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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:15 am 
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Location: Bellevue, Nebraska
jaganath wrote:
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An external passivly cooled 300w PSU brick


a passive 300W brick? that's gonna have to be pretty efficient not to need a fan.


well i know for a fact that delta electronics already produces a 220w completely passive external brick that outputs a single 12v line. Ive got one, and ive got to tell you, the thermal dissapation design could be greatly improved upon. Its basically just a solid slab of aluminum on all sides that the mosfets are bolted to, with a plastic enclosure. I think with some more aggressive thermal designs and materials, like heatpipes or copper, that a 300w unit is a very real possibility. You also have to remember that it would be external, so it wouldnt be subject to normal PSU temps from an entire computer system, just ambient temps. Also with a single voltage output, its effeciency would be very good, probably over 90%, making keeping 300w cool much more managable.

I truely think its a very real possibility to make one, its just will a company actually make the plunge and develop it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:31 am 
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Hello,

the review is very nice. However the review was made in a 23C room and in summer in my room temp can be 30-33C and my PC requires ~120W DC. What do you think which noise level could be relevant in this case?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:33 am 
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My room is pretty hot nowadays with the late summer heat and humidity, but I'm pretty sure my unit is nowhere as loud as what SPCR got with theirs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:25 am 
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MicroSun wrote:
Hello,

the review is very nice. However the review was made in a 23C room and in summer in my room temp can be 30-33C and my PC requires ~120W DC. What do you think which noise level could be relevant in this case?

Thanks!

That's not an easy question to answer. You can ask the same question about any of the PSUs we review. We always try to review under the same conditions -- 20~23C is the temperature variance generally allowed. However, the internal temperature of the test rig gets much hotter regardless of ambient. 33C was the intake air inside the test box at 350W load for a noise level of 46 dBA/1m... but this was 3 times higher load than your requirement. I'm not certain how the cooling would work with such high ambient temps. Mostly it depends on how hot the actual thermal sensor gets. If it gets hotter than 33C, then a flow of air at that temp should still help with cooling. Still, I think it would be difficult to expect any PSU to actually remain very quiet under such hot conditions; cooling would have to take priority over low noise.

If we could tap into the thermal sensor in each PSU and correlate its readings to intake & exhaust temps and load, then we could have better answers, but this would be a most challenging task (esp as different PSUs use different thermal sensor circuits.)

Note -- if the 120W DC you cite refers to max load, then we can probably assume something closer to 50-60W at idle... which means the PSU fan really should not ramp up much undernormal use even with high room ambient temp

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:12 am 
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Hello Mike,

thanks for the answer! I know it is not an easy question. However in the meantime I could test it :)

I have a Q6600@3Ghz + 4GB RAM + 2x500Gb HDD + DVD + 8500GT VGA
So the DC ~120W in idle and ~210W at full load. At full load with 31C in the room and in a CoolerMaster Elite case (quite small) the temp coming out from the Corsair is ~50C (I have no professional equipment to measure ) so I think it is a bit similar to a 450W load in your test.

The only problem that this hot air cools my CPU as it is 2cm from the PSU cooler :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:21 am 
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MicroSun wrote:
Hello Mike,

thanks for the answer! I know it is not an easy question. However in the meantime I could test it :)

I have a Q6600@3Ghz + 4GB RAM + 2x500Gb HDD + DVD + 8500GT VGA
So the DC ~120W in idle and ~210W at full load. At full load with 31C in the room and in a CoolerMaster Elite case (quite small) the temp coming out from the Corsair is ~50C (I have no professional equipment to measure ) so I think it is a bit similar to a 450W load in your test.

The only problem that this hot air cools my CPU as it is 2cm from the PSU cooler :(

Where are you getting those wattage numbers from?

If you're getting 50C at the exhaust, I'd turn up the speed of the case fan so the PSU doesn't have to pull as much heat through itself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:26 pm 
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Yes the next step is change the case fans.

I have a small Voltcraft energy checker which tells how much the attached equipment needs. In idle with Corsair PSU my system needs only 130W and if Corsair really 80% then my idle DC is ~100W but to be sure let's say the 120W. Am I right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:51 am 
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Aris wrote:
I would challenge you to prove that any system built on current technology would ever demand a power output above your current PSU lineup. With the current trend of power/watt, and power profiles comming down, larger PSU capacities seem to be opposite of current and future needs. Even with SLI setups (which btw have basically been proven to provide no real benefit and only seem to exist to sell aditional units to the wealthy), power requirements are still under 500-600w.


Thanks for the suggestions you made, I will definitely bring them up.

The thing that's tough is imagining a real-world system that will take more power than we can provide isn't that tough.

Imagine next-generation video cards use 250W per card, a 25% increase over something like the HD 2900XT. Also imagine that the physics solution, with a 3rd card, is implemented and becomes the standard for high-end builds from OEMs and System Integrators.

So now we're using an overclocked quad-core CPU, say 130W, plus 3 possible 250W cards, for 880W of power before we count hard drives, fans, motherboards, etc.

Do I think that's likely? No.

But it's possible, and some people want a product to run it.

Whether it's currently feasible to use more than 620W or not, the products are on the market and there is a demand for them. Without meeting that demand, we'd be sitting around allowing our competitors to sell their products to that market while we did nothing.

I want Corsair to be the best consumer power supply company in the world, shooting for anything less than that isn't my style.

This means that we'd have the best products on the market for everyone from you guys who are concerned with silence, efficiency, and a great price/performance ratio, to guys that just want the world's fastest system with the most exclusive parts they can buy, and everyone in between.

As for your comment about the 300W supply, it's a tough sell. Most cases come with "450W" supplies or around there, and trying to get somebody to upgrade from a crappy 450W made with balsa and tinfoil to a rock solid 300W made with industrial grade components is tough because the number is the key selling point.

My goal is to make a product that pleases both the guys who know a lot about the technology like yourselves, and the "newbie" enthusiast who maybe is building his first rig and doesn't really understand everything but wants to learn. We've all been there, right?

Anyway, this forum is fantastic and there are lots of great ideas. A passive external PSU...hmmm.....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:10 am 
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I'd buy a passive external psu, no doubt about it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:43 am 
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Location: UK
Quote:
As for your comment about the 300W supply, it's a tough sell. Most cases come with "450W" supplies or around there, and trying to get somebody to upgrade from a crappy 450W made with balsa and tinfoil to a rock solid 300W made with industrial grade components is tough because the number is the key selling point.


You're absolutely right about that, and it's that which is screwing up the whole PSU market. The number on the PSU has become what MHz used to be for CPU's, and it's just as misguided a way to evaulate the quality of a part. We saw the bastard spawn of that misguided way of thinking in Intel's Prescott CPUs and now we are seeing it in 1.6kW PSUs.

The sad part is, the market for giganto-bloat l33t gamer e-penis power supplies is probably 10 times as big as the market for silent/quiet, highly-efficient, 200-300W supplies.


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 Post subject: Worth switching EarthWatts for Corsair VX450W?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:29 am 
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I was very interested to discover the new Corsair PSU and have an important question based on the review. The conclusion states:

"In real use, at idle in most PCs in most environments, all the Corsair PSUs, the Seasonics and the Antec Trio 550 would have about the same subjective loudness. All would be perceived as very quiet."

I have the EarthWatts 500 that came with the Sonata Designer, which judging by the reviews has very similar loudness to the Trio 550. The EarthWatts is an excellent power supply for sure, though I wish to make my system even quieter and eventually silent. Thus far, I have a passive 7600GT and Intel's stock cooler for the E6750 and don't make inordinate demands on the system's power.

Based on the above quote from the review, would it be worth swapping the EarthWatts for the Corsair? (The audio sample from the review actually sounds louder than either the Antec or the older SeaSonic S12 430.) If switching would make a difference in my system and I have a chance to pick up either the Corsair or the old S12, which should I choose?

Thanks for your help.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:36 am 
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why not just swap the fan in the Earthwatts? your power demands are modest and if you have good case airflow it's not a problem. Nexus 80mm is ideal for this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:23 am 
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jaganath wrote:
why not just swap the fan in the Earthwatts?


That could be interesting but I'd void the warranty and would rather avoid electric shock therapy... opening up a 500-watt power supply is probably a very bad idea for a complete newbie like me.

Is this a simple (and safe) thing to do, and would it make the difference I'm looking for in my system?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
Is this a simple (and safe) thing to do, and would it make the difference I'm looking for in my system?


yes (as long as you take the proper precautions), and yes.

threads to read before starting:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=13289

this one is very important!
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... php?t=6123

and this:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=21654

if the fan leads are soldered directly onto the PSU circuit board it is more difficult; the review may say whether this is the case with the Earthwatts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:12 pm 
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update: VX450W has been 80plus certified.

http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/document ... Report.pdf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:32 pm 
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Redbeard wrote:
As for your comment about the 300W supply, it's a tough sell. Most cases come with "450W" supplies or around there, and trying to get somebody to upgrade from a crappy 450W made with balsa and tinfoil to a rock solid 300W made with industrial grade components is tough because the number is the key selling point.


Well, there is always the seasonic s12/s12ii 330W and 380W to fit that niche,

But i would really like to see a sub 400W modular psu with short cables for HTPC setups. Or alternatively a 300-something in mATX size, where basically there are no quality PSUs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:49 am 
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Corsair VX450 it's not Quiet



http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=44288

deffective ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:38 pm 
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Hello Mike,

Why don't you listen to the recordings of the VX450 included in the SPCR review, and compare them to your unit? I'll bet your unit is defective.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:18 pm 
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I just got a 450vx and its a cracking supply. I can now only hear air and slight reverberation in my p182. I reckon with a bit of damping and more careful fan placement my system will be practically silent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:27 am 
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Upon recieving this unit I was struck by the high quality packaging and the excellent fit and finish of the unit. The only annoyance during installation was hiding the extra cables, but the ones I did use were plenty long enough for my uses. Switching it on, I did notice quite a decrease in noise compared to my old unit. The power consumption was the main reason I bought it, and I figured less power wasted: less heat = better. Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding, so here's the pudding:

(Test mode): (Antec NeoPower 480W modular) / (Corsair vx450)
Vista Idle, no CnQ: 118W / 93W *25W savings!*
Prime 95: 154W / 137W *17W savings!*
3Dmark06 CPU1 : 183W / 147W *36W savings!*
3Dmark06 Canyon: 268W / 224W *44W savings!*

So yeah, the results of the swap are so good, I barely believe them myself. But I am quite sure of my numbers, using a P3 Kill-A-Watt and recording the highest values for load numbers, and lowest for idle number (stupid vista pings your HD constantly)

This power supply rocks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:35 pm 
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Just to confirm, does this have a fan only molex connector - i.e. something to attach a rear case fan to so it's controlled?

Thanks :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:29 am 
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Not as far as I have seen on mine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:33 am 
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i just got one to.
it makes a lot of "woosh" noise.

btw - can i check how much power my system uses?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:05 am 
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Lt_Dan wrote:
btw - can i check how much power my system uses?


Many folks here check power use with either a Seasonic Power Angel or a Kill-A-Watt meter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:30 am 
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there isn't any software that tells you how much power each component take?

also, what is the noise charecter of it?my Zalman 460 was quieter.

my intake is probably around 40c~ - maybe that's why it's noisy?

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[color=blue][size=75] E6600 - 2.4GHhz | Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3P| PQI+Corsair 4GB 800MHz |
Scythe Ninja + stabilizer w/ Fanmate 2 | Corsair VX450W | Gigabyte 8600GTS SilentPipe3 |
SEAGATE 320GB + WD 640GB (soft mounted) | Gigabyte Poseidon w/ (r)Scythe s-flex 1200 (f)Noctua NF-S12B FLX |[/size][/color]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:16 am 
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There's a weird problem with the review.

The sound file for the VX450W at 22dB, 1 meter distance and:
the sound file for 22dB at 30cm distance are identical.

I mean, I think they're the same sound file (even though the file name differs). It seems that the original sample taken from 1 meter's distance isn't available at all, but instead we have 2x the 30cm sample.

I noticed this, when I was comparing the Corsair TX650W at 21 dB (1m) and the VX450W at 22dB (1m). The TX650W sounds very nice and smooth, but the VX450W sounds just awful. I don't think a difference of just 1dB could be that huge (of course, the frequency of the noise can differ and thus the "hearing experience", too, but I don't think that's the case here).

Anyway, I'm buying one of these two PSUs in the next few days, so I'd be most thankful if you had time to look into this :)

(And btw, thanks for the great work you've been doing! I found SPCR only a couple of weeks ago and in that time, the site has been the single most important source of information about silent components for me. I think I'll stick around :) )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:29 am 
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Here are the links to the samples:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/sou ... -22dba.mp3

http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/sou ... -22dba.mp3



I think it's quite obvious. What do you think? Or is it just that my ears aren't sensitive enough? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:36 am 
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FinJones wrote:
There's a weird problem with the review.

The sound file for the VX450W at 22dB, 1 meter distance and:
the sound file for 22dB at 30cm distance are identical.

I mean, I think they're the same sound file (even though the file name differs). It seems that the original sample taken from 1 meter's distance isn't available at all, but instead we have 2x the 30cm sample.

I noticed this, when I was comparing the Corsair TX650W at 21 dB (1m) and the VX450W at 22dB (1m). The TX650W sounds very nice and smooth, but the VX450W sounds just awful. I don't think a difference of just 1dB could be that huge (of course, the frequency of the noise can differ and thus the "hearing experience", too, but I don't think that's the case here).

Anyway, I'm buying one of these two PSUs in the next few days, so I'd be most thankful if you had time to look into this :)

(And btw, thanks for the great work you've been doing! I found SPCR only a couple of weeks ago and in that time, the site has been the single most important source of information about silent components for me. I think I'll stick around :) )

HI FJ,

It's possible there was an error. Can't compare against master files till I get back from IDF / San Fran, will do then. Remind me if you don't see a post here on the matter in the next week.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:05 am 
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Any update on this one?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:36 am 
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new reviews like the Enermax, Nexus and such.
have much lower spl - around 11- 15.
the vx lowest is 21.
how is that there is so much of a difference? are they really ~6db lower?

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