Built! Antec NSK3300, E6400, 7600GT, WDAAKSx2, 2x2g 6400

[boze]

First build ever and I thought I'd leave my experiences here in case it was any use to anyone.

I'd like to give a special shout-out to AngelKiller who pretty much hand-picked everything in this shopping list for me and had lots of good advice.

Case Antec NSK3300
Case Fan just the 120mm TriCool it comes with
PSU included Antec SFX 300w
Motherboard ASUS P5B-VM
CPU Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (2.13GHz)
CPU HSF Thermalright HR01 775 (does not fit!)
RAM G.Skill (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 667 SDRAM
Video Card GIGABYTE 7600GT
HDD WD500AAKS (two of them)
DVD Burner Samsung SH-S182M 18x

Assembly:
With the exception of the Thermalright HR01, which was too big to fit in the NSK 3300 case, the assembly went very smooth for a first-timer I think. In particular the Asus P5B-VM mobo's user guide was practically a step-by-step for anything and everything that got screwed in or plugged in. I ended up using the stock HSF that came with my c2d E6400, so I'll be interested in finding another passive HSF solution at which point I'll have to learn how to clean off the thermal paste that came on the stock HSF as well.

Two notes on assembly: AK was kind to warn me, it's easiest to install the upper HDD and optical drive before installing the mobo or anything else. Also, the mobo power cable coming from the built-in PSU is annoyingly short on this case, making the cabling seem less comfortable because it has to go straight to it's plug on the mobo - this could be an issue with installing a passive HSF even if i could find one that fit to start with.

Windows Installation:
Right now I'm just using XP Pro and I'll probably be installing MCE and waiting a while for Vista to get it's act together.

I wasn't getting any video initially so I removed the Gigabyte card and only then noticed that my Dell LCD has a button to cycle through it's inputs. So I chose VGA and used that to get the XP Pro on there and installed the 7600GT once I was safely running Windows.

I experienced several "Intel CPU uCode Loading error" messages during startup. I updated the bios from 0307 to 0405 and it still wasn't fixed. Updating to the newest beta version of the bios eliminated that error. Initially it replaced it with a "CMOS Checksum Bad - Overclocking failed! Please enter setup to reconfigure your system" error. But after googling about that it seems like something that sometimes only happens on the first restart after a bios update. Sure enough it went away on it's own. Good thing too because I don't even know how to overclock and didn't see anything relevant to adjust in Setup either.

Notes:
1) I hadn't realized that with a 32bit OS I won't be able to use all 4gig of ram that I installed so hopefully I'll be able to take advantage of that with Vista in the next year or so.

2) I guess I have to attribute this to the BIOS updates because nothing else changed, but idle CPU temps were drastically reduced with each of the two updates.
0307 -> 50.5°
0405 -> 39°
6066(beta) -> 26°
Or maybe this had something to do with the thermal paste on the heatsink warming up and creating a better contact surface? I really have no idea, but it seems cool as a cucumber now. I have the little utility open and it's ready 24° as I type this. ... is 39° normal for mobo temp??

3) I'm still in the market for a passive HSF to replace the stock one but I think 120mm wide is going to be pushing it.

4) If it would get things a little quieter I'd like to replace the 120mm Tri-cool case fan and I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Finally, thanks to the folks here for your input. You made this whole process a lot of fun and I'm very happy with my new box!

[Erssa]

With the exception of the Thermalright HR01, which was too big to fit in the NSK 3300 case

How exactly was it too big? Was it too tall?

[boze]

height-wise it may have just fit, but no the problem was it's width. with the bunch of cables sneaking out right above it there was no way to get it up toward the ceiling of the case so that the mounting thingies lined up.

it needs to be oriented so that the broad 120mm square surface points right at the 120mm case fan but it mounts about a half inch too high on the mobo.

maybe if none of the cords needed to come down out of the top compartment right above it - maybe then it could have fit right up against the ceiling of the case.. but it's safe to say that it's just too wide for the NSK3300.

[eitheta]

2) I guess I have to attribute this to the BIOS updates because nothing else changed, but idle CPU temps were drastically reduced with each of the two updates.
0307 -> 50.5°
0405 -> 39°
6066(beta) -> 26°
Or maybe this had something to do with the thermal paste on the heatsink warming up and creating a better contact surface? I really have no idea, but it seems cool as a cucumber now. I have the little utility open and it's ready 24° as I type this. ... is 39° normal for mobo temp??

Ah. I'm happy to know that you got these results. I spent a bunch of this week going round and round wondering why the new box I was building idled so much hotter than the last two I built, all with E6x00 on P5B-VM. Eventually caught on that the first two were bios 0207, and the third had 0307. I've gotten temps very similar to what you report, from 0307 & 0405. I haven't tried the 606 beta, but 0207 gave temps similar to or perhaps a little lower than 0405.

I experienced several "Intel CPU uCode Loading error" messages during startup. I updated the bios from 0307 to 0405 and it still wasn't fixed. Updating to the newest beta version of the bios eliminated that error.

Odd. I didn't get this problem. I did of course get the "CMOS Checksum Bad - Overclocking failed" message at first POST after reflashing the BIOS.

And about those (huge!) temperature differences from one BIOS version to another... I can't decide whether the temperatures are really changed, or whether it's just that the measurement has been recalibrated. And I can't decide which truth I would find more disturbing. It's not just the temperature numbers reported inside bios setup that change. Numbers from ASUS PCProbeII, and Speedfan 4.31 or 4.32beta also change, by about the same delta-T, from one BIOS version to the next. And my understanding was that Speedfan read directly from the WinBond W83627DHG chip, so it's not clear how the BIOS would be intercepting that reading, unless maybe the bios preloads a lookup table in the WinBond, at POST? The sys/mobo & Core0/1 also changed, by about the same delta-T. HDD temps seemed to change also, but maybe not so much. But I didn't discern (by touching my scientifically-calibrated fingertip to the HSF base) any real CPU temp difference, from one BIOS to the next. And since ASUS make it difficult-to-impossible to revert to an older BIOS, it's hard to do careful 1-vs-2-vs-1 comparisons.

Anyway, the moral of the story is that anyone building on a P5B-VM should check which BIOS version they're on, before worrying about temperatures.

And regarding the conflict of cables vs. HR01...

I'm still in the market for a passive HSF to replace the stock one but I think 120mm wide is going to be pushing it.

Take a look at the Akasa Evo-120. It might be just the trick for you. In the NSK1300 (w/ powerbrick & 200W DC/DC) I just built, the Evo-120 fit very nicely -- its fins sit about 8-9mm from my exhaust fan, and within 10mm of being perfectly aligned side-to-side. With this spacing/alignment, I didn't need any ducting, and there's just enough airflow escaping around the Evo120's fins to provide some breeze for the mobo. Your mileage may vary. MikeC points to a review at FrostyTech.com. The only source I could find for Evo120 here in USA was SidewinderComputers.com. I ditched their 'amber series' fan, and the aluminum shroud that held it on. My Nexus case exhaust fan is the only fan in this box.

Cheers!

[Erssa]

And about those (huge!) temperature differences from one BIOS version to another... I can't decide whether the temperatures are really changed, or whether it's just that the measurement has been recalibrated. And I can't decide which truth I would find more disturbing.

I don't think the temperatures have changed. I had almost identical experience with my Asus A8N-VM CSM, when I bought it over a year ago. Couple of BIOS updates later and my CPU temps had dropped by over 10 celsius. It was pretty hard to believe, that my cpu was idling at 44 celsius with cool and quiet, when the heatsink felt cool to touch...

[angelkiller]

Congratulations!!

I'm terribly sorry about the HR-01. I knew it was gonna be real close. Sorry bout that. I also forgot the 32-bit OS with 4Gigs of memory issue. I wish we could trade, I've got Win XP x64 (with 1GB of RAM) and I hate it! Finding 64bit drivers is a pain!! And then half of my programs won't run because the OS reports itself as Server 2003! (what I would give to have a 32bit OS....)

Anyways, when you look for a passive HSF, note that my Freezer 64 is 104mm and barely fits. And yea, after I chucked my four Seagates, I can now hear how loud the Tri-Cools are. They arn't really loud, but fans can be quieter. Most people here would recommend a Nexus or Yate Loon. (Both can be found at Jab-Tech) I haven't used either fan, but I have used Scythe S-Flex (The 800rpm one) and it's really quiet. But I had to revert back to the Tri-Cools because my Pentium D 945 (3.4GHz) would get close to 80C under load!

Well, I'm glad everything works (except for the HR-05 ). I'll keep looking for a passive HSF for you. (Cuz I'm the one who suggested the HR-05).

[boze]

hey thanks for the input, folks!

eitheta, that Akasa EVO 120 does look like a good choice - the way it reaches out towards the rear case fan like that would be a perfect way to get the fins away from the all the cables that come down right above the cpu! i wonder if there's some easy way to tell if it'll line up right and not hit the ceiling of the case.

about that:
the HR01 measures 110x60x159.5
the Akasa Evo meausures 122x160x114.5

so there's my thing.. i see how the 160 width comes from how it reaches way towards the case fan. the problem is it's actually 12mm wider once it gets there. and since the HR01 was already pushing up against the cables and maybe even the ceiling of the case.. i think angelkiller had said that his HSF was 95mm "long" and just barely fit. i wonder if the cpu socket on my mobo is just too close to the top of the case for that, ya know?

oh and if i do decide to order it: does it not come with the pushpins that the Thermalright and stock Intel HSF had? they're not in the pic and i was wondering if that was somehting i had to order separately.

handy choice too, because i got the Thermalright HR-01 that didn't fit from sidewindercomputers.com as well!

angelkiller, no worries hoss! i'm stoked by the whole build and you told me twice that you couldn't guarantee it'd fit. i'll still take your advice about the 120mm case fan. cool to think i could have a setup like eitheta with only the rear case fan in the whole box! hmm.. can't find either of those brands you like at newegg though. and not at sidewinder either which is a shame because i need to rma and reorder the HSF from them anyway.

thanks again!

[angelkiller]

Most people here would recommend a Nexus or Yate Loon. (Both can be found at Jab-Tech)

• Nexus
• Yate Loon
• Scythe S-Flex (3 models: 800rpm, 1200rprm, 1600rpm)

EDIT: The Nexus I linked to is the black and white one. The orange one is here.

[Erssa]

Nexus has also another b&w 12cm model without the 4-pin molex connector. I just ordered one for 11.50€.

[eitheta]

...the way it reaches out towards the rear case fan like that would be a perfect way to get the fins away from the all the cables that come down right above the cpu!

Yes. It's very much like a taller version of the Silverstone NT01v2. Better thermal performance, from more surface area. They're both made in Taiwan, and it wouldn't surprise me if Akasa & Silverstone source these two designs from the same Taiwanese factory.

question though: does it not come with the pushpins that the Thermalright and stock Intel HSF had? they're not in the pic and i was wondering if that was somehting i had to order separately.

Both use a backplate and through-the-mobo screws & standoffs for mounting. Backplate-style mounting seems more secure than pushpin-style. But you have to pull the mobo out, to swap heatsinks. Everything required is included. Build quality was decent. The fins press-fit onto the heatpipes. The topmost fin didn't make solid enough contact to be useful. I just took it off.
One issue was that the instructions call out four small black rubber washers that go into the stackup of standoffs & HS-bracket. These four washers were missing from my Evo120. Akasa included a separate bag labeled 'spare parts' which contained and extra two each of everything that there's four of -- that still left short by me two rubber washers. But from those two 'spares', I could tell that the Akasa rubber washers were identical to those from the Silverstone NT01v2 kit, so I borrowed the rubber washers from an extra NT01v2 I had. Problem solved, until I find a use for that NT01v2.

Oh, and in the interest of accuracy, I said

MikeC points to a review at FrostyTech.com.

when it was actually in Alec Ross's blog.

[boze]

i'm gonna buy that akasa heatsink from sidewinder and try it. what should i do about how it doesn't come with enough of those rubber washers..?

i hate the idea of having to take out my mobo again.. but the pic at the frostytech.com review that shows how the fins and pipes are purposely off-center to make room for my kind of setup is very encouraging.

fingers crossed..

i'm getting the Nexus fan from jab-tech as well.

and i just ordered the cheapo system-builder version of 64bit vista!

[eitheta]

what should i do about how it doesn't come with enough of those rubber washers..?
!

It's *supposed* to include enough washers. Hopefully yours will. Let me know if it does?