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 Post subject: Zalman ZM80A out but.....
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:11 am 
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Location: London, UK
For those who've been waiting it appears to be out, don't know if anyone is selling it in UK/Europe yet...

http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm80a-hp.htm

Was desperately waiting for this card as my ATI Radeon 8500 does not have mounting holes. BUT am gutted - it seems the ZM80A still needs mounting holes and only resolves the problem of badly placed RAM modules, etc. (which I didn't have in the first place!) :cry:

That Gfx fan is driving me mad! Do any users out there have any ideas what I could do other than installing the ZM1X? I am tempted to buy the ZM80A and glue it to the GPU with arctic silver 3 epoxy and possibly use some form of support/clamp (I don't intend to move the PC)... Anyone done this or have any views on how crazy this may be!?

Are there any other quiet Gfx heatsinks other than Zalman out there?

Thanks for your help!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:16 am 
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Location: London, UK
Just thought I better point out that I am not bothered if removal of the heatsink kills the card as I will only do it for an upgrade...

Now, been thinking about the glue + clamp idea and seems achievable. Here's a link to a potential style of clamp which I could fit over the Zalman:

http://tbx.toolbankexpress.com/browsefull.cfm?CFID=476397&CFTOKEN=98220169&rID=64&ID=2941&catID=1113&RootCatID=938&

It goes without saying that I would fully insulate the clamp with tape. I would also be extremely careful to put just enough pressure (not much needed if already glued) to as not to crush to GPU! I have space in my case for the clamp.

Ideas and opinions gratefully received before I do something potentially stupid!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:47 am 
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I tried the Zalman ZM80 on my GeForce4 Ti4400 and on a 4200. It overheated on 3DMark 2001SE on the 4400 locking up the system displaying checkerboard graphics. It didn't happen on the 4200 though. The heatsink on both boards was hot to the touch during the run. Running an 80mm Panaflo fan reduces it to just warm.

The fact that it got so hot means that there was good thermal conductivity. It just runs to hot on the 4400 passively. Definitely disappointed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:15 pm 
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Location: Hellenthal, NRW, Germany
IF you are absolutely sure you *need* passive cooling on your Graphics card I guess i can't help you, but otherwise, if the main problem *is* the unbearable amount of noise your Radeon8500's original fan might produce then my suggestion would be to either just get a GlobalWin FA420, which is not exatly the *best* sollution out there, but definitely one of the simpler ones. And if your PSU / CPU Fans do produce some noise you will want to worry about those first after that.

Another sollution i might give is something that is available as retail here in germany but you could easily build yourself as well:

All you need is a simple heatsink that is a bit bigger than your R8500 chip and a papst 60mm fan Papst 612 F/2 that you can easily power with just 5V. This fan should be pretty quiet, and the airflow it provides (even at 5V) would be about all you need to cool all modern VPUs decently.

Heres a picture of such a sollution:
https://ssl.kundenserver.de/s34556338.e ... 7900-1.jpg

Hope this helpd a bit... might of course still be too *loud* since there is still some movement involved.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:32 pm 
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I had never heard about the Globalwin FA420, but found a pic and specs of it here. I can't imagine that a 5000 RPM 40mm fan would sound quiet. Maybe you know different?

I like DarkLord's other suggestion, though. I have an old GeForce 256 in one of my machines that had a wickedly noisy fan on it. I thermal epoxied a cheap 1U copper heatsink to it, and then used plastic cable ties to secure a 5V 80mm Panaflo against the heatsink. Not exactly pretty, but it gets the job done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 7:00 am 
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Location: Hellenthal, NRW, Germany
Well yeah the FA420 really is not 'silent' but is the quietest thing i have seen at this size, and if your other sstuff does still prodce some recognizable noise, the FA420 is a very(!) easy and cost effective sollution (at least) to start with.

I'm currently running my radeon 8500LE with such a thing myself.

But I'd favor the other sollution myself, and will switch to that some time or another (once i get the other stuff silent enough so that the GPU becomes recognizable again ;))

I won't go for a 80MM fan though, since that would cost at least 2 whole pci slots, and the 60mm fan attached to a decent but low-height heatsink would only take up 1, just like the FA420. And since i'm looking forward to get my hands on some high-end microATX board with a decently sized (small) case I would need the remaining two PCI slots than.... But hey, this (high end microATX Board with 3xIDE+SATA DDR333) will never happen anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:28 pm 
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You're right about the PCI slots. Luckily, the system I have that card in has a CNR slot with lots of room around it between the AGP and PCI slots, so the GPU HSF just winds up blocking the CNR slot and 1 PCI slot. I knew that CNR junk would come in handy some day.

Incidentally, what kind of a case are you putting the microATX board you're looking for into? Most cases I've seen that require microATX boards are either SFF "Book" PCs or certain Desktop-style cases. I'm really keen on this minitower case I bought that accepts full ATX motherboards.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2002 3:04 pm 
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Location: Hellenthal, NRW, Germany
Well, if there would be such an microATX Board any time soon (and *if* is the key word here), i would go for one of those simple mini towers, that have the same basic structure as your average Midi tower ATX case. two external 5,25" bays and one to two external 3,5" bay(s), since currently I need to have two CD/DVD drives. There are some variations on this kind of case available. E.g. most of the big ones like HP, Dell and so on ship their systems in such microATX cases. The one *I* would peronally really love to have is this one though: http://www.soldam.com/barebone/paradox/detail.html
(Not really an option due to it's price)

Currently I'm on a Mini ATX tower as well. It's the Suntek Bravo (site is in german, sorry, but there are many pictures) - it's not really a good idea to go out and try building a silent system within such a mini tower (PSU mounted right on top of the CPU is not a good thing for overall airflow....), but I guess I'll stick with this (or maybe another nice Mini ATX tower, if I find one whose's size suits my needs) for a while, since there won't be a microATX board that would satisfy me I guess.

So If anyone out there has a good idea for a nice(!) ATX mini Tower that really is small (The Coolermaster ATC-500 e.g. should not be considered 'mini') or for a new 'high-end' microATX board with a nice tower..... I'll be here ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:53 am 
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Thanks for your advice!

Having taken closer look at the card over the weekend, I have concluded that the ZM80 is totally impossible even if there were holes - there seems to be several resistors (or whatever they are!) on the back of the card opposite the GPU...

Anyway I very much like and prefer the idea of the 60mm heatsink with fan! I have a spare Papst 80mm so might get an duct adapter thing instead of a 60mm Fan.

I've never used Thermal Epoxy before - would it be strong enough to hold such a heatsink + duct adapter + 80mm fan (they would be upside down "dangling" from the chip)? Or might it be useful to use some fishing type line for extra support!?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 12:27 pm 
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Location: Hellenthal, NRW, Germany
I'd propably not even try to really 'attach' the 80*80 fan to such a small heatsink.
If you have some decent heatsink that you could attach to your GPU/VPU via Thermal Epoxy. You could just mount the fan in mid-air next to the AGP slot with some pci-slot cover. Somethink like zalman does with their CPU fans.

If you would really like to mount a fan directly to the heatsink i'd say get a new 60-60 fan instead of such a duct.
:)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:56 pm 
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I used Arctic Silver Thermal Epoxy to attach my heatsink to the card. The chip surface was pretty big, but my heatsink is pretty heavy. I'd say that if there's an obvious way for you to use fishing line to help secure it, and you have the fishing line, then go for it. I've seen photos around of massive 80mm heatsinks attached to GPUs with just epoxy, though, so you should be fine. When epoxying, I held the heatsink against the GPU with rubber bands.

Again, something I did with mine was to secure the fan to the PCB of the video card rather than to the heatsink, by looping cable ties through the fan mounting holes and some random holes located on the PCB. That way, the weight of the fan isn't supported by the epoxy, and there's no need to bother with a 60->80mm adapter, which would eat up some PCI slots, no doubt. DarkLord's suggestion about mounting the fan Zalman-style is also a good idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:33 am 
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Location: London, UK
Thanks again for your opinions! Makes excellent sense as always! I think I will go for the a fan blowing from my Zalman bracket.

Have now have had little look around for heatsinks but not sure if I'm looking in the right direction. Basically I've been looking for heatsinks for older CPUs which I can adapt and eopxy on (and also where I can find a retailer):

These 2 are cheap!:
http://www.e-pcs.co.uk/scripts/blowimage.asp?Caller=fn.asp&ir=603
http://www.e-pcs.co.uk/scripts/blowimage.asp?Caller=fn.asp&ir=602

This is a lot more expensive but prob better!:
http://www.akasa.com.tw/akasa/coolers/ak350/ak350.htm
Akasa do some even smaller heatsinks but I need to see if I can find a retailer:
http://www.akasa.com.tw/akasa/coolers/icicle311/icicle311.html

Obviously I would remove those monstrous fans!

Do you think these would work or are they too big/small?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:06 am 
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Just to let you know, have "taken the plunge" and fitted and akasa icicle 311 to my Radeon 8500. Seems to work great but haven't fully tested 3d temps yet. Have posted details on main page...

Thanks for your help and advice!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:12 pm 
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jaypers wrote:
Thanks for your advice!

Having taken closer look at the card over the weekend, I have concluded that the ZM80 is totally impossible even if there were holes - there seems to be several resistors (or whatever they are!) on the back of the card opposite the GPU...




uh?

mmm.. GF4 cards got resistors at the back too but thats not a problem because the zalman back heatspreader do NOT touch the PCB

So if u got a card with holes it will work. :)



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:20 pm 
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zalman 80/80a leaves pretty good space between the heatsink and the board. i had no problem with my 8500 (installaion is another story)... it too had some capacitors sticking out from the board.

by the way clearance was about 15mm if i remember correctly. heatpipe does bend pretty well.... so i really think you can put an aluminum spacer between the zalman heatsink to raise the clearance if necessary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:43 pm
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Location: Sydney, Australia
The Zalman ZM80A-HP is currently available in Australia, so everyone else should have it as well by now,

_________________
www.lownoisepc.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:16 pm 
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jaypers wrote:
Just to let you know, have "taken the plunge" and fitted and akasa icicle 311 to my Radeon 8500. Seems to work great but haven't fully tested 3d temps yet. Have posted details on main page...

Thanks for your help and advice!


How does the 311 fit on the card?

I have a retail 8500 and there are a lot of capacitors pretty near the existing HS. I measured a 60mm x 60mm square (the size of the 311) and it covered a bunch of those caps. There's no way a 60 x 60mm HS would fit on my card. I was going to order one of those 311's but changed my mind after I layed it out on top of my 8500.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:29 am 
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Well I have to admit it is a tight fit! From my measurements, I thought I would have to file a few mms off one of the corners of the 311. However after I took the factory heatsink off and played around trying to fit the 311, it was JUST ok. By this I mean I have probably a 2/3 mms clearance, not much but enough that I was comfortable not filing it down.

I use the ATI own brand AIW 8500DV so maybe my card layout is different to yours... Althought it might still be worthwhile if you only need minimal filing/shaping of the 311.

In terms of performance, well I have not had a problem at all with overheating. I've played a couple demanding games for an hour each and also 3dmark for 15mins and the temps I think are lower than the factory heatsink. Am running the Papst 80mm 11db 19cfm @12V and I reckon I could undervolt it comfortably but still haven't had time to test that yet due to Xmas celebrations!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:37 am 
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I should probably add that to get it to fit, the 311 is stuck on a few degrees diagonally rather than parallel/perpendicular to the gfx chip/card. May not look 'professional' but my PC internals are not on display and it works!

I got the idea from a guy on an overclocking site who loved the 311 and used it to cool a number of chipsets on his mobo as well as his Geforce (3 I think). They are fairly cheap £8=>c$12 in UK so I didn't mind taking the risk it wouldn't fit + I might have been able to use it elsewhere...


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