dBA! The noise difference between 820RPM and 600RPM is 8.14dBA, but if you're bumping up against the measurement facility noise floor, you'll measure less - as we apparently have here. I don't know how the manufacturer measured the noise, but I'm pretty sure that in this case, TT is merely passing along the maker's data.

For the record, I measured (using strobe techniques) 277RPM on this fan at 4.64V, and I'm running it at 4.44V, so my actual RPM is ~266. That's 21.2dBA below whatever the noise level is at 600RPM. And I have to put my ear within 6 inches of the fan before I can hear anything at 3AM.

In other instances, TT may be reporting the fan dBA at the lowest RPM, which is in fact the case where they report both max and min RPM (for thermally controlled fans, for instance). Which is misleading, but not an outright lie.

My TT fan cools my case just fine and it is very quiet!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:11 am 
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I bought the TT Big Typhoon after lots of praise from Xtreme Systems and it had a reputation of being one of the quietest fan cooled systems available.

I agree that it's been one of the most painful heatsinks to install. I also do not like how the backplate is not easily removable when using the adhesive pad which glues to the motherboard, as per instructions.

I have the same distrust of Thermaltake specifications. One example is their older Silent Boost line. The earlier models included an 80mm Panaflo "M" fan, which is rated 27dBa versus the 21dBa that Thermaltake specified.

I have been happy with my Big Typhoon and while TT products are a hit and miss, this is a very formidable contender. The good thing about TT is that while we enthusiasts know where to get even the hardest to find heatsinks, TT products are readily available almost everywhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:33 pm 
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TT doesnt get bashed because they make crappy or loud products (even though they do), they get bashed because they dont make original products. They take good idea's from every other good company out there, put a slight twist on it (sometimes VERY slight) and put a TT badge on it.

So reguardless of how well a TT product is, i will still never buy one. Chances are its just a rip off of another good product just like it. So if i want it, i'll go buy the original from the company they stole the idea from.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:41 pm 
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Erssa wrote:
Considering how old a cooler Big Typhoon is, it's really a shame for ThermalTake it took so long for it to be reviewed here at SPCR. It probably would have done miracles for TTs reputation, had it been reviewed here back in 2005 when it was released. Not to mention, it would have been a real contender at that time, when there were no Ninja's around and only XP-120 would have equaled it's performance.

i haven't even read the review, but this is exactly what came to my mind when i arrived at SPCR's front page

prejudice got the better of them


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:43 pm 
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Wow, I managed to build a completely silent PC without using a single Thermaltake component. What a miracle, eh? But what do I know, I'm just prejudiced.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:30 am 
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<sigh>

Quote:
...and we are pleased to note that the Big Typhoon doesn't deserve it.


Surely a prejudiced writer (that would be me) would not be complimenting the product in question in the headline for the review.

Personally, I'm not really interested in Thermaltake's reputation; I can only speak for the products I've personally seen. However, their reputation is so exceptionally bad (they get trashed on these forums all the time) that it needs to be acknowledged.

I have no interest in perpetuating reputations — good or bad — but I realize that this will happen inevitably to some extent for every review we publish. I've accepted that. All I can hope is that the reputations that come out of our reviews reflect the quality of the products we have seen. And I don't see how publishing a generally positive review of a Thermaltake product comes across as Thermaltake bashing. This review was meant to muddy the waters by pointing out that, whatever their other flaws, they do produce at least one quiet product. What gives guys?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:49 am 
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Devonavar wrote:
<sigh>

Quote:
...and we are pleased to note that the Big Typhoon doesn't deserve it.


Surely a prejudiced writer (that would be me) would not be complimenting the product in question in the headline for the review.

Personally, I'm not really interested in Thermaltake's reputation; I can only speak for the products I've personally seen. However, their reputation is so exceptionally bad (they get trashed on these forums all the time) that it needs to be acknowledged.

I have no interest in perpetuating reputations — good or bad — but I realize that this will happen inevitably to some extent for every review we publish. I've accepted that. All I can hope is that the reputations that come out of our reviews reflect the quality of the products we have seen. And I don't see how publishing a generally positive review of a Thermaltake product comes across as Thermaltake bashing. This review was meant to muddy the waters by pointing out that, whatever their other flaws, they do produce at least one quiet product. What gives guys?
I merely pointed out, that had BT been reviewed in 2005, it would have probably affected the TT-bashing mob mentality on the forums. At least people could have pointed out, that they have one decent product, so why not give TT a benefit of a doubt. I'm pretty sure that, if someone new to these forums had claimed in the forums, that BT is quiet, he would have been gunned down by the mob.

Felger Carbon wrote:
I'm sitting here typing on a computer that has a TT label-engineered "250mm" fan as its main cooling fan.

...

My TT fan cools my case just fine and it is very quiet!

Just imagine, if this had been said by someone other then Felger Carbon, by someone with a post count of 1.

At the time I became interested in silent PCs, I hang out alot at xtremesystems forums and I too remember seeing frequent recommendations of BT, and I have to admit that the reputation TT had, effected me to the point, that I didn't even take it into consideration, when I was trying to decide wich heatsink to buy. Given the poor availability of heatsinks here at the time (and the fact that TR heatsinks are outrageously priced in Finland), that left me with only one option, or actually optionless, so I bought the Zalman 7000alcu (It has served me well). Maybe I'm just a bit dissapointed in myself, that I let the common sentiment affect my own judgement so much...

When I said it was a shame for TT it took so long for it to be reviewed it was meant merely as an emotionless (hindsighted) notion, not a critique towards the SPCR staff or the review, which was excellent as always.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:52 am 
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I wish sprc would have tested the bit typhoon earlier, I bought one based on this test -> http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.ph ... 462&page=4
Scroll down to the bottom to see a comparison.

It did a fine job with my athlon64 but since I now have a core2duo it seems to not cope that well :? :( Running fans at low it gets up to 65c and that's at 2.7 Ghz and default voltage. With cpu fan at full it's only 6c cooler. But I'm wondering if I didn't mount it properly? Think I'll go try zoob's methon of mounting it, thanks alot :D Can't believe they didn't think of mounting it that way in the first place :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:31 am 
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Erssa wrote:
Considering how old a cooler Big Typhoon is, it's really a shame for ThermalTake it took so long for it to be reviewed here at SPCR. It probably would have done miracles for TTs reputation, had it been reviewed here back in 2005 when it was released. Not to mention, it would have been a real contender at that time, when there were no Ninja's around and only XP-120 would have equaled it's performance.


SPCR reviews what the manufacturers send us, in as timely a manner as we can. For those with short memories, we reviewed the Thermaltake Silent Tower back in late 2004. It din't get a rave review, but it's performance was perfectly acceptable. It got dissed for it's crappy mounting design and noisey fan. AFAIK, that was the last TT heatsink that we received for quite a while.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:56 am 
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I'd like to recommend a future update to this review with measurements of the VX, Model CL-P0310.

The reviewed Model CL-P0114 is what I see in the stores around me in Atlanta, GA but since the difficult mounting system has been described in reviews for the past year or so, I would turn to mail-order to get a VX.

I am considering this model because I believe airflow across the motherboard helps overall cooling.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:18 am 
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zoob's way of mounting is definitely easier than the default way. Remounting the cooler did improve performance about 4c. And if one screws down the nuts so the bolt gets just up the top of the it's easy to tighten them all the same amount :D


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:43 pm 
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Ralf Hutter wrote:
Erssa wrote:
Considering how old a cooler Big Typhoon is, it's really a shame for ThermalTake it took so long for it to be reviewed here at SPCR. It probably would have done miracles for TTs reputation, had it been reviewed here back in 2005 when it was released. Not to mention, it would have been a real contender at that time, when there were no Ninja's around and only XP-120 would have equaled it's performance.


SPCR reviews what the manufacturers send us, in as timely a manner as we can. For those with short memories, we reviewed the Thermaltake Silent Tower back in late 2004. It din't get a rave review, but it's performance was perfectly acceptable. It got dissed for it's crappy mounting design and noisey fan. AFAIK, that was the last TT heatsink that we received for quite a while.


I dont think Ralf is complaining about SPCR, rather that Thermaltake have done a very bad job of promoting a HSF which USED to be one of the best, but has since been surpassed by the likes of the Tuniq Tower, Ultra-120, and Ninja rev. B. Speaking of which, i havent seen a Tuniq Tower review yet........ strange as it is one of THE best HSFs areound atm! I guess Tuniq are also a little slow on getting samples to the places where enthusiasts go for the best info!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:10 pm 
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Aris wrote:
TT doesnt get bashed because they make crappy or loud products (even though they do), they get bashed because they dont make original products. They take good idea's from every other good company out there, put a slight twist on it (sometimes VERY slight) and put a TT badge on it.

So reguardless of how well a TT product is, i will still never buy one. Chances are its just a rip off of another good product just like it. So if i want it, i'll go buy the original from the company they stole the idea from.
I remember when I stopped buying TT products, it was after the disappointment that was the "Silent Tower" (years ago, before I found SPCR). But aside from that, I share your thoughts on their products. My view is I would rather give the money to the company that originally designed the product and not TT.

Speaking of which, shouldn't we be seeing a Ninja clone from them soon? :wink:


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