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 Post subject: AMD DTX small form factor system preview
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:38 pm 
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AMD DTX small form factor system preview

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:11 am 
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Quite an interesting product. It uses a motherboard smaller than micro-atx and crams it in a small case. It is hard for me to guage the size of it, but from your measurements (13x14x4?) it looks pretty tiny.

I believe this is the way that workstations are headed. Kudos for AMD for leading the way instead of jumping on the bandwagon. A couple of observations I had about it:
1) The ram slots are close enough to the CPU to really limit any sort of aftermarket cooling solution; coupled with a maximum height of probably 3.5", this could be tough to cool. Perhaps a new cooler would have to be made from one of the big companies for a premium cooling solution. The HSF being *ducted* or sealed to the outside is pretty nice, so perhaps changing that hsf wouldn't be practical.

2) Large/powerful graphics could not be used in this case.

3) The size of this system would very well lend itself to a pico PSU/power brick. Look at the shuttle SD-11: it used a power brick. Very efficient and space saving. AMD please consider this, especially if you pull big graphics cards and high-power cpus off the table. 120W pico PSU would probably be enough for this..

4) Cooling setup needs to be re-evaluated. Possibly an optional mounting hole that would provide an intake for the expansion slot area. Of course, limiting to low profile cards, the hottest thing you could get probably is a TV tuner. Some of this will be taken care of once the power supply is changed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:41 am 
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I'm rooting for Mini-DTX (I've always been a big fan of Mini-ITX). I hope this stuff catches on and eventually steers the industry towards more power efficient CPUs. Especially for Mini-ITX, I think CPUs shouldn't exceed much more than 25W.

I've been thinking of building a Mini-ITX system with a slightly powerful CPU and using one of those big honkin 1U copper passive heatsinks and a slow small fan (obviously a custom solution, but it can be very compact).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:19 am 
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I'd like to see a compact, cost effective graphics solution that runs HD video and some minor gaming, that has thermal and power efficiency as a big goal. Maybe low profile PCI x16 or something. It isn't that difficult to create something that blows all the integrated stuff away.

I know nVidia finally hinted at a dual-gpu solution for power reduction, but why can't that be built into the chipset?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:58 am 
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djkest wrote:
Large/powerful graphics could not be used in this case.

No kidding. :o A small case has to have small fans. Either it has to have an exceptionally low-power CPU, or it's not gonna have low noise. It seems that DTX - and SFFs in general - are useful for the terminally deskspace-challenged (Japanese urban dwellings etc). Otherwise, a current uATX case with 120mm exhaust and CPU fans wins the noise/cooling contest with great ease.


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 Post subject: Optimistic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:52 pm 
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I have to say I'm really interested in the standard. If space and aesthetics are no issue than larger motherboards and cases are obviously better, but I like the idea of small and sleek. IMO the two expansion, two memory slot format makes DTX/mini-DTX very attractive, especially with a decent set of integrated options (sound, sata, usb, etc.). What's really going to drive this, though, is price. I'd like smaller and could almost live with the limited expansion of ITX, but can't justify spending 3-5 times the cost of a much better equipped mATX board (e.g. the $250 or so for the Albatron board reviewed here).

If someone can make a decent mini-DTX board compatible with existing CPU/memory for $100-125, I'd be very tempted. Until then, I'm with Felger. mATX is the form factor to beat.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Frankly I cannot think of many ways to cool a 65W CPU in that size case. a short, wide, all-copper heatsink, with a 100x15mm (or so) fan mounted on the case above the heatsink might do it. But how much CFM would be required to cool such a short heatsink? I'm guessing at least 50CFM at max CPU usage. That much airflow would not be quiet in that configuration. Of course if the user is willing to tolerate very high temps......maybe it would work.

Me......I'd limit the CPU to a max of about 25W, and put a PICO in it. Might be ok that way.

I've already got a SFF running with about the same width board, using two slots.....a MEGA 651. The case is taller than this setup, and uses a std optical drive and HD. Very small setup, but bigger than this case. Still it's hard to cool with anything over a 60W CPU.

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 Post subject: Hi, it's your helpful marketing dept.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:27 pm 
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When all of your product lines are late and/or not meeting projections, marketing slime does announcements. When they're out of actual products to announce, they start announcing dead on arrival, silly, standards.

I doubt they're even going to get anyone to produce a board, and if they do, it'll just bomb. I hate seeing them get this desperate for attention from industry publications.


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 Post subject: Re: Hi, it's your helpful marketing dept.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:27 pm 
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fri2219 wrote:
When all of your product lines are late and/or not meeting projections, marketing slime does announcements. When they're out of actual products to announce, they start announcing dead on arrival, silly, standards.

The specification was launched at the begining of this year.

fri2219 wrote:
I doubt they're even going to get anyone to produce a board, and if they do, it'll just bomb. I hate seeing them get this desperate for attention from industry publications.

Both TR and Anandtech have a list manufacturers for motherboards and cases.
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13435/3
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsu ... i=3131&p=4

There are 2 big pluses for manufacturers with this spec.
1) There is no need to wait for components. Everything works with the existing ATX or mATX cases and boards.
2) The DTX and mini DTX sizes fit the manufacturing process so as to get the most numbers of boards out of each sub strata i.e. less waste during manufacturing.

This means the manufactuers can increase productivity and have no risk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:18 pm 
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to answer one question from your article:

Quote:
In case you haven't guessed yet, the name DTX naturally follows from ATX and BTX... although perhaps an inquiry should be made about what happened to CTX?

CTX is a monitor manufacturer - see: www.ctxtec.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:05 am 
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I think the thing i like the most about this, is that AMD has decided to pick up the mini-itx form factor and package it in with their new DTX boards. I'm really looking forward to see'ing more options on all of these form factors. What i'd love to see now is a quality case manufacturer like antec make some cases for these form factors.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:05 am 
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kittle wrote:
to answer one question from your article:

Quote:
In case you haven't guessed yet, the name DTX naturally follows from ATX and BTX... although perhaps an inquiry should be made about what happened to CTX?

CTX is a monitor manufacturer...


Not really a valid argument since DTx is the name of a system builder in Florida (that my company uses).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:04 am 
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metal_dragen wrote:
kittle wrote:
to answer one question from your article:

Quote:
In case you haven't guessed yet, the name DTX naturally follows from ATX and BTX... although perhaps an inquiry should be made about what happened to CTX?

CTX is a monitor manufacturer...


Not really a valid argument since DTx is the name of a system builder in Florida (that my company uses).


But perhaps CTX already has a stigma attached to it and AMD wanted to avoid people prejudicing its new form factor... In fact maybe AMD found in focus groups that people simply like the letter D better, its like naming your product with an X, it sounds more modern. Now that I think about it, we should call it the XTX Pro Form Factor!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:36 am 
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Hmm, the first picture says mATX -> DTX but the later says ATX -> mDTX and ATX -> mITX, though it is the same board. Should it not way mATX in all pictures?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:12 am 
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If you compare Picture 3 with Picture 2 - you will see that mini-DTX is narrower than Full DTX (170mm as opposed to 244mm).

IIRC the only motherboard maker that makes Micro-ATX boards that narrow is Soltek (others may have, but that one stands out due to personal experience).

I wonder if Via will use the DTX format to produce; dual C7 desktop boards or boards with Via north bridges.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:04 am 
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Why the AMD hate from that guy?

Do you realize that AMD is a big reason we have core 2 duos right now? Without competition, intel could just sit on their laurels and put out another pentium 4, charge too much for it, and not even care.

Competition drives progress. You better hope that AMD and ATI stick around.

Who came out with the first true 64 bit cpu? How about the first dual-core cpu?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:56 am 
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Any news on the DTX -front? I'm eagerly waiting on these MB:s to ramp up because I have a couple of case mods in my mind..

It will be really disappointing if this form factor is going to end up as same kind of flop as BTX. If Intel and AMD have both tried to evolve the contemporary system and failed, it is pretty hard to see anyone trying to make the next attempt - especially due this time AMD played it safe and focused on maintaining the backwards compability.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:34 am 
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subdependent wrote:
Any news on the DTX -front? I'm eagerly waiting on these MB:s to ramp up because I have a couple of case mods in my mind..

It will be really disappointing if this form factor is going to end up as same kind of flop as BTX.

I used to have the same hopes, but it looks like DTX isn't going to achieve "lift off."

I had a google alert on the topic. There was news for a while, but then interest died off. The last six or so articles were from the Middle East AMD marketing types, but nothing from OEM/ODM sources. I cancelled the alert due to lack of articles.

FWIW, I think that the Intel D201/202 budget mini-ITX systems and the Via PC-1/Everex/Wal-Mart $199 PC efforts have replaced the AMD DTX in the low end. I never saw an interest in the high end.

Stick a fork in DTX...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:40 pm 
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dougz wrote:

Stick a fork in DTX...


Wow! I'm shocked! Shocked and dismayed! Sometimes I hate it when I'm right.

Seriously, I wish AMD would stop burdening itself with unnecessary distractions and get back to kicking Intel's rear. And no, I don't hate AMD, I'm 100% certain I'd be stuck with Tualitin technology and 200W TDP processors if it wasn't for them pushing Intel.

Competition good, monopoly bad.


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